Breaking with national stereotypes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4263755.stm

German journalist Thomas Kielinger on what he sees as UK and German non-conformity with national stereotypes...

As I creep up to the tender age of 28 and find myself making up one of those people counted in unemployment statistics, and being - quote from Arbeitsamt - "over-qualified" for my age, is it no wonder my decision to get the hell out of this country took about 1 second to make?! I shall watch from afar as everything here goes slowly down the pan.

How ironic that Schadenfreude is a German word.

Jean-Pierre

You are quick NL, our decision took at least 2 seconds. Let's hope I can find a job fairly quickly.

Like angst and kindergarten ...

Achtung! Zeitgeist really takes on a completely new eigenwert, when you pack your rucksack and shlep it to a new lebensraum. Whether poltergeist or wunderkind, to move from one hinterland to another is not verboten. You just never know if it's going to be götterdämmering or delikatessen.

Affen, affen geil! As Bruce & Bongo like to say

Bäst av tur på din ny levnad!

My decision took about a day of searching for an IT job in Germany and talking to the Arbeitsamt, that was enough for me. I Lost my Job at the end of January, and applied for a handfull in the UK, within days I was offered a new position in Berkshire. Now in the process of moving, there are certain aspects of Germany that I will sadly miss, but for the first time in around 5 years I feel as though it's the right thing to do (Been contemplating it for this time).

Germany is sinking fast, the people are becoming more and more aggressive in their fight to hold on to their jobs, the prices have been spiraling out of control for 3 years now, but the pay has remained at pre-euro standards. It's a real shame, because I can remember a much better time when living in Germany was fantastic and economically sound. Those days are sadly gone.

So I'm now based back in Blighty and glad to say that Britain (Warts 'n' all) has my seal of approval and I would highly recommend the same move to any ex-pats sitting on the fence. Get out now, it's going to get a lot worse before there's even a hope of it improving.

My God we are all a bunch of depressives today!

"We are all doomed!!!" - its just like Dads Army

I agree, Germany is become too static and stagnant and life can be difficult here - I admit I've only been here for 6 months, but I never planned on staying any longer than 2-3 years when I moved here anyway and am happy to take the rough with the smooth. Though if my job packed in then I'd be off like a shot probably.

But I put up with the frustrations of day to day life here as I enjoy the experience of being abroad, picking up a language, etc. Can the Germans be madly infuriating with alarmy regularity? Yes. Does the system here piss of my German friends as much as it does me? Yes. Can they be pretty unfriendly? Yes. Do I very seriously miss not being able to pop into the pub after work with colleagues ala UK? Betcha. Will I move away from here glad that I came, but also relishing the next challenge knowing that it could never be as difficult as life here? Probably, unless I decide to go to France I guess...

I also know too many of my friends who are in their late twenties, with various bachelor, master and postgraduate degrees who are finding it bloody tough in the UK getting anything other dross jobs. Not to mention the house prices etc.

But to those on here that are moving on for work, good stuff, go for it. For those who are fed up with life in the Fatherland and want to move back to the UK - go for it. But at least give some of the rest of us the chance to see some of the good sides of life here!

Well I should say that the thought has been at the back of my mind for some time now but for various reasons I was "stuck" here. However, since I took voluntary redundancy and got a nice little "reward" for it, I am now able to do as I please! The plan was to stay here and stick it out, perhaps set up my own business, but what the hell for?!?! We have no family here, and currently no future. I don't think any of us who decide to leave this country are being pessimistic. We're just being more optimistic about our futures! Believe me, if I had anything to stay here for, I would. But my other half is a Swede and I'm a Brit, so the sensible thing to do is be in one of our home countries, for the family's sake too.

Hey JonnyBoy, I wish you all the best here. There is so much to experience and it's a great place to live, but it's no good being anywhere if you don't have an income (like me at the mo). Of course, I could scrounge off the State and live of everyone else's taxes, or, I could get pregnant thus providing future tax payers for us all and scrounge even more money off the State in Kindergeld, but that's not going to help me or anyone else is it. And I'm not moving back to the UK. I'm off to the land of cheapo flatpacks, elks and Smörgåsbords

Tack för din lyckönskan Mike_a När jag ligger på stranden i sommar ska jag tänker på dig

Sounds good NL.

I will happily move somewhere else in Europe. Now, how do I go about getting made redundant and paid off. Hmmmm.

At the end of the day all of us on this site are economic or love or culture migrants - situations change and so the attractiveness of places changes with it.

Ps - hope you didnt see the article in the FT last week about Sweden planning to increase its (already highest in Europe) tax burden...

Pps - if Sweden is actually full of wanton blondes, do be sure to come back and tell all us single guys...

No I didn't see that article and I've not heard anything about it, however, it doesn't surprise me. Nevertheless, I was paying about 49,5% tax + Nebenkosten here, and unless I'm a high earner in Sweden (which I doubt I will be at the moment) I won't be paying anywhere near that. I will be paying around 6EUR for a beer tho :doh: Thank goodness Denmark will only be a stone's throw away!!!

It is true that there are alot of blonds up there (men and women) but they reckong that in about 100 years they will all have died out due to the immigrants... Anyway, do you want me to send a full report back with pics, say from our local nudist beach? Nah, I didn't think so. Don't want to bore you!

Sounds handy for Ryan Air...

Man kan inte lära gamla hundar sitta, NL, dock i winter erinra sig:

När dig gå där den hundar gå, äter inte den gul snö :excl:

I am working here as a language assistant in a Realschule. My cultural training was almost nil - Yay, British Council - and I hate living here. When I first arrived nobody talked to me. The headteacher said we should meet up after the autumn hols to discuss some lessons. I was run over the day before I went back so I turned up late the next day because my bike was creamed. She screamed at me in her office that I was late - even though she had not specified a time. I didn't have a timetable so I wasn't even 'late'.
In November I got food poisoning and phoned the school to say I would be taking one day off. She told me that without a doctor's note I could go whistle. There weren't even lessons that day. She made me go on an outing to the ice rink in Bremen. I have since been told that I can self-certificate for 2 days without seeing the doctor - which I still don't know how to do.
The last five months have been hell. I can't wait to return to Blighty. This country and my job has completely killed all my wishes to travel and experience new cultures. I won't do anything with my German degree now. 101 days to go.

This is a new one on me, would anyone care to explain. As far as I am aware you need a "Gelbeschein" to take even a single day off sick and even visiting the doctors office may require an attendance note.

Depends on the "Betriebsvereinbarung", Slack. AFAIK, teachers don't need to have a Sicknote for 1 or 2 days -- At least, those I know don't seem to, they just phone in that they are sick.

Of course that might only be the case for "Beamten".

There certainly seems to be more to it than meets the eye:

I don't understand how anyone can study German to degree level, without any further knowledge of the culture of the country and its peoples. Any language student I have known has also studied the relevant culture.

I was also under the impression that the purpose of the British Council is to bring British culture to Germans, not vice versa. Sounds like barking up the wrong tree to me.

My kids always had the same timetable all year. School does generally start at 8:00 here, so: if in doubt?

I'd like to meet the employer that understands people arriving later, when they know in advance that the journey will take longer.

When it appears everything is coming your way, you just have to wonder if you might be on the wrong side of the road.


Sounds like a giver-upper looking for self-justification.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try, and try again!

suchmichnicht - if it's any consolation I hated the first half of my compulsory year abroad as well. You really sound miserable and I just wanted to say lots of people feel like this. It got better for me as the weather got better and I spent all the time I could outside sightseeing instead of being stuck in the very horrible room I was renting. A few thoughts that might help: Is there a university anywhere near you? You could scan the noticeboards for social events and go along. Just say you're an erasmus student and I doubt anyone would check. Or check whether there's an Au Pair circle in your town. Meeting other foreigners, so that you have people in the same boat that you can moan to, might help get the awful job into perspective. Quite a lot of people I know who did the school placements had a pretty rough time and I know some schools really take advantage. If it's like that write it all down and make sure the British Council and your university get a copy at the end so that another student might not be sent there. Make a list of things of places you wanted to see and things to do before you came (i.e. before you felt negative about the whole thing) and start planning trips. If you know you've got something to look forward to at the weekend, it makes the week easier to deal with.

Thanks Louise, I have been having a horrible time. Thanks for the suggestions - it sounds like a plan.

I'm not a giver-upper because I'm still bloody here.


We learned stuff like - Germans separate their rubbish, not useful stuff like how the healthcare system works or what the important differences in law are, etc.. I study German and Linguistics so I do pretty much just language - and one hour devoted to speaking and listening every two weeks at that.
One of the teachers said everyone gets 2 days off sick before they need a note - the headteacher must 'just not like me'.
As for turning up 'late', I wasn't late because I didn't have a timetable. I only have to help in 12 lessons a week. I could have turned up for the last three lessons every day and still been in the right. THEY were in breach of my contract for not giving me a timetable right from my first day. It took them 6 weeks.
I've spent the last 5 months being told that every tiny thing that goes wrong is my fault and I hate that I always feel I'm on the defensive. I'm not normally so unsure and I hate the way I feel. The way that nobody seems to care if I live or die is just depressing and I can't help thinking that if I was in England, somebody would have given a damn.

I hate to say it, but I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case. nfortunately, you will find "Arschlöcher" everywhere in the world and it's just bad luck if you run up against them.

Try not to take it personally and see if you can't get some support from the other teachers.

I didn't say you were, just what you wrote sounded like that. You seem to have overseen the sentence that followed.

There's just no point going off in the huff, though, as you seemed to suggest in the final sentence of your post.

RMA is right: Arseholes are everywhere, everbody's got one, only the others stink.


?? I think most who study a language will try to find the how's and why's out. Or did you expect it to be the same here as in Britain, and now think a training course entitled "How to be a German" would be a good idea?

I think it quite reasonable to expect an educated person to be able to find these sort of things out for himself. There are enough Brits here who didn't, or still hardly, speak any german and don't have degrees, who manage to master these things.

I can understand poor old "suchmichnicht" getting depressed.

Reasons to be cheerful :

1. The beer and sausage are good.
2. You can see an erect penis on porno movies.
3. It's easier to get a partner (as long as you're not fussy about extra hairy bits).

My tip :

Try getting your kit off and hanging around naked in the sauna. You'll feel great afterwards and also work up a great thirst.

Suchmichnicht - your school sounds the same as I school i was in when i was in Germany as part of my degree course. I did a German degree too. I hated it for the first couple of months as the teachers were right arses and the kids were posh and dressed up in designer clothes. My saving grace was that i walked straight into my nearest Irish Pub and got myself a waitressing job which not only introduced me to loads of fun people but also topped up my cash situation. I would definitely recommend doing it as that also takes care of your weekends.

There is a very definite cultural difference between Britain and Germany in their approach to new people. A new colleague in Britain will generally be taken under somebody's wing, either formally throuh mentoring, or informally just because that's the way we are. Germans are not like that. I'm not saying it as a criticism, but it is a fact.
I don't think it crosses their mind to say "How about the new guy? Shall we give him a call to see if he's comng down to lunch?" They learn this behaviour from very early on. A child can't just join a group of friends, they have to wait to be invited.
I dislike this attitude. But once you understand that it is nothing personal, you get used to it and it stops bothering you.

Jean-Pierre

There seems to be a common trend of being treated badly when you're out doing your year abroad placements as language assistants in schools. This isn't the first time I've heard such complaints, but you really do have to grin and bear it, even if you do feel like giving a few people a good slappin'!!!

Fortunately my uni sent the majority of us on industrial placements and just a few went to be language assistants at schools. They were the ones who got all the grief and hassle. And for once I will agree with what JP said in that not many here will take your hand as the foreigner. However, I do find that once you're in a group and have German friends, they do make better friends than the English (but perhaps I've just been lucky)