New Rules for Ausslanders.

I have been registered in Germany for about a year now and recently have began German language lessons at the local AWO school.

Yesterday we were given 2 forms to be filled out and returned, post haste.

All unemployed (I am 67 years old. ) persons of non-German nationality, are now required to attend school, with the object of learning the German language. This is compulsary, and anyone, without an acceptable reason, who refuses to do so , will be asked to produce written evidence as to their inability to cooperate. This will be some type of note from their Doctor or part-time employer, or social welfare office.

The course will last for one year. 600 hours learning, and 30 hours of German integration. Cost will be 630 Euros, reduced according to circumstances.

I repeat :- This is a compulsary attendance, and at the end of the course there
will be an examination, when progress will be assessed. If you fail ... you do it again ... so, no skivers.!!!

At the end of the course you will be isued with a certificate.

Without this certificate, you can forget about being allowed to become a full-time resident in Germany.

Maybe this will not affect a lot of us Brits, but it is going to wreak havoc amongst out Eastern fraternity.

No use protesting. This is already done and dusted.

If you don't comply ... out you go.

Good thing or bad ... what thinks you.?

Fair enough I think. If you can't get a job with the skills you have, at least being able to get by in German should remove your dsitinct disadvantage. And with strict enforcement, they can boot out the freeriders.

Oh well - I guess I'd better learn a bit more German then! :$

Six years here - in employment, in a German company, but in a mainly English environment...so no back-breaking urgent need to learn German. I know other people are in exactly the same situation - German is NOT directly required for my work. In fact, with our international business connections, native English is more important than ever.

We talk English at home, my German (note German) wife wants to keep it like that, so she and the kids keep hearing English in the background. My daughter(9) can talk and read & write in English, my son(3) is just starting to talk in d-englisch!

I don't resist learning, but I'm 40 and language skills go straight through. I've sat down on numerous occaisions and it just doesn't go in. And I hate the thought of being forced to learn it!

But it's another negative thing that, if it's true, I will seriously consider kicking Germany into the bin and going back to Britain. No doubt I will need similar re-training in the other direction!

But raffles, at 67 you're not unemployed but rather retired, oder? I do know that if you are looking for work you could be made to attend a language course at a VHS in order to maintain your unemployment payments, but if you're retired???

It Makes sense really.

Raffles - as you have reached the age of 67, you have served your time and earned your well earned rest.
So -logically speaking- you would be classified as a pensioner, not unemployed. Therefore -logically speaking- if the system has been thought through properly, you would be exempt from any obligations.

In my humble opinion, the system has obviously been created to prevent non German speakers from simply coming to Germany, signing up for dole money, and remaining unemployed for the long-term because they are not bothered to learn the local language and as a result cannot find a job.

If you are employed, but cannot speak the lingo it would not matter because you are paying your taxes and are not a burden on the state.

It takes two to tango

Bob

I doubt that this can apply to EU citizens, especially as now we don't even need a residents permit, we just have to register our address. I would think that it's more directed toward people who are trying to sign on/register with the arbeitsamt.

Makes me wish I could quit work & sign on though as 630 Euro (or less) is a great price for a years worth of German classes.

I have been trawling the internet to find something on this subject but to no avail. I would like to see something in writing tbh. I take it if you are a housewife with means to support yourself whilst in Germany, you won't need to do this anyway? Mind you at that price, its a good option I think.

Ah, thats too cheap to be true though, can anyone do this course?

Whoa everyone. I am a 67 years old guy, and the question as to wether I have to pay fr this period is still being resolved. I am self supporting, with an English pension, but I do have to attend for teaching purposes. Will get back to you when I have more details.

Think if you are married to a German woman or man, then they can't make you leave the country, but they CAN make you attend this course. It DOES apply to EU members. It appllies to all.

I think the main purpose is to get a control of "black-workers" as the only excuse for able bodied folk is to have their excuse in writing. Don't forget that the "course" is EVERY day, Monday to Friday ... 9.00 am till 12.30 am.

Makes work attractive doesn't it? You are forbidden by law to work that long every day

Well that is going to dissapoint the husband, he was banking on that one so he could send me back

Raffles,

What is the German title on the two forms you received? I would like to do search for it on Google.de to see if I find anything.

BTW, I knew you were a guy and not a housewife all along...

Hellie, I am at the school tomorrow, as part of my current learning, and will make sure that I resolve the question. It was "explained" to us by a person who speaks only German, to people who do not fully understand German ... so you may see the reason for the uncertainty of my post. LOL. Have to laugh,... but it was stressed that it IS compulsary to all Ausslanders without a valid reason to attend. Future registration, or renewal of existing registration, will not be assured without this compliance.
OK, get back to you tomorrow.

found something...

German for newcomers

Drawing lessons from the past, lawmakers also instilled in the regulation measures meant to improve integration in the face of widespread beliefs that a large number of the roughly 7.3 million foreigners living in Germany have not adjusted socially to their adopted country.

Starting next year, new immigrants will have the right to participate in state-funded German language classes and receive an introduction to the country's justice system, culture and history. The government has earmarked over €200 million towards that purpose.

The authorities may also force foreigners already living in Germany to participate in the courses or forfeit their residence permits or social handouts.

Such courses were previously only offered to ethnic Germans, most of whom immigrated from the former Soviet Union. The new law requires ethnic Germans as well as their family members to pass a language test before they will be allowed to move to Germany.

source: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1442681,00.html

"The authorities may also force foreigners" suggests obligation through discretion.

My google search result page was:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=german...gle-Suche&meta=

Bob

http://www.bafl.de/

Try this also.

Sounds like we might get a free German launguage course out of it all!

It seems they mean business, we had better all learn German!
Try clicking English on http://www.bafl.de (on the little orange/brown bar at the top)

Funny, oder?

It is in no way compulsory for EU-Citizens to attend these courses.

Raffles: That statement in your course must have been aimed at the "foreign" foreigners and not the "european" foreigners

All it says is that EU citizens moving to germany have the right to attend these courses. All others must, as they require a certain german standard to obtain a residence permit (EU citizens are entitled to a residence permit whether they speak the lingo or not).

What it also says is that EU citizens, who have been here longer can be admitted to the courses, if there are places free. Also those who can already speak german can attend the orientation courses.

Of course, as the courses are run by companies, they will be interested to get as much custom as possible, which could also be why the instructor says everybody must.

Hi,

Adding to what mike_a said...

Have a look at

http://europa.eu.int/citizensrights/index_...de&guide=living

Basically, as an EU citizen you have aright to reside where you like within the EU, regardles of who you married to.

If you have an English pension, then you are self-supporting. As of 01.01.2005, all you have to do is Anmeldung - nothing else.

However, if you draw any kind of state benefit, this could be made conditional on completion of an integration course.

If you have a look at the Handbook for Germany, there is a bit about this

http://www.handbuch-deutschland.de/book_en.html
http://www.handbuch-deutschland.de/book/en/005_001_001.html

HTH
JG

I forgot some more relevant stuff...

There is the English page of the german Foreign Office:

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/index_html

(This has a nice photo of Joschka Fischer, who will, no doubt, be giving up his German citizenship when the Hugarians give him a passport :-) )

Anyway, just above that there's a link to details of The New Immigration Act :-

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/will...urzfassung_html

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/will...uwanderung_html

http://www.bmi.bund.de/nn_174390/Internet/...jor_Id_25624_en

JG

Neila, as I explained in my first post. This was "translated " ,to a class of 13 Nationalities , by the Lehrerin, who only speaks German. Room for confusion, no doubt. LOL.

My intention was never to cause alarm to anyone, but to hopefully find clarification within these pages from someone with more knowledge than myself. I would have thought that most Companies would already have had some quiries about this subject from their " Foreign "personnel.

This has been in the air for some time now. It is aimed mainly at the Russians immiggrants of German origin and the Turks. In particular the Turks, where thanks to satellite TV, less Turks speak German now than 15 or 20 years ago.

There is no way that EU citizens are going to be forced to learn German and be thrown out if they don't.

Yep! And they can't make it a condition for getting benefits for EU citizens either.

The only qualification EU citizens require to claim benefits is valid need and appropriate residence/work history. To become resident, you need to have work (or other means of support). When you have registered as resident, you qualify for benefit in the same way as any local.

A friend of mine (from France) had been living and working here for some time but not as an employee. When he went to get benefits about a year ago, they told him he that he would be on social security rather than unemployment benefit and that they would not pay it unless he went on a German course.

He went on the course and was paid. There was no mention of passing or failing - he just had to attend.

and they want us expats to get more integrated... how about some better qualifications for the teachers, so they can address 13 nationalities in a more suitable way...and maybe relate the facts clearly and correctly

I always wonder about the point of having German grammatik 'explained' only in German
(just a personal comment, no flaming from language teachers please!)

I know that f.ex. in VHS courses 2 turks show up, 2 native english speakers, 1 polish guy, some others from eastern countries, one from africa etc.

Why not also make the employees at the bank and in shops, restaurants, all places just learn every language, just in case

Coole Sache!

here here Hannah! How are you supposed to teach German effectively then? If you try and speak all the languages of the people who were learning, then what would you ever learn? Youd just spend the whole time interpreting. When I learnt Czech, The lessons were always in Czech, right from the beginning. I found that I picked it up pretty quickly that way. Maybe a solution would be to have the text books in different languages with english explanations for the brits, amis, ozzis etc, turkish for the turks and Russian for the Russians etc? I would of thought that you would at least want a certain level of German if you came here. I would never go and live somewhere without at least having a conversational level.
As for turks having satelite t.v and all of you apparantly, I am just stuck with Kabel. Im jealous, very jealous

Shala,

it was meant ironic/sarcastic

I do know that! But I was just adding my opinion

You said that Why not make everybody at the banks etc learn every language just incase; well of course that would be impossible and ignorant of every foreigner to expect sucha service. As for the language learning, just adding a solution

I think the sooner you learn the language the better, and if I had no job, then doing a course like this no matter what level you are must be better than sitting around, after all if you haven't got a job, what are you supposed to do in between job hunting?

The price is cheap, if it was freely available here (haven't time to check all this stuff out), i think there would be quite a few takers.

my two little 'uns are taught in an environment where mother tongue is banned, all the text books are in german too, it has done them no harm, an makes them listen to the lessons.

This all looks like a good thing to me.

Update. What I have learned today is that I am NOT, as a member of the EEC, required to attend this course. Also, as a pensioner, if I DO wish to attend, then I must pay the full 630 Euro. No reduction for age.
The women on the course are all Arbeitlos 2 so do not have to pay. Also there is a Kintergarden for any with children. FOC too.
All of the men on the course, Turks, have decided to go to the Volkshochschule, as they can get the course for free there, but NOT at AWO, as all of their wives are working, and they, ( the men ) are not, and would have to pay 50% fees to do the course at AWO. Have to laugh at this.

I am now going to enquire as to wether I can do the Volkshochschule course for free too ... probably not. I don't have a wife at work. LOL.
Update again tomorrow. Regards.

Unable to pursue my quest to enrol at the Volkhochschule ... no-one answering the phone. Will have to Shanks it in the morning. They are supposed to be open on a Saturday morning for enquiries. Another joke, no doubt.

Finally got into the main Volkshochschule in Essen City centre, only to be informed that they had never been informed of any such course.!!! Blind leading the blind here, methinks. New Deutschkurse open for enrolment on Saturday,Feb 12th, between 10.00 / 14.00 hrs