Double Household Tax Relief

Hi

Has anybody ever managed to claim this successfully? If so, on what grounds?

I am persistently refused this allowance by Witten Finanzamt. I registered here on 21.12.02 and started work here on 2.1.03. I still have my house in the UK, for which I pay all bills.

I understood that double household tax relief was a transitory allowance, for 2 years, or for longer if couples worked in 2 separate places. Yet, Witten FA have asked for details of work I do in the UK in order to justify my claim, regardless of the fact that I am in my 2 year transitory period. Our steurberater is so far unsucessfully chasing this claim for us, but on the working in 2 places basis.

Hope somebody can cast some light on this.

TIA

Seems logical, that they would want to know what work you do in UK, if your StB is telling them you work in 2 places!

The double household allowance is usually for working someplace other than your normal place of residence, that is too far away to travel everyday. That is to say, your home (main residence) and family are far away, and you work in Witten and have a second household there, which you use during the week, or vice versa.

Just having 2 houses in different places does not qualify you for this. You have to prove to the Finanzamt that it is not feasible to move your main household to near your place of work. As far as I am aware, this only works if both your primary and secondary residence are in Germany.

There are different rules for being resident in one country and working in another, but just having a house, and paying the bills for it, somewhere else will not satisfy the criteria. You have to prove that you are living there regularly (at the weekends or 10/4, or some other combination), and traveling to your secondary residence for the workdays, and that you have a significant reason for doing this (spouse's job, care dependent relatives preventing spouse moving, etc).

If you registered as primarily resident in Germany, you will have to prove that you are travelling to the UK and living temporarily in your house there, to work there. If you registered a secondary residence in DE, you have to prove that the centre point of your life is in UK and that your are regularly travelling to DE to work, and only living temporarily here.

You have to prove the travel with Tickets/Invoices, etc.

You state you have been working in Witten since 2.1.03, does that mean as a normal employment (220 days work plus holidays)? How much time do you spend in the UK? What do you do when there?

Generally, if you are living and working more than 187 days per year in Germany, you will be considered as permanently resident and working here. Short business trips do not count as foreign residence, if your main place of employment is in Germany.

From the beginning of 2004, there is no 2 year limit, if you qualify, but singles cannot qualify.

If your StB was any good, he should have had this sorted one way or another ages ago, as it is a formal situation whether you qualify for this or not. Perhaps you might want to ask another StB for advice.

Thanks for comprehensive reply.

I guess the info I've seen on other places is incorrect, about being allowed a transition period, between leaving one place and moving to another.

Thanks

I did try, but got nowhere. A

Where was I, yes flood protocol error on the board.

For one year I had to pay for two houses, one in UK, one here, hurt! Got no help from UK, got a little from here - They give me an extra notch on my tax klasse though but nothing else.

What a load of bollocks, claiming for a double household is easy, get yourself a top Steuerberater to get some of your hard earned back from the robbing bastards.

Could that be back dated, or have I missed the boat?

For last year it shouldn't be a problem. You will probably need to provide evidence that you are maintaining 2 homes such as a mortgage statement or tenancy agreement.

You say that, but I have provided all that evidence, that I pay for everything in the UK, and still am being refused.

Additionally, I wasn't allowed tax relief on costs of flights home etc., to visit my dependent son (who lives in the house I maintain in the UK).

Not really a very productive statement.

While entering a claim is quite easy, convincing the Finanzamt to agree to it is another matter. The problem is the vagaries of german tax law, which is full of conditions and contradictions. Without a good StB you're screwed, even if you can qualify, but just having a good StB won't help if you fall under one of the contradictions.

So, if you have a demon system that's proven to work, why not share that, rather than an expletive?

@ Ramonb:

That will depend on whether there was an error, on how long ago it was, and on your "Bescheid" ("vorlaufig" or "endgültig"). "Vorlaufig" is not a problem to get adjusted. "Endgültig" is harder, you really need to prove that there was a major error that the Finanzamt should have spotted. You have a period of notice after "erteilung" in which you can object ("einspruch") to a Bescheid, after that it is final and you really need to prove incompetence.

@ Rebecca

AFAIK just maintaining 2 homes is not enough, you have to justify having the middlepoint of your life in one, and be travelling to the other to work. If you are living and working here "permanently", they consider your other home like a holiday house.

I've known quite a few people, who have been there and had no success -- One of them was living here in a camper, while his wife and kids were living in his house in GB, but the Finanzamt refused him an allowance on his house and travel.

@ Mairinger:

How dependent is your son? If he is capable of living on his own, without supervision?

Well it was some years ago we claimed it and only for a few months.

My son is early twenties, but a full time student and therefore I get kindergeld for him here. He was already studying when I moved to Germany, and couldn't be considered to give up his university place to move with me!

Additionally, my house cannot be sold until July this year, due to a clause in the mortgage when I purchased it.

This is quite an interesting topic for me...

I have been told by someone at my new company that its possible for non German citizens living and woking in Germany to receive some sort of tax rebate on rent paid on a German property if they also own a house in their native country.

I'm a little unsure on how I confirm if I qualify for this? Basically I am single and own my own home in the UK, but will be renting it out when I move out to Germany in around 4 weeks time.

Any ideas where I stand on any possible rebates? I appeciate there may be a lot of variables involved here, but any experiences people have of this would be appeciated.

Many thanks,
Gareth

I successfully did this when I lived in Munich. particularities were: I started work in MUC in feb, and left again on 31 dec of the same year so maybe that helped justify the "my main residence is not here" argument. I flew back a minimum of once a month (proved this with plane ticket receipts) which I understand is the absolute minimum (currently doing every other weekend so that ought to help.) I demonstrated the existence of a "hauptwohnsitz" in the UK in two ways: firstly, when I first went to the "meldeamt" I ticked the "nebenwohnsitz" box. secondly, I included a copy of my council tax demand notice with my steuererklaerung.

und bob ist dein onkel

I got back 48% of my rent in MUC, of my plane tickets, train tickets to/from airports, etc. coupla grand in my pocket and not in hans eichel's. works for me!

PS you don't need a tax consultant, just buy the WISO software and book package. the cost of which, incidentally and bizarrely since it helps you reduce your tax burden in the first place, is TAX DEDUCTIBLE. har har... have to understand german to use it tho...

Grr, why is it everyone I talk to has a totally different perspective on this?

Still have to try a steuerberater, but a few German accountants that I work with seem to think that it is dead easy to get. Some people on here make it sound v difficult.

I've heard anecdotally about expats who "invent" a rental agreement and manage to get the tax back based on that, even though they do not do the flying back every month...

It has such a large financial impact that if you are renting a flat costing in the region of 800-1000 euro per month, then being able to claim back is quite literally a little gold mine of 3-4 grand sterling each year

HHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

I mean I answered this on the assumption that you actually *do* have your main residence in the UK (i.e. you are not trying to con the tax man), in which case as I have outlined it is quite easy: as long as you can show that you pay council tax in the UK and/or that you own/rent a property for your own use, and go back regularly (i.e. minimum once a month, preferably every week) then you should be fine

not sure what happens if you have brought your family along to D. my guess is it might be more difficult to justify that your "lebensmittelpunkt" is a 500sq ft flat in London if the wife and four kids live in Frankfurt with you and go to school there...

Can't understand why so many people can't understand that...

The regs are perfectly clear. It is not enough just owning or renting property in UK, you do have to prove you are living there to the satisfaction of the authorities here, not in a way that might be convenient to one's self...

It's one thing to play with their rules, making your own doesn't work for any length of time.

Discover the possibilities, and utilise them. It's more productive than battling for what you think would be good.