Breaking the 1/6th UK residency rule?

Has anyone had experience of getting in trouble with the 1/6th rule? I believe that expat Brits who are no longer filing tax returns in the UK (like me and probably most of you) are not allowed to spend more than 61 days in the UK in any 12 month period. Not only does the rule take account of the cumulative count of days, it also has a 1/6th rule where if you want to spend one day/week/month in the UK, you must have just spent at least 6 days/weeks/months out of the country. That's how I understand it anyway.

I just spent 3 days there last week, and 7 days in June so my total is only 10 days so far this year so no problems yet.

Problem is, I want to go there for Christmas for about 11 days (starting the 20th December). If I hadn't just been there for 3 days I would be ok, because June to December is more than 11 weeks, but those 3 days I just spent there last week mean I'll be breaking the 1/6th rule at Christmas even though my total for the year will only be 21.

Has anyone had experience of this? Is it only the likes of pop stars and film stars who are scrutinized? Or is it all computerized and everyone who enters any port gets their passport scanned and you're done for? I don't want to break the rule but I don't want to cancel my ferry ticket either. Am I worrying over nothing? Would my total of 21 days mean they overlook the slight rule break?

Thanks...

Simple - Passports aren't "scanned" (they are rarely checked even) , and you are not under scrutiny. I think you worry too much!

I have not heard of the "1/6 rule".

From the Inland Revenue website:-

"Normally if you leave the UK permanently or for 3 years or more or to work abroad full-time, you will become not resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK if your absence from the UK covers a complete tax year (i.e. 6 April to 5 April), and you spend less than 183 days in the UK during the tax year, and your visits to the UK do not average 91 days or more a tax year over a maximum of 4 years. (For visits to the UK, days of arrival and departure are not normally counted as days spent in the UK.)"

i.e. less than 183 days per year but no more than 91 days at a time and not totalling more than 1 year in every 4 years.

In any case, if you are ordinarily resident and paying income tax in Germany (or other EU country), then you would not be liable for income tax in the UK.

ciao
JG

Seems like I am worrying too much then. That 1/6th rule was told to me about 10 years ago while I was still in the UK. Maybe it was BS, or maybe it changed now.

Thanks y'all

No there is a definate limitation on the time you can spend in UK if you are non resident for Tax purposes. I had this when I was working in Saudi, I'm sure I broke it but my accountant..sorted it out..umm sort of.

Yes - and the limits are listed in my post. As these are taken straight from the Inland Revenue website, one would think they are probably correct.

Also, Saudi is not an EU member state and does not have a dual taxation treaty with the UK.

No-ones disputing there are limits - What is in question here is how easy it is for the Brits to detect it.

Derek's original post was based on the idea that he was about to breach some time limit. As he is not even close to doing that, detection seems to be irrelevant. Why would anyone be worried about being detected not breaking any rules?

Calm down! I was referring to the post previous to your last one - For some reason mine arrived after yours although I posted it before...if that makes sense.

Evenso, since there are no "registration" procedures in the UK for EU nationals I can't see them catching you even if you do overstay your limit.

Oh! OK, fair enough. I was thinking people weren't reading what I wrote... :-)

I can't imagine them noticing anything either. Revenue staff are too busy browsing pop stars' records to see if there's anything worth selling to News of the World :-)

Well that's a misuse of tax payers' money I'm happy to sanction - Anything that keeps them off my back "bring it on" is what I say!

Infact Passports do get scanned. Mine has been scanned on 3 occasions coming into Germany. I think thats more for security reasons.

That's a given, (not sure there's much to scan though- Seems they are typing in the number when they look at mine) but it's irrelevent as they won't know where you arrived from. They are not read when you arrive into UK and are rarely even looked at so the Inland Revenue aren't going to know how long you were in the UK even if you are scanned upon return.

Incidentally can someone give me a definite reason why on the rare occassions that I actually fly into Germany I end up standing with the Swiss and Outer Mongolians to have my EU, allbeit British EU passport read whilst the French, Germans and Italians etc just steam through?

Your standing in the wrong queue, then.

They are clearly marked lanes for EU and non-EU citizens... At least everywhere I've been.

But the Brits do get pulled in on occassion

This may well be due to the fact that although the UK is part of Europe they opted out of the Schengen Agreement which guarantees citizens free unhindered movement

Mac:

Everybody can get pulled in at times -- there are still random checks for EU citizens, the others always have to stand in line.

Vascoingles:

It has nothing to do with Schengen - Which is about:

* harmonizing provisions relating to entry into and short stays in the Schengen area by non-EU citizens (uniform Schengen visa);
* asylum matters (determining in which Member State an application for asylum may be submitted);
* measures to combat cross-border drugs-related crime;
* police cooperation (hot pursuit);
* cooperation among Schengen states on judicial matters.

That means that EU citizens are not generally checked at border crossings, but there are spot checks in a 50 km corridor either side of the border.

I live quite close to the Dutch and Belgian borders with Germany. Although there are no permanent checks at the borders anymore, they will occasionally cone-off one lane of the road and do a border check. Mostly customs and border police have units roaming both sides of the border, which pull you over at random with a "follow-me" and do a roadside check (especially german customs between Holland and Germany -- see point 3 above :$ )

It used to be 2 guys chatting in "toll-booth", who would waive you past, unless you looked very suspicious, or were pretty stupid. When you were past that, you were clear.

Now they've got people roaming around looking for something to do, and the chances of being pulled over are tendencially higher, if you're in the "wrong" place at the "wrong" time and give rise to any suspicion at all.

While Britain is not a party to the Schengen Agreement, it does implement some of the measures related to EU citizen's rights, particularly point 1 above. In my experience, you generally still have a (cursory) passport check, particularly coming off the ferry, but not a general customs check since the duty free was abolished.