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Will the Queen say sorry?

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Nicole
Well that's a bit of a cheek!!

QUOTE
Germany asks will Queen say sorry? 04:44, Oct 29 2004

By Alexandra Hudson

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germans are waiting to see how the Queen refers to Britain's 1945 bombing of Dresden when she visits next week, now that they are speaking more of their own war-time suffering and breaking a long-standing taboo.

Just days ahead of the Queen's first visit since 2000, a row has erupted in the British and German press over whether the air raids were justified and whether the monarch should apologise.

Dresden was devastated in a firestorm which killed some 35,000 people just three months before the war's end. The fate of the eastern city has come to epitomise civilian suffering.

"Will the queen say sorry?" asked the country's largest selling newspaper Bild on Thursday.

The queen will host a concert in Berlin to raise money for Dresden's cathedral which lay in rubble for 50 years and is now a focus of German and British reconciliation.

"Such delicate gestures of reconciliation are probably too complicated for newspapers like Daily Mail and Daily Express to understand," wrote the Berliner Zeitung daily.

ANGER IN BRITISH PRESS

Talk of an apology has angered populist newspapers.

"Krautrage" said a headline in the Daily Star tabloid.

"Sorry, the Germans must never be allowed to forget their evil past," wrote columnist Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail.

A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman was quoted in Germany's Der Spiegel newsmagazine saying the Queen had not been asked for an apology. But she added: "The Queen is very conscious of the suffering of all people during the war."

The queen's three-day visit aims to focus on the future relationship of Britain and Germany.

On a visit to Britain two weeks ago German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said he was amazed at the lingering portrayal of Germany in the British media as a nation of Nazis.

It was long considered unwise and even dangerously nationalistic for Germans to question whether Allied bombings were necessary or legitimate but German historian Joerg Friedrich did just that in 2003 in a best-selling book.
Hellie
This type of thing just saddens me to read. Altho we mustn't forget those people who fought in the War (both sides), it is more than time to move on. Narrow mindedness comes to mind. I could rant on about this for ages but I know TBOTR won't let me on his soap box for long enough tongue.gif
That Bloke Off The Radio
Get your own box Hellie - This one's mine tongue.gif (**Shoves her off**)...Right, now where was I?:

I don't really see that it is for HRH to apologise and I think given that she is a guest her direct hosts may feel a little uncomfortable if she did.
She didn't give the orders to bomb Dresden etc - This was down to the elected government of the day (as we all know given current events in Iraq). She probably wasn't even aware of what was happening.

Expecting her to apologise is as ridiculous as expecting you or I to apologise - We have no more responsibility than she did.

Isn't this all just playing into the hands of Fischer? It seems he may have been right in what he said (posted on this board last) last week.

And just who are these Germans "waiting" arms folded it sounds, for an apology -

For God's Britain get a life and something else to talk about in the press than something that happened 60 years ago.

And crawl back under the tabloid rock from whence you came Alexandra Hudson (Slow news day is it?) - Reuters is worthy of better than this pap.

This sort of thing just causes further misunderstanding between those "normal" Brits enjoying their lives in Germany and Germans themselves - They really must think we're obsessed by the Second World War!
reggie
QUOTE
"Will the queen say sorry?" asked the country's largest selling newspaper Bild on Thursday.

... erm, "asked the country's largest selling sensationalist rag" more like.

Don't do it, Lizzie!
Adriang
When I read headlines such as these from the Star and the Mail, it makes me embarassed to be British.

I don't see why the Queen should apologise for Dresden, although the raid had absolutely no military value whatsoever. We should learn the lessons of WWI, but we should also be able to put these times behind us.
bbulldog
Will the Germanas appologise for slaughtering millions of jews or bombing britain.
Invading many coutries???

Tell em to go stick their head up Fischers...you all know what
pirate
mad.gif
Who bombed my grandads chippy eh ??

Only kidding, but haven't the gutter press dug something real deep out and don't they love spreading muck like this around, as soon as i saw the headline i just laughed and didn't even bother reading it.
bbulldog
They bombed my old mans peddle car ohmy.gif
He said when he got back from the bomb shelter only half of it was left and the rest was in a big hole in the back garden. He then got moved to Hayle in Cornwall.
A-3
QUOTE
Who bombed my grandads chippy

My Gran Dad ph34r.gif Only kidding to ph34r.gif
That Bloke Off The Radio
Oh and I'd say one other thing to the journalists who are writing this tripe on both sides of the water...

...We've already done a lot to put right the damage we did to Germany. We rebuilt their cities, gave them money for aid, and kickstarted their economy with financial and practical help - If it wasn't for the likes of the late Major Ivan Hirst who with his batallion rebuilt and ran the Volkswagen factory after the war the car company would probably not exist as it does today.

Also although there are strategic reasons for our army being there, British Forces Germany provides a huge boost to the local German economy.

I think this is another case of both the British and German tabloid press really having nothing better to do.

Besides, haven't we already said sorry to Dresden by way of some bells and a monument recently? huh.gif

I just hope the populist Bild and our own tabloid press doesn't upset what has become for those of us who live there, work there and love the place a far stronger "special relationship" than that of the UK and US.

QUOTE
Will the Germanas appologise for slaughtering millions of jews or bombing britain.
Invading many coutries???

You can't blame the Germans for this one Bully - This is the press making things up again. No German I know is looking for an apology from the UK.
bbulldog
Nor any I know of, yes you are right you can't blame the Germans for this.
Surprised that the press didnt write it that way round...
Nicole
More important question with regard to the Royals. Who gave Phil the Greek the shiner?? 5-1 it was Prince Harry!!
That Bloke Off The Radio
He was probably driving that stupid bloody black taxi he owns around London again and refused to take a punter "South of the River" laugh.gif
Adriang
QUOTE
Who gave Phil the Greek the shiner??

I'd have to agree that Harry is the most likely suspect, but judging by Phil's diplomacy and tact, it could be anyone in the Royal household..
Nicole
Apparently he poked himself in the eye while he was in the bath.
They couldn't make it up... to have a shiner like that someone gave him a good left hook.
gentleman
**Uses 2 soapboxes for extra effect. **

The bombing of Dresden should have resulted in a charge of “acts against humanity� for Air Marshall Arthur Harris, but as England won the war no such thing ever came about!

The British have constantly (especial the tabloid (toilet) papers) complained about the lack of morals on the part of the Germans during the war, but never looked at our own dirty side of the war. And the bombing of Dresden was really dirty. Why? Because the only reason it was bombed was that Hitler said it was his favourite German city. It had no industry to speak of and hardly any munitions factories! To add to this the main target was the civilian population of the city! And all this happened just a few months before the end of the war, when it was clear who would win and when (more or less)!

Should Queenie apologise? As head of state who better! She was around at the time after all (unlike baby Blair). And before you all start getting out the nails for the old crucifixion, Germany has apologised time and time again, so it is just about time that we the Brits also took a step in this direction.

Yes Hellie, we should move on, and on all sides, but as long as we have not decided to do so perhaps it would be good to say sorry!

PS. Informative site on just what happened…

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWdresden.htm
Slackmack
Liz ain't gonna apologise, it will be a case of digified rememberance of all those that died... fullstop.
That Bloke Off The Radio
Hate to be the one to tell you this "gentleman" but I think you're on your own with this one.

We've spent a lot of money rectifying the damage caused (and have apologised on more than one occassion) and I for one am unaware of any Germans or German group asking for us to apologise further - Don't know about anyone else?
It's not the people looking for an apology it's the tabloids sapping the marrow out of a story that the rest of us normal souls dealt with years ago because they don't have the intelligence to go after the real stories of today.

Muck raking over the reasons for why Dresden or London or anywhere else that was attacked isn't helpful 60 years after the fact - I think most of us are trying to just exist together happily without digging up the past which is a terribly destructive thing to do.

I was brought up to believe if I make a mistake I apologise for it myself - I can't expect other people to go around picking up the pieces for me. On that basis HRH shouldn't apologise and neither should anyone else (again) particularly when the only party calling for an apology appears to be a posionous rag I wouldn't use to wipe my posterior.

You can't delegate responsibility and accountability after the fact.
alibi
well said, TBOTR...sometimes I'm ashamed to be a journohack...just glad I went into the trade press instead of the muck-raking yellow press... ph34r.gif
Adriang
QUOTE
The bombing of Dresden should have resulted in a charge of “acts against humanity� for Air Marshall Arthur Harris, but as England won the war no such thing ever came about!

What irritates me, is that people are always going on about Dresden. Dresden was a terrible tragedy, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what happened in Eastern Europe.

Do people mention the 19 Million civilians that died in the USSR? No.

Do people mention the 1.5 Million Civilians(more than all of the casualties of the US and UK combined) that were starved and shelled to death in St Petersburg. No.

The events in the East were glossed over by the western powers, so that we (and especially the US) could take the credit for defeating the Nazis.

So, stop moaning about Dresden, the Germans today have it cushy and have nothing to complain about. If you get the chance to travel to the ex-USSR, take a look at all the old folks on the street selling stuff, just to make ends meet. They've gone through such a lot and at the end they've still got sweet FA..
alibi
I was in St Petersburg a few years ago on business and was horrified by the poverty on the streets...sickening...I felt ashamed to be a "rich westerner"... sad.gif
pirate
here's one on her royal horseness !

The Pope and the Queen of England are on the same stage at an Anglican and Catholic commemoration of the Anglo-Irish accords - the crowd is huge - thousands. Her Majesty and His Holiness can't help but have a little rivalry - both being heads of churches and all.

The Queen says to the Pope, "Did you know that with just one little wave of my hand I can make every English person in the crowd go wild?" He doubts it, so she shows him. Sure enough, the royal-gloved wave elicits rapture and cheering from every Englishman in the crowd.

Gradually, the cheering subsides. The Pope, not wanting to be outdone by someone wearing a worse frock and hat than he, considers what he could do. So the Pope says to the Queen,"Your Majesty, that was impressive. But did you know that with one little wave of MY hand I can make every Irish person in the crowd go crazy with joy? Their joy will not be a momentary display like that of your subjects, but will go deep into their hearts, and they will speak forever of this day and rejoice - they will recount it to their grandchildren and they to their descendants.

The Queen seriously doubts this, and says so. "One little wave of your hand and all Irish people will rejoice forever? Show me." So the Pope slapped her.

laugh.gif
BuzzAbroad
Storm in a teacup. It'll blow over.

As you rightly said, it's the gutter press whipping up a story to sell papers.

If some German hobnob visited Coventry the Sun would latch onto it too.
jg.
Nobody ever apologised to my Mum. She was 9 when she was bombed out.
She is now 73 and still shits herself at the sound of a siren.

Most people seem to think only London and Coventry were bombed in the UK.

Here are some relevant links:-

http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/blitz.html

http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/nazi.html

Note the German map marked with cultural sites and correlation with bomb targets.

All I have ever heard from Germans on this subject is "It was the Nazis" or "We were badly bombed". Of course, those reponsible are mostly dead now.

Of course Exeter was just one of many...

So, no, I don't think the Queen should apologise.
BLT
I think the Queen should say sorry because it is time to move on. Chancellor Cole said sorry for the German side and Tony Blair did for what the British did to the Irish. There is not a single day in the media about how Tommy and his Jack russell give Gerry what for and now we have a whole TV station dedicated to it (UK History)! The Americans don't go on about the war as the Brits do and if was not for them and the Polish and Czech spitfire pilots we would have lost the war. OK they did not get bombed as much as say UK but they lost a lot more of their service men and women than the British. After the war it was mainly their money under the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Germany and got Europe back on its feet again.

I recently visited Dresden and was impressed by the architecture and reconstruction efforts that were going on after all they had been through including a Russian invasion. It's a amazing how they've kept their spirits up and how the rest of Germany (grudingly) and from donations from all over the world have help it to be rebuilt. This is not the case in Britain where town's cities and the countryside (and their people) have been allowed to rot after their purpose had been served.

As an ex RAF man myself I honestly feel bomber Harris was a mad man because he directed his bomber crews on a dangerous mission getting alot of them killed in the process when he could have concentrared bombing in the Rhur region stopping the Nazi machine with better effect. But instead he killed many thousands innocent civilians, many who were refuges fleeing the war and at the same time sending experienced crews to their deaths in a time of crew shortages this was a bad mistake. To errect a statue of the man in London to me is not one of shame but more of embarrasment of a society thats completely lost the plot. Then again some people make a lot of money out of war and quell their underclass at the same time.
Slackmack
[QUOTE]I think the Queen should say sorry because it is time to move on.[/QUOTE]
Saying sorry is not moving on.

[QUOTE]There is not a single day in the media about how Tommy and his Jack russell give Gerry what for and now we have a whole TV station dedicated to it (UK History)![/QUOTE]
The war is history that is why it’s on a history-dedicated station.

[QUOTE]The Americans don't go on about the war as the Brits do and if was not for them and the Polish and Czech spitfire pilots we would have lost the war.[/QUOTE]
Again, you are sadly and badly misinformed, the American Forces Network remind their soldiers on average every 20 minutes about American military brilliance through the years as far back as their War of Independence from the Brits.

[QUOTE]OK they did not get bombed as much as say UK but they lost a lot more of their service men and women than the British. [/QUOTE]
I would like to see figures to validate this, and only figures against the Germans.

[QUOTE]After the war it was mainly their money under the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Germany and got Europe back on its feet again.[/QUOTE]
If Germany hadn’t had had its war debt cancelled by the Allies then they would still be paying to this day. It wasn’t considered advantageous to enforce the debt payment.
[QUOTE]I recently visited Dresden and was impressed by the architecture and reconstruction efforts that were going on after all they had been through including a Russian invasion. It's a amazing how they've kept their spirits up and how the rest of Germany (grudingly) and from donations from all over the world have help it to be rebuilt.[/QUOTE]
And your point is?

[QUOTE]This is not the case in Britain where town's cities and the countryside (and their people) have been allowed to rot after their purpose had been served.[/QUOTE]
Rot?

[QUOTE]As an ex RAF man myself I honestly feel bomber Harris was a mad man because he directed his bomber crews on a dangerous mission getting alot of them killed in the process when he could have concentrared bombing in the Rhur region stopping the Nazi machine with better effect. [/QUOTE]
Being Ex-RAF doesn’t qualify you to judge a mans sanity, Dresden was revenge for Coventry, the psychological effect on the then leaders of Germany probably caused them to reconsider any further massive raids against British cities.
[QUOTE]But instead he killed many thousands innocent civilians, many who were refuges fleeing the war and at the same time sending experienced crews to their deaths in a time of crew shortages this was a bad mistake. [/QUOTE]
The bomber crews had a job to do, they did it. All soldiers (loose term referring to all services) are pawns on the war games board, even the thickest soldier in an infantry company knew he was cannon fodder.
[QUOTE]To errect a statue of the man in London to me is not one of shame but more of embarrasment of a society thats completely lost the plot. [/QUOTE]
Its called honouring somebody who played his part in WWII, the man didn’t stroll out of the Officers mess and plan one raid you know, he just happened to become synonymous with the one that levelled a city belonging to our enemy
[QUOTE]Then again some people make a lot of money out of war [/QUOTE]
At last a grain of truth, somebody profits from war, wow what a revelation...not
[QUOTE]and quell their underclass at the same time. [/QUOTE]
Just what does the L stand for in your name... Lenin perhaps, you do sound like a Bolshevik.
That Bloke Off The Radio
I'm with you Slack on that last response from JG.

Most of what he says is not backed up by the actual facts available and besides I still can't see how apologising is making things any better for Dresdeners or anyone else.

I don't see a mass of Germans wanting an apology - What I see is a nation wanting, not to forget their forefathers part in the war, but to put aside, learn and move on.

They have done all three and that is borne out by their warm, friendly and hospitable approach to us ex-pat Brits.

It is proved further by the fact that they, unlike our goverment (and some of the British people sadly) don't jump at the first available possiblity to dash into someone elses country and blow the shit out of them just because they don't particularly like the policies of it's leader.
kvmechelen
anyone read WG Sebald's 'On the Natural History of Destruction'?
That Bloke Off The Radio
I think most people are aware of it and its content given the anger it caused the average German "man in the street" when it came out in 1999.

But what's your point?

In case anyone reading this isn't aware of the book - It is a study by a German author (now dead) about how Germans have chosen to forget about the allied bombing in the war and have decided instead to move on - It seems the author was a little pissed off that his countrymen have decided to put it behind them and look for the positives in their rebuilt Germany following the bombing...Which for anyone who has forgotten in the course of this very long thread, was 60 bloody years ago.
Adriang
QUOTE
The Americans don't go on about the war as the Brits do and if was not for them and the Polish and Czech spitfire pilots we would have lost the war. OK they did not get bombed as much as say UK but they lost a lot more of their service men and women than the British

The Yanks still believe they won WWII single-handed. rolleyes.gif

Losses WWII

UK 400,000 KIA, 300,000 Wounded, 60,000 civilians killed = 760,000 casualties
USA 300,000 KIA 300,000 Wounded = 600,000 Casualties.

The USA Military contribution in Europe, made very little difference to the military outcome, of the war, but rather more towards the political outcome.

The Germans lost the war in the East, and it was the Red Army that militarily turned the tide, and they paid a high price as their losses show:

USSR: 9m KIA, 18m wounded, 19m Civilians killed = 46 Million casualties!

To be fair to the Yanks, I should say the the war was won with US Money and Soviet blood.

The marshall plan rebuilt Germany, and within 10 years they were the biggest Economic power in Europe. So we destroyed Nazism, then paid to rebuild the German economy, giving the average German the cushy life s/he has today. What have we got to apologise for again...?
zwackel
Hello !

My opinion is, that an apologise should only be made if the person who has to apologise feels somehow guilty and has unterstood his mistakes.
If thats not the case an apologise is nothing more than just another lie.

(By the way, i am german and i sincerly apologise for my bad english wink.gif )

I don't want any of the english people, neither the queen, to apologise for dresden of any other of our bombed cities. Not even my father was born in ww2, but even if so,
it wouldnt make any difference to me.
The german-regime during ww2 did so many terrible warcrimes and sometimes i feel ashamed to be german or becoming associated with it.
Of course also the alliance made some terribly mistakes (e.g. Dresden),
Somebody ones said, that war is a dirty buisness

As far as noone can expect me to feel "personaly" sorry for what that freak called Hitler (he was not german but austrian by the way) did to to all those people in ww2 (and even before) i do not expect an apologise from the english people.

Lets just start to look forward and throw away those prejudices.
So we might find out some similarities wink.gif

Roland from western germany
Slackmack
Wise words well put, you have more or less echoed the thoughts of the majority of posts on this subject.

ps, welcome Roland smile.gif
zwackel
Thank you, Slackmack !

"Wise words" coming from someone who is just 35j. old ...i seem to have a promising future...
might that have already been arrogant or only illusive ? wink.gif

Next month i am going to visit england for the first time and i must admit, that i am quite curious about the country itself and the english people.
...and according to Mr. Fawlty i won't mention the war wink.gif
That Bloke Off The Radio
...Have fun in UK...Remember to take plenty of Krombacher or Koenigs with you because our beer is horrible.

Oh, and I should warn you: We only have separate taps in our bathrooms - No mixer taps! laugh.gif
zwackel
Oh, that beer-thing is quite a pity !
...maybe i should reconsider my visit... wink.gif

Honestly i'd like to give you horrible beer at least a try and find out for myself if its a prejudice or not.
Anyway, to feel perfectly secure i'll take a few bottles with me.
But I do hope that colchester does not feel "invaded" by german beer (our newest weapon) wink.gif
Slackmack
Colchester, lovely town. Enjoy your stay.
zwackel
I guess i will. Its one of the oldest towns in england, right ?
Slackmack
QUOTE
Its one of the oldest towns in england, right ?

Not too sure about that, but it is Britains oldest Garrison town.
That Bloke Off The Radio
Think you might be getting confused with the old Roman settlement, Chelmsford in Essex - Certainly older than Colchester.
Slackmack
Naw, I aint. I come from a small village between the two towns near Witham and there is a massive road sign on the outskirts of Colchester proclaiming the fact.

extract from BrainyEncyclopedia:

QUOTE
Roman Colchester
Colchester is the oldest recorded Roman town in England, although it existed as a Celtic settlement before the Roman conquest and there is archaeological evidence of settlement 3,000 years ago. Its Celtic name was "Camulodunon", meaning "the Fortress of Camulos". (Camulos was the Celtic god of war.) This name was modified to the Roman spelling of "Camulodunum" (written "CAMVLODVNVM").
Camulodunum was the capital of the Catuvellauni tribe. King Cunobelinus (or "Cunobelin") (Cymbeline in William Shakespeare's play and "Old King Cole" of the nursery rhyme) was ruler of the Catuvellauni when the Romans invaded Britain in 43.

A Roman legionary fortress was established at Colchester in 43. This was the first permanent legionary fortress to be built in Britain. Later, when the Roman frontier moved north (c. 49), Colchester became a colonia known as Colonia Claudia Victricensis (written "COLONIA CLAVDIA VICTRICENSIS"). Colchester was the first Roman capital of Britain before this was later moved to the more accessible site of London.

A Roman monumental temple was built at Colchester in c. 44 and was dedicated to the Emperor Claudius as The Temple of the Divine Claudius. The temple was completely destroyed during Boudicca's rebellion in 61.

Colchester was the only place in the province of Britannia where samian ware was produced (for a short time). Roman brick making and wine growing also took place in the area. Bricks have been made in Colchester (or in the surrounding area) for around 2,000 years.

Many Roman mosiacs and artefacts have been found in subsequent archaelogical digs in the town and some can be seen at the Colchester Castle museum. The Roman walls still survive (they are the most complete in the country) and they contain the largest surviving Roman gateway in Britain. Many holes have been cut in the walls over the years and the history of the whole town can be seen in its surviving structure. Today, medieval buttresses, shops and steps can still be seen and walked on.
That Bloke Off The Radio
Sorry Slack. I was replying to the other guy when I typed that - I wasn't absolutely sure and your telling him you weren't sure either made me think it was probably Chelmsford.
Never was much good at history! rolleyes.gif
zwackel
Anyway, if its the oldest english town or the oldest roman settlement outside italy (?), my first way will leed me to a pub. Maybe my whife, who is actually italian, might be interested in roman culture.
Not that i am some sort of a philistine, but imho ruins are not the smartest way to learn something about the english people today. (gosh i hate my sentence structures).
That Bloke Off The Radio
As long as you can structure the following sentence you'll be just fine: "Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps please" biggrin.gif
zwackel
That shouldn't be a problem.
What worries me more, is how to pronunce that sentence when its not the first order wink.gif
Hellie
biggrin.gif and welcome to the Board zwackel smile.gif
zwackel
Thanks alot ! smile.gif

Buy the way, may i ask some of you a question about the english language ? (my last "off-topic-post" in this thread, promise !)

How much authentic is the english spoken by the e.g. newsreader in bbc world (the only british channel i can pick up in my telly) in comparison to the english of some ordinary bloke (is that word still used in britain?) from the street ?
I recently listened to a song by "the streets" and i have to admit, that it took me more than just one try to catch on the text. If this will happen while i'm in england, i'd better start training to say "i beg your pardon"...
Nicole
If you are going to Essex you will find that they speak "estuary English" which is a lot different to BBC English. It sounds like cockney and is hard to describe. Maybe a google search would help. For example the t on the end of a word is dropped so 'have not' would sound like "av no' ( you do not use the tongue to pronounce the final T) The D on the end of a word sounds like a T. So dropped sounds like dropt. People from Essex and London also speak very quickly. I have German friends extremely fluent in English but when I speak they have trouble understanding me unti they get used to me. After a few days you will start to get it. It's a bit like going from Bayern to Hamburg and the dialect differences. Be thankful you are not going to Glasgow for your first experience of the English language!! biggrin.gif
zwackel
Hello Nicole,

that example with Bayern and Hamburg you gave me is somehow scaring me... huh.gif

I've been a few times in Bayern and their dialect still sounds like a completly different language to me. Also the people there do act (at least) strange when meeting strangers (wordplay;) ), even to germans, and getting quite angry when someone does not understand them. Maybe this it just a bad expirience and an exception...

Are there any british celebritys i might know (tricky question,ok) who are speaking (or singing) in that accent ?

About Glasgow:
I am not quite familiar with the "scottish-english" but isn't it so, that the scottish people close every phrase just like asking a question ? (i mean the accentuation). I Recently watched the movie "braveheart" in english and besides of Mel Gibsons imitated scottish dialect i could understand almost everything. Maybe this isn't a good example at all ?!?

Anyway, thank you for the short explanation ! smile.gif
That Bloke Off The Radio
Interesting you should ask the question about celebrities.

Although he grew up in the East End one of our TV presenters, Jonathon Ross speaks with a sort of Esutuary English type accent and he also speaks German!

Mind you everyone has trouble understanding him as he has a speech impediment that means the letter "r" sounds like "w" - So "everyone" becomes "ever-we-one" and trouble becomes "twouble" ohmy.gif
Nicole
If you've ever watched Eastenders then you will have heard the London/Essex accent or else listen to BBC London if you have DSL and you will get an idea of the regional accent. Danny Baker click on more links below then interview archive 04 and scroll down to Jamie Oliver. He comes from exactly the area you are looking for as he is from an area about 10 kms from Chelmsford. If you can understand both of them you'll be fine!!
Failing that phone me up and i'll teach ya de lingo
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