Insel Affe

Can someone please settle this one for me.
1. Is the term Insel Affe used soley to describe British people.
2. Why is it used (seriously)
3. Is it the kind of thing one would hear in decent company
4. Is it used by racists or ordinary people.

Someone is trying to convince me it is harmless.
I personally find it really offensive, they are saying that it isnt racist.
Am I misunderstanding the intent of the phrase?

Although lots of germans cannot differenciate between england,wales,scottland and ireland this term is normaly aimed at the british people.


Same you could ask for the term "tommys", "krauts" and so on...

If you can laugh about the term "krauts" yes, otherwise no!


I suppose by both. Its simply a derogative description for british people.
Not accepted among civilized germans (if there are any... *duck*).

(Insel= Island, Affe=Ape ...conclusion= "Apes (or monkeys) from the island")

The name "Tommy" was actually given to the Brits by the Brits! It's not an insult as such.

Back in WWI, there was no "John Doe" to describe an un-named dead soldier; there was no "Joe Bloggs" to name the common man. Tommy Aitkins was the name used to describe the salt of the earth common man. Also many a boy signed up to go the front using the name Tommy Aitkins if they wanted to get away anonymously.

"Krauts" is a name given to the Germans because of the sour kraut enjoyed by Germans, in much the same way as the French are called "Frogs" because of the unusual dish of frog legs

As for Island Monkeys! Well I'm at a loss for why, but I do find it extremely insulting and anyone who is prepared to say it to my face will be have to have one hand on his mobile to phone his lawyer

Sticks and stones can break my bones
But names can never harm me.

Or was that "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?

The English (I say that advisadly, because the Scots and Irish don't have unique derogatory terms for other nationalities in their own languages ) have many more uniquely derogatory terms for other nationalities, including the Germans, than vice versa, so what's the issue?

When I see the things that get printed in the English press, and the general attutide of many Englishmen earning money here, towards the "Krauts", "Hun", "Nazi's", "Hermanns", etc, I can't see why any Brit should get worked up about the term "Insel Affe", people throw much worse insults at each other here on the board :excl:

I have heard the term used by Germans a handful of times in the 21 years I've been here, you don't often hear "Tommy" either, and never in print. In contrast, "Krauts" and "Hermanns" are common terminology among the commuting workers I encounter here.

The problem of the Hun in the sun didn't stop at VE day. 60 years later, it has only migrated from the beaches of the Channel to those of the Mediteranean. Getting the Hun out of "the Sun", and its competitors, would be a distinct cultural advantage in Britain.

I have never used derogatory words to describe German people.
I consider racism to be one of the lowest forms of ignorance


I simply was asking others opinion. As I stated at the start of the thread I had been assured it wasnt meant in a bad way, and I wanted to know what others thought because I find the term upsetting

I don't find Inselaffe offensive. And I am sure it isn't meant as a racist comment but like most things I suppose it is how you say it.

Didn't say you did Alice, but there are other replies here.


Yes, that was obvious from your post, but why do you find it upsetting? Especially considering that its use in the German langauge is minimal and not publishable, whereas in England the use of derogatory nicknames for Germans is common and often published.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. As I wrote, in 21 Years, I've heard the expression used 3 or 4 times, even here I hear the various English terms for the Germans 3 or 4 times a day... And that often very aggresively.

Here is the BBC on the subject of Xenophobic Nicknames

Given your apparent religious heritage, I would be much more concerned about other expressions.

as an Addendum, to answer your post point by point:


1. Yes, but mostly the English.
2. Nobody knows. It appears to have started out i the british occupied ares after the war.
3. 3-4 times in 21 years is very seldom, and none of them was said in the tone of a british boulevard paper, or football fan.
4. Racists are more concerned with other cultural and religious groupings, and then it is not so much what they say as how they say it.

Thats the same article I came across while googleing for "insel affe".
You are right Mike, the english people have a rich swear-word pool for germans
and particually the yello-press doesnt hesitate to use them.

Terms like "war", "tanks", "battle" and "krauts" before scoccer-games seem to be quite usual...

Nevertheless the word "insel affe" still remains offensive to many english people,regardless if someone is trying to convince alice (according to her starting post) that it's not.

@ Alice...I wouldn't get too upset about inselaffe, compared to some of the names the German's have for other nationalities ( Poles, Turks etc...) this is absolutely harmless. I've been called this many times since I've been here and it's
almost always been in a playful manner, the way I would call a good friend a prat or a d**khead...the only time it get's worrying is when they put the prefix 'scheiss...' before it and even then I'd agree with Dusty in that it depends who's saying it and how...I find the ugly 'Ausländer Raus' much more disturbing but I must say whenever I have spoken to Germans who have said this I'm invariably confronted with the explanation...'oh...I didn't mean you of course...only the others...'... and I will add, most Germans I know are not racists,
but they are very concerened with the way the state treats foreigners in their country, and how said foreigners behave here, as are a lot of Brits in theirs.
Regards
: )lb

Inselaffe doesnt worry me at all...someone mentioned it once, I thought it was hilarious tbh

well said dusty

dont take it to hart, and if you realy must then give as good as you get would be my advice.

inselaffe he go king kong
you tokyo i am godzila

When I first heard this I laughed too. I thought it quite apt - an uncivilised race living on a Island.

If someone pays me enough money I'll tell you what my friends call the Germans.

If you were to identify a German as a "Kraut", to his face, you could expect to receive a fairly negative attitude from him, if anyone calls me an "Inselaffe" to my face, he/she can expect an unconstructive attitude in return.

Name calling is in its very design insulting and derogative; now, I would never call a Pakistani a "Paki" to his face, its basically insulting and down-putting, the same as I would never call a person of African origin “a Nigger�. We are aware of the labels, but to call a person these names to their face is not productive to say the least, so, if anyone calls me names to my face, bugger the proverbial "sticks-n-stones", I feel that they are deliberately aiming at getting my attention... and get it they will.

As for the "Brits are more racist, so its ok line"
Thats just crazy I am responsible for my attiudes and behaviour not that of the rest of Britain. And Im usually the one with the big mouth standing up to defend whoever is being attacked. So I fail to see why its Ok to penalise me.
Quite apart from anything else, being a half breed I can get racism aimed at me from both camps.
And about the Jewish thing. In terms of Germans, in my experiance they are way more likely to stick up for me than Brits if anything is said. And the only stuff that really hurts are full on fascist stuff and KZ jokes. Which I have NEVER had said to me by a German but yes by Brits and Americans.

@Slackmack

danke schön Slack
I agree racism sucks. End of!!!

Alice
P.S. Slack do you really call your lawyer? What can he do?

That was meant to read that he'll phone his lawyer to sue me for whatever pain he feels he may have recieved, not that I would actually hit anyone... where there are witnesses :$

Nein!!!
You arent violent thats not nice.
I wont believe it
I thought you meant you sued him or something

Alice:


I think you are reading a bit too much into all this! I have now heard the term more here on the board, than in my whole time in Germany!

I have heard Germans use the term 3-4 times in 21 years, and none of them were aimed at me. You give the impression you believe you would immediately be confronted with this all the time.

You are less likey to be confronted by an insulting term here, than you would be in England -- I am Scottish, and have lived in England too, and was insulted often in England about my nationality, something which I have never encountered from Germans, even those who assume "English".

So please! Get back into perspective and put this to rest.

There is a major sociological difference between England and Germany:

In England, Xenphobic insults are run-of the mill, in germany they are very much the exception.

It is often embarrasing here, when English tourist talk of "krauts", "huns", etc in a tram or other public places. Comfortable in the belief that, because they can't understand German, the Germans won't understand them. I have never experienced that Germans have gone and complained about that sort of behaviour, they just ignore it. Although they most certainly will entertain their private thoughts.

In what way do you feel penalised?

Behind your back's ok though ?

If I don't hear it, then its ok, if its to my face then they are deliberatly having a go, they know it's not the correct polite thing to do, therefore it is rude and provocative.

@ Alice - I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill!
I am also the only English person in my office and I have been called Insel Affe and also Teebeutel! It's a joke, it's not meant in any offensive way whatsoever!
I have taken the mickey out of them for their penchant for getting up at the crack of dawn and reserving sun beds and they laugh and I've called them krauts loads of times! It's a bit of fun banter - that is all.
Stop taking it seriously, they are not being racist.

I liked the bit in the BBC article that said:


The only respect and sensitivity they show is the unwillingness to settle things via fisticuffs.

@littlebear
No actually Im not
If you look again at the start of this thread I simply wanted opinions specifically on one term. Who used it, why, was it meant as a joke etc
Then the thread was taken off at a tangent and British tabloids, british racists and my being Jewish were dragged into it .
How that is relevant to insel affe I will never know.
I simply responded to the things that were posted.
I appreciate the insights of zwackel, slack, yourself,able, hellie and others.
Anyway it wasnt said at me it was being said about a group of people sitting away from us and I heard it.

Come on guys. You are always going to get racism, especially in times of hardships. All those bloody foreigners nicking our jobs, pushing down our wages.

We're all different. Why should we pretend that we are not. As people tend to be more attracted to, more interested in people who look similar, a certain amount of racism is natural. I don't think I'm racist, but if some black guy thumps me I'll probably call him a "black bastard". Does that make me more racist than the bloke who gets thumped by a bald bloke and calls him a "bald bastard"? I don't see the difference myself, apart fom the fact the political correctness lobby hasn't got round to addressing the plight of baldies yet.

My wife and her best friend repeatedly describe me as an Inselaffe. I am not sure it used as seldom as some think. Still, it doesn't really bother me. Better than being called a Sheep-shagger by the English.

I think its safe to assume that this is a clear example of affectionate use of the term.
Well Im assuming your wife likes you.

I never knew that monkeys shagged sheep.

Well its certainly an education, this forum.

I went on holiday to Wales in the obligatory bright orange VW campervan when I was a kid.
Must say the only sheep sex I saw was one sheep to another.
I musnt have been paying close enough attention

So why do you think Shepherds always wear wellies?

You see, if you put the sheep's back legs down the wellies, they can't run away, and they can't kick either. If you then hold both front legs up in the air together in one hand , you have the other free for the shears.

But if the shepherd was to put the front legs into his wellies, he wouldn't strain his back bending over.

Ahh, but the trick is to hold the front legs as high and as close to the body as possible, then you can fleece it in one go.

So you know my ex too! I wondered what she was up to these days!

I think will just agree with them next time when they say 'Insel Affe' to me in the office. I know what they mean now! It's better to go quietly than to put up a fight.

Anyone seen Phil Drabble recently? I suppose he's gone to the big 'one man and his dog' show in the sky by now.

What do you mean, they don't gather round the TV in Germany to watch a whistling welshman give telepathic commands to a dog which moves a group of sheep around as if by remote control! What's strange about that?

One man went to mow, went to mow a meadow, one man and his dog 'spot',
a bottle of pop, two baked beans and a sausage roll, went to mow a meadow!

And would you believe it, I just found out on the net that:

Rearranging the letters of 'Phil Drabble, presenter of 'One Man and His Dog'' gives:

A London sheepfarmer nobbed his darling pet.

If ANYONE ever complains about my quiz anagrams again I'll... :doh:

I think 'Insel Affe' is the funniest insult I've heard for a long time. If a German called me that I would laugh, & reply - "Yeah, & proud of it". Then watch the consternation.

Personally, I would be much more insulted to be called a Scots git (replace with English/Welsh/Irish as applicable)

Insel Affe is also one of my wife's favourites. Another one is pointing out the "fact" that England has a damp foggy climate with a limited gene pool. We can trade insults about our respective countries (she is German) quite nicely and all in good humour. It often ends wih "...who won the war..." and "...we were outnumbered...".

One of the things my German friends love about the British is the fact that we can take the mickey out of ourselves and not worry about it. Trading "insults" in british culture is often a way of showing friendship. How many times have people said "You lucky bas'''''...". If a group of English/Welsh or Scottish friends traded insults none would think anything of it. If they were not friends and traded those insults at a rugby match the result would be very different.

It all depends on the group you are with. In a Sie setting I wouldn't expect it. In a Du setting I would verbally give as good as I get, or at least try to...