Should I get a British passports for my kids

I've got two children living in Germany. They've both got German passports. I haven't bothered trying to get British passports for them yet. Would getting a British passport be an advantage for them now or later ?

Wouldn't do them any harm, would it? and as far as I know, you can have both a German and another passport at the same time, under certain circumstances.
MAybe ask the British Consulate in Germany?

http://www.britischebotschaft.de/en/consular/duesseldorf/

Hi This is my first post-and the title caught my eye.
I was wondering if Ablehalle had found any other info on the subject since December?
My eldest lad is coming on 17 and recons holding a UK passport will help him out of the wehrfplicht. Ive just recently changed my old paper UK driving licence (still cant spell it) and Swansea wouldnt give me one without a "Permenant" UK address--I gave me Mums.
Will I encounter the same sort of problem when I wing the forms and photos off to Duss?? :excl:

Andy

I wish I knew about this forum earlier.

Hi Andy,

If you're a Brit and your son was born while you were married then he's automatically a Brit. Getting passport then is a matter of form filling and sending relevant docs.

If your son was born out of wedlock then it's more tricky.

The nice people at the British Consulate will help you out. The link is given above.

Good luck

The British authorities have no issue with their citizens holding multiple citizenships (and passports).

As I understand it, the German authorities do not tolerate their citizens maintaining citizenships elsewhere.

The British authorities do not infrom other governments if one of their nationals acquires a british passport.

So they won't find out. So stuff them, right ?

Well - what they don't know won't hurt them... :-

On the other hand, this approach wouldn't be helpful for the Wehrfplicht issue.

I believe children up to the age of somewhere between 16 and 21 (sorry, can't remember exactly) are allowed to hold dual nationality, but thereafter they must (theoretically) choose which.

As jg said, the British government are not going to inform the German government of their own bat, the Germans, on the other hand, are much more worried about Turks with dual nationality and are unlikely to inquire in the UK.

Er is the following true...

My son aged 1 currently holds British, American and German passports. My son was born in Germany and because I've been here donkey years here's automatically a German. He's automatically American because his mom's American. And he's British because he was born in wedlock and yours truly is a Brit. He doesn't have to change nationalities so their isn't a problem now or later. I hope anyway.

However, for example, if you want to change your nationality to German from English. You have to give up your English nationality. Example :

Mr Smith from England is 100% British and no connection to Germany. He then moves to Germany because he likes sausages. He likes it so such he decides to get German citizenship. He has to give up his British passport. Is that right ?

Someone please clarify.

In "A Manual for Germany" (http://www.handbuch-deutschland.de/book_en.html), there's a section on acquiring German citizenship by naturalisation. In there, it states:-

"You must generally give up your previous citizenship (there are exceptions). "

If your Mr Smith is keen to be "Einbürgered", there's a website for it:-

http://www.einbuergerung.de

Interestingly, this has a bit about multiple citizenships for EU citizens:-

http://www.einbuergerung.de/47_111.htm

"... Bei Unionsbürgern wird nicht verlangt, dass sie vor der Einbürgerung in Deutschland ihre bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit aufgeben, wenn der andere EU-Mitgliedstaat im Gegenzug bei Einbürgerung von Deutschen ebenso verfährt. ..."

So, it seems Mr Smith could be einbürgered here and yet remain British - without needing to keep his ongoing Britishness a secret.

Has anyone out there been "einbürgered" and kept their British nationality with the blessings of the German authorities ?

He must really like his sausages.

I think you are getting it wrong ablehalle, it is not because you have been here donkeys years that your son has a german passport but because he was born in a german hospital, as i suppose he was.

I dont think he is automatically british either just because you are british, i know years ago the consulate wanted me to pay for my children (mother german, me brit, born in a german hospital) to get them british nationality.

The latest i heard is that the brits dont let you have dual nationality either.The germans might let it go through though.

No Ablehalle is right on this one, being born in a German hospital no longer gives citizenship.

The info below is dated March, 2001 but I do no think it has changed since then.

GERMANY
CITIZENSHIP: Based upon German citizenship law, the principle of descent from the parents (jus
sanguinis), and, after January 1, 2000, jus soli.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the Federal Republic of Germany does not automatically confer
citizenship. However, from January 1, 2000, citizenship will be acquired by birth in Germany if
one parent has lived in the country for eight years.

BY DESCENT:

Child born in wedlock whose father or mother is a citizen of Germany.

Child born out of wedlock whose father is stateless or unknown and whose mother is a
citizen of Germany.

Child born out of wedlock to a foreign woman and a German father will be granted German
citizenship upon the legitimization (recognition) of the child by the German father.

BY NATURALIZATION: At the discretion of the German naturalization authority; 8 years
residence in Germany is a requirement.
DUAL CITIZENSHIP: In principle, not recognized.
Exceptions:

German citizens abroad who acquire another citizenship can forego the automatic forfeiture of
their German citizenship by obtaining a decree from the German authorities permitting them to
retain their German citizenship.

After January 1, 2000, dual citizenship is allowed until age 23.
LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: The law allows Germans to petition for a release from German citizenship if
they have applied for the acquisition of foreign citizenship and the authorities of the foreign
state have stated that they will be naturalized. Petitions may be directed to the federal
government in Germany or the nearest German Embassy.

INVOLUNTARY: Voluntary acquisition of foreign citizenship without having received a decree
from the German authorities permitting concurrent retention of German citizenship.
ANY QUESTIONS concerning citizenship, or requests for renunciation of citizenship, should be
directed to the address below:
Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany
Consular Section
4645 Reservoir Dr., NW
Washington, DC 20007
Embassy Telephone: 202-298-4360
Fax: 202-471-5558
www.germany-info.org
www.undp.org/missions/germany
www.government.de/english/01/newsf.html

The British Nationality Act 1981

7. The British Nationality Act 1981, which came into force on 1 January 1983, replaced citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies with three separate citizenships:

(a) British citizenship for those persons who had the right of abode in the United Kingdom (as defined in Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1971);

(B) British Dependent Territories citizenship for those connected by birth or descent with a dependent territory;

© British Overseas citizenship for those who did not belong to categories (a) or (B) above.
The term "Commonwealth citizen" no longer has the same meaning as "British subject" although persons connected with the Republic of Ireland, India or Pakistan who were British subjects under the 1948 Act (see paragraph 5 above) retain that status under the 1981 Act.

8. Women, whether commonwealth or foreign, no longer have an entitlement to registration, but spouses (of either sex) may apply for naturalisation after three years residence in the UK. Citizenship may now be transmitted through either the male of female line, except that in the case of an illegitimate child it can be acquired only through the mother.

9. In general, since 1 January 1983, it has been possible to acquire British citizenship automatically:

(a) by birth in the UK to a parent who is either a British citizen or settled in the UK under immigration law;

(B) by adoption in the UK by a British citizen parent;

© by birth outside the UK to a parent who is a British citizen "otherwise than by descent";

(d) by birth outside the UK to a British citizen parent in Crown, Designated or European Community service.
10. Special rules apply to the acquisition of British citizenship by British Dependent Territories citizens connected with Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.

UNITED STATESCITIZENSHIP: Citizenship is based upon Title 8 of U.S. Code 1401 - 1409, dated 1986.

BY BIRTH: Child born within the territory of the United States, regardless of the citizenship of
the parents.

BY DESCENT:

Child born abroad, both of whose parents are citizens of the United States, and one of
whom resided in the United States before the birth of the child.

Child born abroad, one of whose parents is a citizen of the United States who resided in
the United States for at least five years before the birth of the child.

BY NATURALIZATION: United States citizenship may be acquired upon fulfillment of the
following conditions:

Person must be 18 years old, have resided in the United States for at least five years as a
lawful permanent resident, be able to speak, read, and write English, be of good moral
character, be familiar with the history and culture of the country, be attached to the
principles of the United States Constitution, and have renounced former citizenship.

Foreign citizens who marry citizens of the United States need only reside in the United
States for three years, but must still fulfill the other conditions.

OTHER: Certain provisions for granting citizenship have been extended to persons who have
performed specific military service to this country. For more information, contact the U.S.
Immigration and Naturalization Service.
DUAL CITIZENSHIP: RECOGNIZED
Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (7 FM 1162), the Supreme
Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a “status long recognized in the law”
and that “a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to
the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without
more mean that he renounces the other,” (Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717) (1952).
The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) does not define dual citizenship or take a position for it
or against it. There has been no prohibition against dual citizenship, but some provisions of the
INA and earlier U.S. nationality laws were designed to reduce situations in which dual citizenship
exists.
United States law does not contain any provisions requiring U.S. citizens who are born with dual
citizenship or who acquire a second citizenship at an early age to choose one or the other when
they become adults (Mandeli v. Acheson, 344 U.S. 133) (1952). The current citizenship laws of the
United States do not specifically refer to dual citizenship.
While recognizing the existence of dual citizenship and permitting Americans to have other
citizenships, the U.S. Government does not endorse dual citizenship as a matter of policy because
of the problems that it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual-national U.S. citizens often
place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the
other.
10
LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of United States citizenship is permitted by law.
However, renunciation can only be made at a U.S. Consulate outside the United States.

INVOLUNTARY: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of United States citizenship:

Person commits treason against the United States.

Person takes an oath of allegiance to a foreign state.

Person joins the armed forces of a country at war with the U.S.
ANY QUESTIONS concerning citizenship policy of the U.S. or its territories should be sent to the
address below:
U.S. Department of State
Office of Consular Affairs
Washington, DC 20520
Telephone: 202-647-4000

So it's really very simple then.

If I was you I would ask them, when I got changed over in to German I had to go to the Bundeswehr (Wehrflicht) when I wanted the British passport 5 Years ago back was so easy only take 7 days only because I had a British birth certificate from the Rhine Army.Now i got two Passports

A british friend who has lived here for some years has just obtained a German passport, she has not had to give up her British one. A new law passed last year enabled her to do this. She had to answer a few questions about Germany, prove she could speak the language and pay €250, it was easy and only took a couple of weeks. She now has a German ID card and passport.

€250 bucks

You've got to really want it for that amount of money!

A GB Passport for your kids has its advantages when you get divorced from a german wife.
She is scared stiff of the fact that I could leave the country any time without her even knowing ...

You can kidnap the kids and take them to the UK on their German passports. Get them a UK passport when u get there.

Ah, but if the B1tch has got his German passport and won't give it to me, that means I can't leave the country with him can I ??
If I want to go to France for the Weekend, I don't want to go begging for his passport.
That's why I was so clever to apply for his British Passport while we was in divorce. Now she is scared shit of me leaving without her even knowing.

What form do I fill out for the kids?

For a first passport?

form C2 says that the children have to be living in the UK at time of Application,
and the form BNO-B is for
1.replacement
2.renewel
3.changes
4.extension

father pur blood (brit)
mother muggle (german)

Form C2 is all you need.
Make sure that the photo is as required ( Details on website ( British Embassy )
Photo has to be countersigned by someone ( Another Brit or a Doctor or a Solicitor )

The nationality of the mother doesn't count at all. She doesn't even have to sign the forms. She need not even know about the fact ... hehe..

But if you have any questions, give the guys a ring in Düsseldorf. They will be able to help you ...
- well, send them an email, it's cheaper than their expensive phone nmumber )

( Small tip from me: Get yours done at the same time. That means you can get all passports renewed @ the same time. Mine was not due for another 2 Years, but I explained why I wanted it renewing, and I got it done...

cheers far-lands

with the tip, brilliant idea, but got 8 years left on mine. but for anyone else going down this road...

I got my kids passports through the UK office even though I live here. I just filled out the applications when I was back in London, lI eft their short Birth Certificates and photos with my Mum and gave my Parents address. They were back within 10 days. Even though my Husband knew I had got them he didn't have to sign anything at all in the way of giving his permission yet when we got the kids U.S. ones I had to sign and give permission even though I am not a US citizen. They have introduced this measure to stop parents taking kids out of the country. If one parent doesn't sign, then no passport for the child will be issued unless the applying Parent gets a court order.

Also it is a bit cheaper if you do it via the UK, and much less hassle than going through the Embassy. If you do it this way, pay special attention to the photos, they have to be a certain size and they are really anal about it.

can fully understand, and I think both parents should be signing documents involving their kids!

Think I heard somewhere, that if I travel out of germany, with MY kids alone, then I need some sort of document from the wife agreeing to this. applies only when I am a foriegner.
can any one confirm this? or is this not the case!

NOT the case - Thank god for that !!

nice to hear, maybe not a bad idea though.
heard a few horrer stories where the bloke has sodded of to the middle east with the kids.
seen the film as well.

As for the passport for the kids, I`d planned to do it for a while now, but always forget, now I`ve printed the forms and getting them done!

Jay, my kid has two passports, so when I go on holiday, I use the british one, as I don't want to beg her for his german one. Thats why she is so scared stiff. I have a british passport for my kid in my possesion, that enables me to go out of the country when I want without her even knowing.

Fill 'em out and get it sorted... Good one ...

will do, and won`t have to get visas for em in certain countries, or "visa" versa

Duel Citizenship can be desirable if you have a second non EU one, (say US or Australia) as you can move and work there with out the hassle of immigration, that's how Chris and I got here.

Main negative to US passport is you are taxed based on Citizenship not residency so it means filling a tax return each year.

I`m not sure I`d bother with having more than one EU passport as you don`t need it. I`m told I can obtain a British passport as my mother was British when I was born, but why bother when I have all the same rights as a German. My understanding is for me to obtain a German passport (once I`ve been here 8 years) I would have to give up my Canadian one. But again why bother.

[quote name='jg.' date='Jan 27 2005, 07:38 PM' post='26724']
As I understand it, the German authorities do not tolerate their citizens maintaining citizenships elsewhere.

Only as adults - up to the age of majority they can't do anything about it and the whole situation is in any event changing following new legislation during the last few years. At the moment they say you should decide with 18 but they (Germany) can't force you to give up British citizenship and we (UK) wouldn't answer their question in that respect so the whole thing is irrelevant. My daughter (9) holds both British and German passports and while I'm not very nationalistic she is SO proud of her British passport. I still hold my British passport on the very simple basis I'd be willing to CONSIDER changing it for a European passport but would not consider replacing it with that of another member state of the EU. Why ? Because I'd gain nothing that wouldn't be balanced by an equal loss. The treaty of Rome guarantees my status within Europe, not Germany.

Pardon me getting into points of view here - this is one of my hobby horses.
When will I see a Turkish Mayor in this great democracy - or a Turkish MP who hasn't rescinded his nationality ? Harrumph !

This has changed recently. Germany now allows dual citizenship to citizens of countries that allow German's to have dual citizenship, this obviously includes the UK. As far as I can remember, it costs about 250€.

Cost is the cost of the passport - That's all I paid for my son. ( When applying for a UK passport when born german. )
For me: I can't see a reason for getting a german Passport - what for ??
I mean, that I can't see any advantages.

The one reason that is fairly obvious is that it allows you to vote in all elections. Whether you think that's worth paying 250€ for is up to you. I decided that on balance, it wasn't.

The other advantage is that you would then be able to get an ID card I assume, which is more convenient than having to carry your passport about for ID purposes.

then you can celebrate a worldcup win in your life time!

Jaygee has gone for cover!

Why do I need a german Passport to celebrate EEEENGUUURLAAAAND win ??

Doesnt getting a german passport mean you have to become a naturalised german?? Isnt that whats actually involved here, with the passport as an add-on to obtaining the nationality? Or do they hand out passports to EU citizens living here long term without any naturalisation requirement??? (that would seem a bit odd to me).

Rick, you're right. I don't want to become german, so thats why I don't want a german passport.

Which brings us an interesting question. Your son is he German British or Amercian, or perhaps an Amgertish

I only mention that becuase I have a friend who adopted 2 (soon to be 3) chinese babys and oldest just turned 7,but they never lived in the States, so when they recently recited the pledge of allegiance it held no meaning for them. EVen though they nevered lived there his parents will make sure they understand that they are American. (and George Bush rules the free world NOT)

Get your son a German passport as soon as you have the chance. You never know what advantages either of them could have for your son in the future...

Sorry, i havent read through the great long sequence of emails etc so apologies if this is a point already made by someone else.

Agree that within the EU it doesnt really matter (for as long as the EU lasts in its current form...!) but outside the EU it may make a difference.

Easiest example to think of is it he or she wants to go to Australia/NZ then there are certain advantages in terms of access to working holiday visas, easier to get residency (i think)... and so on.

There are also advantages of being able to "choose" your nationality to fit the circumstance that you find yourself in, so if its possible to double flag (as they say in shipping parlance) then definitely worth doing