I have been wondering whether I can opt out of the Rentenversicherung and continue to contribute to my UK pension (note: I am employed by a German company on a German contract)
any thoughts anyone?
You are viewing a low-graphics version of this page. Click the headline to view full version:
German Pension - Can you opt out?
No way to opt out as an Angestelter, AFAIK.
Sorry you are stuck with it. The payments you make in the German system are not for yourself, but for those people who are now pensioners. This is, of course, the reason that the system is collapsing, the number of pensioners is rising and the number of people paying in is falling. If the Government let people opt out and do their own thing, then thousands would and the system would collapse.
Oh, I thought we'd already established on here that the system is infact collapsing solely because of selfish childless couples!
But it's not all doom and gloom paying here. One thing to point out, Jordigo, is that if you are an EU citizen, you are entitled to take your BVV contributions with you wherever you go within the EU. So, for example, my pension contributions are coming with me to Scandinavia (well, not phyiscally of course) but I will have a "Rentenanspruch" here in Germany when I retire, even though I probably won't be living here. Ergo, as long as you stay here and pay your dues for a few years (is it 4years - perhaps someone knows the exact min. requirements) you will get paid pension from Germany when you're an old fart!
But it's not all doom and gloom paying here. One thing to point out, Jordigo, is that if you are an EU citizen, you are entitled to take your BVV contributions with you wherever you go within the EU. So, for example, my pension contributions are coming with me to Scandinavia (well, not phyiscally of course) but I will have a "Rentenanspruch" here in Germany when I retire, even though I probably won't be living here. Ergo, as long as you stay here and pay your dues for a few years (is it 4years - perhaps someone knows the exact min. requirements) you will get paid pension from Germany when you're an old fart!
One thing you can do is continue to make voluntary NI contributions in UK. There has been some discussion about this in previous threads.
Hi all,
a german collegue remarked the other day that it was possible to recoup all compulsary pension contributions if you became self employed. Anyone know of such a loophole, I smell bullshit. Would be great though I could leave this misrable country tommorow
a german collegue remarked the other day that it was possible to recoup all compulsary pension contributions if you became self employed. Anyone know of such a loophole, I smell bullshit. Would be great though I could leave this misrable country tommorow
thanks folks. what I know is that if you leave the EU permanently (regardless of whether you are an EU citizen) you can recoup all of your contributions in cash and lose all "rentenanspruch", I was just hoping I could maybe do some "regulatory arbitrage" here. sadly not...
would be interested in the self-employed loophole tho if anyone has the lowdown
would be interested in the self-employed loophole tho if anyone has the lowdown
Jordigo,
That may have been possible in the past but I think over the last few years Germany has signed social security agreements with countries like Australia and the US which means a pay out may no longer be possible. About 8 years ago we made enquries about taking a pay out to America and that would have given us a large sum cash in hand but as I said I think since then social security agreements have been made which means, in our case if we went back to Oz we could get our German pension paid in Oz.
That may have been possible in the past but I think over the last few years Germany has signed social security agreements with countries like Australia and the US which means a pay out may no longer be possible. About 8 years ago we made enquries about taking a pay out to America and that would have given us a large sum cash in hand but as I said I think since then social security agreements have been made which means, in our case if we went back to Oz we could get our German pension paid in Oz.
Jordigo, I was just on the phone to my tax consultant and she mentioned that if you have not contributed here for 5 years, you can claim back your pension payments (Rentenvericherungsanteil)
The best thing to do is get yourself down to a tax agency/consultancy/accountant and have a chat with them, as it does seem you can get your money back. If you need an English speaking one, just PM me and I'll send you the details of one.
You learn something new everyday, as they say!
The best thing to do is get yourself down to a tax agency/consultancy/accountant and have a chat with them, as it does seem you can get your money back. If you need an English speaking one, just PM me and I'll send you the details of one.
You learn something new everyday, as they say!
even as an EU citizen living in another EU country??
Yes.
Found the below from link
Its dated sometime after June 2003
By way of an example of how workers are disadvantaged, take Mr Smith, who is a water industry consultant. He has had his own UK company, through which he provides his services. He earns £70,000 per year and makes contributions of £10,000 to his UK personal pension plan. Mr Smith sees an opportunity in Germany and moves there, expecting to stay for a few years.
During his time in Europe he makes contributions to the German social security system, but would like to continue paying contributions to his own UK personal pension plan, if he can get tax relief on the contributions. As soon as he goes to work in Germany, he will become a German resident and will cease to be a UK taxpayer. When in Germany, he and his company will become liable to pay social security contributions totalling 19.5% of his salary in Germany to cover pensions and unemployment.
As far as his UK personal pension is concerned, while he can continue to contribute, his payments are limited to £3,600 per annum. However, these contributions are not tax-deductible in Germany, so that he will be pay these contributions out of fully taxed income. After four years he decides to return to the United Kingdom. His contributions to the German pension scheme are not sufficient to enable him to qualify for a German pension, so Germany will make a refund of his contributions.
Its dated sometime after June 2003
By way of an example of how workers are disadvantaged, take Mr Smith, who is a water industry consultant. He has had his own UK company, through which he provides his services. He earns £70,000 per year and makes contributions of £10,000 to his UK personal pension plan. Mr Smith sees an opportunity in Germany and moves there, expecting to stay for a few years.
During his time in Europe he makes contributions to the German social security system, but would like to continue paying contributions to his own UK personal pension plan, if he can get tax relief on the contributions. As soon as he goes to work in Germany, he will become a German resident and will cease to be a UK taxpayer. When in Germany, he and his company will become liable to pay social security contributions totalling 19.5% of his salary in Germany to cover pensions and unemployment.
As far as his UK personal pension is concerned, while he can continue to contribute, his payments are limited to £3,600 per annum. However, these contributions are not tax-deductible in Germany, so that he will be pay these contributions out of fully taxed income. After four years he decides to return to the United Kingdom. His contributions to the German pension scheme are not sufficient to enable him to qualify for a German pension, so Germany will make a refund of his contributions.
Woohhooo!! it looks like its possible to get refunded however only under certain circumstances; check out
http://www.social-security.de/refunds.htm
and good luck
http://www.social-security.de/refunds.htm
and good luck
Um
I've checked out the site mentioned in the previous post.
And as I'm English it states I am not entitled to a refund. I worked over here for a little over 3 years so I have paid in over 10000 Euro during that time.
As I've been unemployed for the past 10 months it looks very likely that I will have to move back to the UK shortly as my unemployment benefits will stop in 2 months. I'm also not entitled to a German pension, as you need to pay in for at least 5 years to qualify.
So does anyone know, do I just lose all of what I’ve paid in?
I've checked out the site mentioned in the previous post.
And as I'm English it states I am not entitled to a refund. I worked over here for a little over 3 years so I have paid in over 10000 Euro during that time.
As I've been unemployed for the past 10 months it looks very likely that I will have to move back to the UK shortly as my unemployment benefits will stop in 2 months. I'm also not entitled to a German pension, as you need to pay in for at least 5 years to qualify.
So does anyone know, do I just lose all of what I’ve paid in?
You can write to the pension people for an answer.
they also produce a booklet in English to tell you your rights.
I believe its now 2 years minimum payment period - after that you get the pro rata german pension at german retirement age.
hth
they also produce a booklet in English to tell you your rights.
I believe its now 2 years minimum payment period - after that you get the pro rata german pension at german retirement age.
hth
speaking of pensions
any idea how much you'd recieve if you retired here. I've heard that its 70% of your wage, but up to how much.
Of course over time it will slowly decrease.
any idea how much you'd recieve if you retired here. I've heard that its 70% of your wage, but up to how much.
Of course over time it will slowly decrease.
You are viewing a low fidelity version of this page. Click to view the full page.