Buying a new car under €20K

We are thinking of buying me a 2nd small car, (Peugeot 206, Golf, Colt similar) We haven't bought anything new for years and have had enough of leasing. Everyone says, "money talks" but I would like to know how much is realistic to expect a dealer to knock of the list price when we are prepared to put cash on the table?

Can you also expect a discount if you were to finance the purchase?

Any experiences?

Hi coloniagirl,

We've just bought a new Colt (great car, by the way) and while we didn't get a discount as such, we got an interest-free finance offer over 6-years! Under these conditions coughing up the cash to pay for everything at once just wouldn't have made sense.

Regards,

Jan

If you finance it, it's easier for them to hide it if they're not giving you a decent price, but you should still get a discount. If anything it's better for them because you are paying their bank interest. But give us the numbers when you have them - list price, expected discount, interest rate, monthly repayments, end baloon payment etc.
And don't be pushed by the salesmen. Always be prepared to walk out - he needs you more than you need him.

Woodside agree with you on that the Colt is a great car. Have you got the latest model? we have one before that and are really pleased with it.

@colonialgirl if you buy a car through a garage make sure you get them to register it and number plates on it for free too... plus any other little extras you need like warning triangle and red cross kit

I work for the sales organisation of a large German car manufacturer but without employee disocunts there is no way i would buy a new car. Doing so is just like throwing money out of the window. Depreciation over the first 12-18 months is enourmous and in no relation to the actual reduction in substance. Don't get swayed by the marketing, buying new cars is purely a prestige thing and most people just use their cars for transport (Showing of to the neighbours is what our marketing deprtments make you believe you should be doin).

Save yourself some €€€€€€ and buy a good second hand car, there are plenty of good ones to chose from. The build quality and reliabilty of many manufacturers means you can get some damned good quality used vehicles.

I good tip would be to try and buy an ex-employee car. Employees at my company tend to sell their cars after about 8-11 months. You can even sign sales contracts on car they haven't even taken delivery of yet and can also specify the spec.

Let me know if you are interested in such a deal.

Does your company know you are posting here giving away the secrets?

I'm in the market for a BMW 1 series. What can you offer me?

Along the lines as Owain was saying, diplomats and such like get to buy new cars which are then returned to the dealer six months later (get their money back and then replace it with another new car). The cars are returned in A1 condition to ensure they get their full money back. Not sure how the dealer then goes about selling the, then used (not that you would notice), car but it is probebly worth asking them.

We have been able to do this while living in France but all good things must come to an end

As self-employed my wife leases our car, the cost of which we can completely offset against our tax bill.

about 18% off new list price for a 6 month old car with 8-11,000 km.

Hi bbulldog,

Yes, it's the new Colt, but before that I had a 16-year old Colt. It had neither airbags nor ABS and some repairs would have had to be done as well, which is why I decided to get something new, but it never let me down in the nine years that I had it.

About the advice not to buy new cars: That's probably true from a purely economic point of view, but sometimes irrational decisions feel good, too. :-) Besides, from what I've seen when going car shopping, small to mid-sized cars do not seem to lose as much in the first year as the more expensive ones. I guess this is because companies and business-people who sell their cars after one two years tend to drive BMW, Mercedes or the like rather than small Japanese cars. So I would not have saved that much by buying a second-hand one (that's what I'm telling myself, anyway).

Regards

Jan

If you want a Mercedes, go to their Werkswagen part of the webpage. We saved a packet on a year old car, It was over a 50% saving of the sticker price of a 2004 version. So, we got a 2003 car last year with just under 12,000 km's on it for a steal. It came with a two year warranty, free carphone, air conditioning,navigation system and tons of other extras that would normally cost a ton. They are also required by law to tell you if it has been involved in an accident. After knowing that they still made a profit by selling this car to us I would never buy new again.

If you have a sense of adventure than import a car into Germany, it's well known that German list prices are some of the highest in Europe, baring England.

Recent TV show interviewed a Polish Dealer, German made car 5000€ cheaper than in Germany, You can easily save 30% on a new car.

We are in the process of doing these, thinking of purchasing a Toyota Yaris price in Germany, 18,500 our price 14,800, not bad.

Ordering it through EU Auto Discount. Click on Car configurator.

Only complaint is its underpowered , but at 50mpg I can put up with that

At the moment you can negotiate discounts of up to 5000€ without too much difficulty as the dealers are so desperate to shift cars.

ADAC has printed a table showing how much discount you need to get to beat the cheap interest rates that you are often offered when buying through the manufacturer's bank, when you normally have to pay list price.

Great thread this. PLease keep up the good input, and if you secure a real good bargain, then lets all hear about it.

My need is for a Berlingo, which my ex-partner owned. Great all-rounder, but fo some strange reason cannot be purchased with an automatic gearbox. Second choice would be a Reault Scenic. Any better suggestions for a MPV with auto-gearbox.?

The VW Touran compares well against the scenic and comes in Automatic.

Found this site quite good at comapring makes.

WhatCar?

Another good site

Wisebuyers

My firm has arranged discount for us at BMW. 15% off list price for a brand new car. Oooh, can't you just smell the leather.
15% and they're still making a profit!!

@RAM: bit of a sweeping statement: "At the moment you can negotiate discounts of up to 5000€ without too much difficulty "

The disocunt will depend entirely on the new retail price, brand, model, age (recently released model or soon to be replaced), availbale stocks etc etc etc. I am not saying you can't get a discount of €5000 but the amount in each case can not be written in stone.

You have better chances of a decent up-front discount if you are flexible on model, colour, engine, spec etc. and are willing to buy the particular car that the dealership or manufacturer is currnently pushing.

One thing to remember is that up-front discounts are not the only thing to take into account. Eventually you will want to sell your car and get another. The re-sale value of the car WILL reflect any up-front discounts you may get. So make sure you take into account the full life-cycle cost including re-sale. Don't buy a dog of a car from a dealer just because you get a good discount, you may not be able to re-sell it easily later without also discounting.

And be wary of used-car guides like "Schwacke" because some manufacturers "fix" the resisual values that are quoted in the Schwacke-guide. When new models are launched there is no existing market for them to judge and have to go on experience and other data to predict residual value. The "other data" is basically manufacturers artificially fixing the residual value by guaranteeing a particular buy-back rate for Lease-vehicles. A dealer will sell vehicles (predominantly to companies) who lease the vehicles for 3 years. The manufacturer guarantees the residual value, thus enabling theb house Bank or a leasing company to offer a very competative leasing-rate. This buy-back value is the residual that is shown in the Schwacke-guide. The dealer has to re-sell the car on the open market as a used car and these prices are dictated by market forces and are invariably lower than the guaranteed residuals. The manufacturer credits the dealer the difference. Mercedes are the master of this deception.

I just bought my very first car one year ago (that's when daddy stopped paying, figuring I was making the same amount of money as he was per month) and I went for a brand new one since the finance deals through the garaga in Belgium are so good for the moment. 3 years interest free and I bought it with a 21% discount. Got myself a Citroën C2, with the whole bejingle on it, airco, navigation, good music installation. I think when you drive 30 000k per year a good car is what you need, seeing as you spend so much time in it. And the illogical feeling of driving a car that nowone else has driven beofre, well, that's just great.

so why did you end up buying a Citroen C2

Jokes aside: don't forget that whatever discount you get will be reflected in the residual value, so although 21% is prima facia a very good discount, it is only when you come to re-sell do you know how good it really was. They are obviously struggling to shift these cars new and are hence discounting heavily. Citroen will probably also be engaged in "Tageszulassungen" and other tricks which will all have a knock-on effect on the used vehicle market.

Of course, if you plan to keep the car till it falls apart and has no re-sale value, then this is of no consideration.

I have found that the best value is gained by buying a 6-12 month old car (let someone else waiste their money on the initial depreciation) and keeping it for 2-3 years (after that you have to start thinking about more costly repairs and up-keep).

Count yourself lucky, one area where Renault are way behind the times is decent automatics. High time they changed that.

PS I'm not anti-Renault, I have a Laguna at present (and my wife a Twingo) and I would have preferred an automatic, but not with that performance loss!

Some guy coming the other way in the Praktiker car-park a few months ago in an obviousl brand new Laguna actually flagged me down to ask if mine was an automatic and then went on to moan about what anabsolute disater his was!

Yes I'm aware it's a bit sweeping, and also, I forgot about his 20k€ limit anad I don't think you'll find a 5k€ discount under that price. However, I just meant to point out that at the moment good discounts are available if you make the effort. Finally, like all good advertisers, I did say "up too"!

Check out EU Auto Discount they have quite a few Peugeot's in the 12 to 15 thousand range.

I'm in the process of buying a Toyota Yaris Verso.

My only complaint is that I'm going back to a stick shift, lazy American that I am i don't like sticks. They do offer an automatic but only in petrol, not diesel

Thanks everyone for your input. All your suggestions have been very helpful. Basically, I don't really care what sort of small car I get just as long as it is good value for my €s. I think I will be doing a lot of comparisons and certainly will be looking at the Jahreswagens, particularly the Mercedes A class. I still like the Mitsubishi Colt or maybe even the Space Star. Got to have some room for all my shopping and as my 2 boys have now grown to big strapping young men, got to have room for them in the back as well. Also, as the eldest is 18 he'll be getting his licence soon so I suppose I'll need a car he won't be ashamed to drive as well. I'll let you know what I end up with. Once again many thanks for your suggestions.

are you more interested in a car with all the gizzmos like aircon, GPS-navigation, fancy alloys, Harmon-Karrdon stereo with 12 speakers or are you more interested in the style of the car and the way it drives?

I bought a Honda Jazz last year, it cost me 13000 Euro (not a import) all in which included metallic paint, Air con and CD player. It's has loads of space, large boot for such a small car. Seats can be folded completely flat or lifted up. I can easily fit 2 large bikes in the back with the seats down. Came with a 3-year warranty although along with Toyota, Honda has one of the best reliability stats.
Completely happy with the car. Also gives on average of 100km per 5.8litre.

I just took a look at the Honda web site, was leaning towards the Toyota Yaris Verso but will take a close look as the jazz, got some great reviews as well and 5,4l per 100 is almost as good as the Yaris diesel, quiet an impressive feat.

Given a choice I'd like to test drive an automatic, make sure it has enough power.

This might help...

4car - Honda Jazz

By the way, what happened to the Chris half of robandchris...?

I had the use of one of these for the weekend, it was brand new and I thought its my lucky day. I originally had booked a VW Golf as a hire car and was given one of these cars to travel from Ulm-Paderborn-Ulm, it was the worst driving nightmare of my life. The car was the most uncomfortable thing I have had the misfortune to drive, I've driven some shit in my life, but that thing was at the top of the pile! Now when I hire a car, I ask for a car in the Golf price/size catorgory, but stipulate NO MERC A CLASS

Well we went out looking at cars this morning. It was such a nice day... Went to Opel and Mercedes but do you think we could get any sales service? Why is it when you don't want help the sales people they are all over you like a rash and when you really want attention they leave you for dead?

Thanks Slack for your enlightened comments. I'll keep them in mind if I can ever get to have a test drive.. Actually we saw some nice Vectras (2 years old) and I rather liked an Astra Sport, (Vorfuhrwagen). I am driving my husband mad because I can't make up mind what I want.

A former colleague of mine said exactly the same kind of things as you, Mack. He was so proud when he took delivery of it (kudos value) but within 2 months he'd changed it for a Subaru Outback. Sounds like a strange swap but he was well chuffed with the new car.

I would agree with Slackmack as well. I was given the opportunity to test drive the A-class, VW Golf, Audi A3, Alfa 147, Opel Astra, Ford Focus and the BMW 1-series on a test track in Leipzig.

The A-class was by far the worst ride for the money. Surprisingly good, for me anyway, was the Alfa, which had the best handling of all the front wheel drive cars. The VW and the Audi were good and solid, allbeit boring, with the Audi being a little harder on the suspension. The Astra and Focus were "less good" than the VW and the Audi.

I had the opportunity to test a "Vauxhall" Vectra whilst in Edinburgh for a weekend (the same weekend that Wales thrashed Scotland...had to get that one in ) and was plesently surprised with the ride and responsiveness, although the design isn't really my cup of tea and the build quality looked and felt dodgy. If i had the choice between a 2 year old Vectra and a 3 year old Passat, I think would go with the Passat, even though used Vectras are usually a better "bargain" than the Passat.

Have a look at Toyota Corollas. They may not be the flashiest cars on the market but they are probably the most reliable car and a much safer bet as a used car.

Vorführwagen and Tageszulassungen can be very good bargains. The best time to look out for "Tageszulasungen" is in January, although you will also find them around all year, especially at the end of each quarter. Many importers register cars to bump up their market shares (i used to worlk for one that did this very regularly). You get a "used" car with only delivery mileage on it.

I bought one of these, I paid DM17,000 for a brand new Rover 400 when BMW offloaded the company onto the Phoenix group. (I don't care if Rover has gone bust, my car is not a status symbol).

i am sure they are even better value now.

edit: correction: cheaper, not better value.

if your looking for some cheap reliable and tons of space I'd suggust a Toyota Yaris Verso, not very fast, but tons of room, cheap and unlike some much more expensive German brands, very reliable. And with diesel 55 mpg!!!

>New price 10,500 up.

best part were the seats fold right in the floor!!!, they don't fold over but go right in the floor. main negitave, under powered, had to fight to get to 140 on the autobahn.

unfortunatly for me I'm going to pass, I need soemthing bigger.

Well if you are not in that much of a hurry & you can wait till September go to the Frankfurt motor show, then you can check out all the latest models, they also give some pretty good discounts if you order at the show, might have to wait a while to get the car though :doh:

My husband also drove a rental A class & also said it was bloody awful, mind you he has an M3 & doesn't like that much either