Anyone paying church tax?

I ve been paying it for years, I didnt know how much I had been paying them till I realised KS meant church tax!. so went to the local rathouse and took the stand to opt OUT. Again!..they wanted more money for this procedure as if they hadnt had enough! So feeling like a sinner I signed the dotted line!
Anyway...that was back in March!, and every time my loan comes through it still has the flippen KS and im still paying them???
I asked the "up his own arse chef" in work about it and he said I should get it back at the end of the year...A "Arbeitcollegue" tells me NO! I MUST obtain my loansteuer karte and give it to the rat haus! I ve asked in work..but it still hasnt come from the "chef up his own arse", ! and Im still left paying towards the church.
Has anyone else ever ausgetreten?? did you stop paying immediately? did u need your loansteuer karte to give to rathaus or did it happen automatically?
I suppose I should go to local rathaus to speak to the "ever so friendlypeople" there :rolleyes:an find out exactly whats going on, but its usually closed when I come outta work.

I ve got to go an pack now...off to the UK on Friday and probby end up taking everything but the...küchewanne

shannon what i know is you haff to go to the amtsgericht and and fill out a form out. from ther it goes on and they only can do it .that is what they do in paderborn
only ask them

http://www.ibka.org/artikel/ag00/gebuehr.html

hope i did help

My wife did it. She asked her boss for her Steurkarte. Went to the Stadtverwaltung, told them she had left the Church and didn't want to pay Church Tax. They entered it manually on her card and imput her details into the computer. End of the next calendar month she had stopped paying it.

if you have a religion like anglican you don't have to pay church tax in germany and also not, if you don't have any religion at all. Do what Dusty said and they will change your Lohnsteuerkarte and from next month on you won't pay it anymore.

You cant just stop paying it, because if it's on your tax card it goes off automatically. But you can get your money back from the church where you paid the money to. Was it evangelic or catholic or what? They will send you a letter soon, why you have left them (though you never been in). Just tell them that your english and they will pay you back

When they asked you about your religion when you registered in Germany, what did you say, you were? My boyfriend said anglican and they put evangelisch on the card

urgh (edited this 4 times yet, hope now it's ok to understand what I am trying to say? :$ )

sorry Hannah, you will have to try noch einmal.

All the other posts are gefüllt with German wörter - your four Versuche managed to fit a peinliche total of two deutsche words into three und einhalb paragraphs.

Go to my Zimmer, you naughty Mädel!

Don't know whether this might help anyone but just in case...

When I was here as a student I put catholic on my form not thinking twice about it as I wasn't paying taxes then. Returning years later to work I filled in my Anmeldungsformular and said I had no religion (being a very lapsed catholic there was no way I was paying church tax). They cross-checked and discovered my earlier form and tried to say that I had to go through the rigmarole of officially leaving the church and pay the fee for doing so. BUT it turned out that I didn't. UK birth certificates don't have our religion on them, and so in the eyes of German law I was never legally a member of the RC church and so couldn't actually deregister. I kept very quiet about the baptism certificate I think my mum has somewhere. So although I had to endure a lecture on a) my fraudulent claim to be RC on a form when I was a student and the heathen ways of the British which proves how appalling a country we are, I never had to pay anything or officially austreten. Maybe someone else can try this...

Neither my wife nor myself pay KS, but our local vicar was more than happy to christian our daughter. Although for a free lunch and a couple of glasses of wine I thik he'd do anything. (And if you're reading this Vic, that was a joke.)

Thanks for the replies everyone
Hannah..I wrote on the form that I was Roman Cath.not really knowing that Id have to pay so much.

My procedure at the local Rathaus was to listen to some paragraph of Gott knows what lol Pay them more money! and then sign to get out of the church society.

Today I asked "Herrman the German"( one of the ok bosses) if he had my Loansteuerkarte as Im still paying this Church tax, "Noch Nicht":) was the reply ( think he actually forgot to get on to whoever has got it)

Its been 4 months since I signed the opting out form but im still paying? Hopefully I ll get my money back at a later date...but knowing Deutschland...I ll probably have to pay them for causing them more unnecessary inconvenience.

A3 thanks for the website..I shall look it up now

go to the rathaus and tell them you are Church of England
I have never paid church tax in all my 29 years of being here
and i am proud of it...

When I came here 10 years ago the company I work on inserted in religion box on initial form (assume for tax purposes) and without telling me 'Church of England' and result was I am exempt.
Wife (German) as non earner pays a small contribution every year to keep here membership alive so that kids may get married in the church etc

Many German colleagues have dropping out of church membership in past few years.

brgds

I'm baptised into the C of E, but I can’t claim to be religious in any shape or form, I started off not paying church tax until my wife stopped working to raise our family and wanted me to pay it for her, (she is Evangelisch), The old biddy in the Stadtamt still remembers my wife after 15-years because of her mad request, no body had before or since gone in and requested to pay it.

well it's not the question if you can claim to be religious or not. I can't neither but have to pay. Church of England is just not assesable in Germany

If you start your own religion up an alp in the allgau can you claim funds from the goverment out of the church tax fund?

I'll be bishop and need two volunteers one to ring the bells and the other to type the sermon.

can I look after the communion wine ???

As long as you keep away from the choirboys!!

do I get to play with the organ ...

only the organ not the organs

awwwwwww ... cassacks ...

It seems that being in the Church of England does actually mean you're supposed to pay church tax.

From the Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (apologies for the following being in German but I can't be arsed translating it):

Ausländer sind kirchensteuerpflichtig, wenn sie in der Bundesrepublik ihren Wohnsitz oder gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt haben und sie einer steuerberechtigten Religions-gemeinschaft angehören. Die Staatsangehörigkeit spielt dabei keine Rolle. Auch ist es gleichgültig, ob in ihrem Heimatland Kirchensteuer erhoben wird oder nicht. Die Kirchenangehörigkeit im Sinne des Kirchensteuergesetzes und damit Kirchensteuer-pflicht des zuziehenden Ausländers wird begründet durch die Bekenntnisverwandt-schaft der Heimatkirche mit einer der steuererhebungsberechtigten Religionsge-meinschaften im Bundesgebiet. Als "evangelisch" wurden in der Rechtsprechung des Preußischen Oberverwaltungsgerichts alle Kirchen angesehen, die sich zu den Grundsätzen der Reformation bekennen(2); mithin jedenfalls die Lutheraner, Reformierten und Unierten. Kirchengemeinschaft haben z.B. die Unterzeichner der Leuenberger Konkordie reformatorischer Kirchen gebildet. 1983 haben ihr 81 Kirchen zugestimmt und damit ihre evangelische Bekenntnisverwandtschaft dokumentiert. Ausländische Arbeitnehmer, die Mitglied einer dieser Kirchen sind, sind bei Vorliegen der übrigen Voraussetzungen im Bundesgebiet grundsätzlich kirchensteuerpflichtig. Aus einer Vielzahl der Rechtsprechungsfälle sei beispielhaft genannt: Kirchensteuerpflicht wird bejaht bei Zuzug aus dem Bereich der Dänischen Volkskirche, der Evangelisch-lutherischen Kirche in Finnland, der Evangelischen Kirchengemeinden in Österreich, der Church of England im Vereinigten Königreich.

I think though that whether they actually expect you to pay tax or not depends on the individual Rathaus and whether they've managed to work out whether CofE makes you steuerpflichtig or not.

The last time I went through this rigmarole, I made the mistake of putting "Evangelisch" in the religion box and I've been clobbered for tax ever since. However, I'm on the point of registering again in a new area and this time I'll put Church of England and see what they make of it...

Why not just say "Keine"?

I had thought about it, but I figure they're more likely to kick up a stink if I suddenly appear to have left the church without any corresponding pieces of paper from the authorities to verify this, than if I simply specify what my religion is and (hopefully) confuse them that way.

Fair point, and you may be right with the confusion theory. The fact is that even if you did officially remove yourself from the C of E, you probably wouldn't get any paperwork that would satisfy them here. Fortunately, I decided from day one that I didn't belong to any religion, which is actually fact, even if I do have a baptism certificate from the Church of Scotland.

I totally sympathise with you re the church tax it happened to me and what makes it more annoying is that I was forewarned / how stupid is that?

I shall know at the end of this month(pay day) if Im finally off the Church Tax register! I actually did all the signings back in March!!. All I needed after that was my Loan SteuerKarte which my boss kept forgetting to send away for ! After 5 months of reminding him and still paying Church Tax I mentioned it to a Union member...who said she would sort it ... 2 days later my Loan Steuer Karte arrived by post!
I Went straight to Rathaus who typed more details an said okay Alles Klar.
So HOPEFULLY alls gone through! and all in good time before the Church taxes me on my Weinachts Geld!

I should also get backdated tax from when i actually signed out in March

Just a quick update here:

Since my move to Stuttgart in the summer, I've just received my new Lohnsteuerkarte 2005 and under Kirchensteuerabzug it says...

"--"

:excl: :excl:

So they really didn't know what to make of Church of England!

Sister in law made the mistake of putting down Protestant thinking they just wanted to know. Naturally she ended up paying tax, fortunately it was near the end of the year and when her new tax card arrived she went to the Rathaus and changed it to none. End of tax deduction, no problems.

She was fortunate then because when I tried to change it after making the mistake of putting Evangelisch, they simply enclosed a photocopy of the declaration I'd made at the time (marking the word Evangelisch with a highlighter pen, the sarky gits!) and refused to budge. It would have taken the ridiculous hassle of officially leaving the Church with the appropriate papers to convince them (which for personal reasons I didn't want to have to do).

As with so many areas of life in Germany (e.g. permanently carrying a passport with you, but let's not get into that one again...), it seems that it just depends on who's dealing with you and how they interpret the rules.

Nobody 'has to' pay church tax in Germany!!!

It doesn't matter if you go to your local Ev. or Kath. church every day either. It is a VOLUNTARY tax. If you want to be sure your local vicar has his annual holiday in Grand Cayman or you like the church lawn to look 'just so' then that the that is up to you - just keep paying the tax.
If you want to help the poor in Africa there are other ways to give your hard-earned cash to them rather than use a middle-man (the local government & churches) who also employ people to manage the money and who have to cover their 'admin costs' when distributing it.

Not paying the tax doesn't mean you cannot go to a church service - you don't need to show your membership card when you walk in the door.
What it does mean is that you cannot get 'benefits', such as: a burial service, a baptism or a marriage blessing in church (you can't get even get legally married in church in Germany - you have to go to the Registrar's Office for that).

When you get here, just say "no religion" for your Tax Card. If you're already paying it, just sign the form to opt out of it.

Yes, but if you have to put "no religion" on your Tax Card, you are essentially lying in order to not pay the Church Tax, which means it's not actually voluntary at all, is it? That's just a way of getting round paying it.

If you put down that you are Evangelical or whatever, you will automatically have to pay the Church Tax, and the only way of getting out of it is to officially "leave the church".

You can still attend services at your Church every Sunday, but cannot do things like get married (or rather have the marriage blessing) there, burial service etc etc.
Also, interestingly enough, you cannot be a Godparent if you aren't a paid-up member of the Church. At least, this was our experience when my sister-in-law wanted her brother, my husband, to be Godparent to one of her children. The local vicar would't let him because my husband had left the church (not long after meeting me actually! )

I had Irish friends who said they had "left the church" in order to stop paying church tax. 2 years later they returned to Ireland to get married, and their local priest told them that he could not marry them because they had left the church.

You aren't lying if you put "--", you are just opting out of German institutionalised religion. Anyway, why should the taxman get to know about my make-believe friend? I did ask him if it was OK, and he said he'd still be my buddy if I put "--" on the form.

Completely agree with Luke.

What do you mean "you're lying"? What you're doing is opting out of paying a tax and not opting out of a religion. Do you think God really cares if you don't pay the church tax but give your money direct to poor people???

In fact, God will probably be happier that you're not (indirectly) sponsoring pervert Catholic (or Protestant maybe) priests.

And it is voluntary... name me another tax I can opt out of paying.

I just meant that if you do in fact belong to one of the religions which require you to pay Church Tax, and you claim not to belong to it by putting "--" on your Tax Form, that is in fact not telling the truth. There is no "I'd rather not say" option, which would surely be the fairest way of making this a truly voluntary tax.

I wouldn't know what God prefers or doesn't prefer, but I do think this is another good reason for keeping state and religion separate. If I want to donate money to a good cause, whatever it is, I can do it directly myself.

Like you, I'm also somewhat sceptical about what the Church Tax money is actually spent on - is it for helping poor people or rather "(indirectly) sponsoring pervert Catholic (or Protestant maybe) priests"?

This link: Church Tax is quite interesting on the subject, particulary this bit:

"However, it must be clearly stated that the deliberate avoidance of the church tax is a criminal offence that is prosecuted as any other tax fraud. A world wide net of information between parishes is established to keep trace of the individual believer.

The payment of the church tax has quite successfully been avoided by not informing your current parish of your new residence in Germany, and by just not indicating your religious belief when registering with the local town council your new residence in Germany. The only legal way to avoid church tax is to quit your church, by unilateral, formal declaration; although a notarial deed is in most German Länder admitted, there exist other requirements in some of the Länder or churches."

I'm trying to find some other info on this to check if it's really true!

I have NEVER been a church member nor paid ANY church tax but got married in a German church with all the trimmings ! Explain this ?

Did you by chance have your pirate outfit on?

Of course he was dressed as a Pirate! He got round the church tax by 'Tipping the black spot' to the minister...

i didn't have my Pirate kit on but got caught and sentenced ...for a lifetime :doh:

put C of E on all my forms and have NEVER paid church tax.

Emily

That link is talking complete sh*t (excuse my Anglo-Saxon). The comment isn't aimed personally at you, by the way.

The church tax was a tax drawn up in a deal between the major churches (principally the Catholic church) and the German government after WW2, to ensure a strong Religious presence in Germany (the intention of which is of course to avoid a repetition of the lack of moral backbone displayed in 1930's Germany). It's essentially a racket.

If I do not opt of the the tax but still avoid paying it, then I would be committing an offence (maybe I could avoid paying if I am self-employed for example, but I wouldn't be able to do it if I'm an Angestelter), since according to my taxcard I should be paying the money. If I opt out of the tax and have my updated taxcard showing I am opted out, then I cannot be 'avoiding' any tax.

The churches have their membership lists of course (those people who pay the tax are members), so if you want a service from an organised church (member of this tax swindle) then they check your name against their membership lists. Fair enough; if you're not a card-carrying member of the church you don't get the privileges associated with membership, such as baptism of your kids.

I can still go to any church service and still worship there whenever I want. There is still a collection box in which I could put 8% of my gross income every month whenever I want. If I go to church every Sunday but do not pay any church tax, I am not committing any offence.

PS : Here's a short but humourous (depends on your sense of humour) article about this subject.

One person's story.

How can you opt out of something if you havent officialy joined in the first place...Do you get money for joining?

Church tax story at Deutsche Welle.

ive never paid it i told them i was a druid and until they build me a stonehenge
they wil get nowt from me
is the anything ele we can opt out of?

That's what my husband tells the Jehovas when they come round. I'm sure they send the ones in training round to us because he either tells them that or that we're devil worshippers and could they tell him how Jehova himself would look upon that. It's fun to watch them stutter and try and reply to that one