How long did it take you to learn German?

Been here 24 years and went through all the rigmarole of books and lessons.After being here 3 years and then having a bad accident i picked up the lingo by being surrounded by it 24 hours a day.German tele,radio and the people.Was frustrating at the beginning but i had the advantage of being one of the very few English here.
So i was forced to learn it as there was no way out of it.Never had spoke German except for the few words i got out of the Victor comic when i was younger

Took me a year or two I suppose. I cannot really remember as it was a gradual transition. I learnt by doing - not one hour of school whatsoever. Within 5 years people did not know I was a Brit speaking German but in fact a born and bred Augsburger. Not sure if that was a compliment or not though

This nigguh has been in Germsamany for 2 years now...guess what?! I don't speak a fucking word. i figure they'll eventually convert to God's language (english) anyway, so what's the point?

I took it in high school and college and later on my own here and there. That gave me a foundation, but nothing resembling true ability.

When I arrived, I did two immersion courses back to back. The first was moderate, the second was intense. I read everything I could get my hands on and procured a TV. My ability increased by leaps and bounds, but not without hitting the occasional wall. A prior poster said practice and perserverance. Very true.

By the time I left, I was fluent or nearly so. The funny thing is I would still have the good days and bad days. On good days, I could debate the ramifications of Ostpolitik. On bad days, I struggled while speaking with a banking officer.

The grammer is very difficult, but after a time, you develop a rhythm and it just starts to flow.

I agree with what several posters said earlier in this thread - German seems hard at the beginning, but once you've mastered the basics of the grammar, it doesn't get worse. I did French and German A-levels at school in England - over 30 years ago - and at the beginning French seemed easier than German, but by the time I was taking my final school exams I realised that German was the easier language. A few tips:

Do try to get a good grasp of the grammar right from the start, otherwise you'll get into the habit of saying things wrong and it will be a very hard habit to break later.

Try to avoid thinking of what you want to say in English and then translating it into German. Instead, listen as much as possible to Germans talking. Take note of what they say in certain situations, what words and idioms they use to express things, and then imitate them.

Build up your vocabulary by reading newspaper articles with a highlighter pen in your hand. Mark any unfamiliar words, and when you've finished reading, look them up in a dictionary. I managed to teach myself Italian and Spanish that way.

I agree also that German is harder at the beginning. So much bullshit grammar, but once you have that down you can really learn.

I've been going to German class at the VHS for 18 months now, 3 times a week, 3 hours per lesson. When I came I knew nothing, and since being over here I have always worked in English, spoke to friends in English, and really had only a small amount of contact with German speaking people. I'm going to do 6 months more worth of classes, and then I reckon I'll be sorted to finish up on my own.

I think the real trick is living in the language, something that I haven't done. If you did that, you'd learn a lot quicker, and with less lessons.

Well, it's going on 15 years now...started at GCSE, then A Level and then uni. It takes some time.

I would say that grammar is of course important, but what is equally as important is learning the gender of the words...by that i mean if it is der, die, oder das Tisch. You can understand the grammar perfectly but if you don't know what gender the word is, then you are buggered!! That is still my weak point and it's only due to the fact that I was lazy at the beginning - regret that now!


I agree with you on this point, but only if you start speaking German from the start. If you start off speaking English you will never swap to German, no matter how good you get. Have seen this happen too often...I have been with my boyfriend now for nearly 3 years and have always spoken German with each other. My German has improved the most over the past 3 years...

As for what don_riina said about his mate reading kids' books - i did that too. Why start with War and Peace when you're not going to understand a word? Start with Harry Potter where the language is easier and less taxing and you'll understand more and it'll be more enjoyable

I find German very difficult . I've been living here for 6 years and still find it a struggle.
I come from a strong afrikaans background...and that only helped with pronunciation. Other than that it was more of a stumbling block than a stepping stone.
I can say 'Marienplatz'...rather than the 'Marionpleats' I often hear from my dear expat friends.

I have now learnt to use all the experiences life throws my way to get to learn German in that situation.
An example...my son had an operation some weeks ago. I now know what a 'röntgen bild' is.
A family member of one of our neighbours passed away. From that experience I know how to say condolences in German.
My other favorite is expressions. Germans love to explain the meaning and origin, and I try and use them the next time I can.
This way learning German has become less stressful and much more fun.
According to my German husband I am fluent...but I'm not so sure. We're only married for six years...he still believes that I'm the best thing since sliced bread.

signed Mrs Tom34

The only way to fluency (IMO) is to learn like a child does: be in a German environment and learn by osmosis. Books and things may help but may also confuse the issue (or make an issue where there does not need to be one). Which of us (aside from those of you who studied languages) really knows English grammar (in a technical sense)? That does not seem to prevent most of us from composing readable prose. Yes, you need to know some grammar, but if you are like me and have no head for that nonsense (auf dem Tisch???) then forget about it and realize that it too will come with time.

If you can get yourself in a situation where you cannot use your English you will be amazed how quickly you become fluentisch. As for learning from a CD, that`s not even going to get you past a Bavarian waitress...

I've been learning properly for about 12 months after a few false starts with lessons here and there. I have a tutor for an hour and a half once a week which really helps me with the basic grammar. I think eveyone learns at their own pace, depending on the need or desire. As many people around me speak English, this reduces the need. I still have the desire. Seems so frustrating at times as I want to able to run before I can walk.

I guess having a German partner and German colleagues is very helpful as I can now understand a lot more than I could 12 months ago.

I also managed to borrow a book from my 5 year old neighbour and am even struggling with that, so I guess I've still got a lot to learn.

This should have been with a caveat that a. you speak the target language and b. your other half attempt to correct you some what so that you do improve.

But still great way to learn since they cant't get away from you so easy!!!


I think Spanish is deceptive since the grammar is easier if not easy and the latin link means their are many cognitives to English but in my experience Spanish people complain that many so called "Advanced" foreign Spanish speakers butcher their language by not using the subjunctive and more advanced things like style and form...

And that is why utlimately I think you need to tackle a language like a Marriage...if you want it to last you need to put the effort in and realise that it will be a life long commitment!!! But also ultimately you will never 100% understand your partner even after 40 years...

A excellent example is open a dictionary on any page in your target language and see how many words that you know and if a word has multiple meanings if you never every one...A lesson in humility!!! Even for those that say they are fluent... Says the guy who reads dictionary for fun...

I used to think that being fluent in a language meant knowing the meaning of every word - until i then realised that this meant that i was not fluent in my own mother tongue!!

I think some people (myself included) expect too much from themselves to begin with. Everyone learns at a different pace and find some things easier than others. Therefore, it is difficult to put a time limit on when one should be able to understand/converse to a certain level.

Took me about a year to be able to converse reasonably but I had the advantage of being stuck in the country with a German family who couldn't speak a word of English (bloody heathens;) except for the son who was there for two weeks before he left to join the Bundeswehr. He pressed a piece of paper into my hand before leaving with useful German words and phrases but apart from that I had nothing.

It was quite a laugh, they had a vineyard and orchard (yes I became alcoholic;)). I remember helping the father's brother to move apples from a cellar to second and third story storage areas with an industrial lift. He'd call "ab" to I'd press "up" whereupon he'd scream "ab, ab, ab du Idiot" and I'd reply "mach ich doch".

That is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. I did my alchoholiker training under the master tutelage of a Bavarian hunter/mechanic.

His favorite expression (when seeing my work) was (whilst shaking his head) `Russische Arbeit...`

I learned German in one summer when I was a kid (about 4 or 5) so I guess that's kinda cheating. My parents (Mom was German) wanted my sister and myself to learn and we didn't want to so they dumped us with German relatives who spoke very little (if any) English for an entire summer. We learned pretty fast. I've made improvements since then, obviously, but that was when/how long it took me to learn.

It took me about 7ish months. I was in a language school everyday in the morning, however. Living in Cham (right in the Bavarian Forest, certainly improved things). No one there spoke a word of English! I read the SDZ on the train to Regensburg, and watched only German TV. That certainly helped things.

I found that when I moved to Munich everything was so easy to understand after hearing the Oberpfalz dialect!

Unfortunately, after having an English-speaking job for 4 months, my German is considerably getting worse and worse, sigh.

Time to sign myself up for language classes!

Or you could practice with your boy toy...

Oh no, thats terrible (note to self to do same to children with French grandmother), but I guess you got the payoff now!

I've been speaking German now for 20 years and I'm still not 'perfect'. I think it took me a little over a year to be 'competent' in German. Mistake number one was that I gave up on grammar in the beginning when I had my one and only 6 weeks intensive German course. I think I should have made more of an effort back then, even here in Bavaria where a lot of grammar can be flubbed over anyway. But back then, I was desperate to just communicate. I was totally immersed in a German family setting and no one spoke much English, so in order not to lose all hope, I concentrated on vocabulary. Later, the classes were over and who's interested in studying grammar in their spare time?
For many years now, I'm even capable of being quite witty and articulate in German, but I still occasionally find that if I'm nervous, German words are the first to blank out and to this day I avoid writing in German whenever possible due to the certainty of grammar mistakes.

No way Bern, his "high German" is as bad as mine now!

He speaks Bavarian - and I mean deep, warbly, totally incomprehensible Bavarian.

I couldn't understand a word between him and his mother last week. That's when I knew that I was losing my grasp of German!

Don't worry, luv. You're German is fine. Bavarian isn't German...it's a completely different language.

It's not as bad as all that. Kids learn so fast that it really wasn't an issue. Do it while they are young enough, though, as it will give them the opportunity to develop a feel for the language as well as speak accent free.

That is my plan, though she speaks English too, so it might not work perfectly. I have plenty of Polish relatives I could dump them on though, that speak no English. I am biased but I think Polish has a lovely accent

The short answer to the question would be - I've been here 2 years and I haven't finished learning German yet. It's a work in progress. Like me really. Now for the slightly longer answer ...

I learned a little bit of German when I was a kid from Bavarian and Austrian family friends - mostly stuff you wouldn't use in polite conversation. Promptly forgot that upon learning Chinese at school and again at uni. Forgot all of that when I went back to uni again and learned German (properly this time) for another three years where I was probably the worst student in the class. Forgot most of the German I learned when I went to Japan - except the basic structures - which, as it turned out were all I needed to build on, and this seemed to get me by when I was on holidays in Germany and Austria so I didn't do anything more about German til I started residing here.

When I first came to live in Germany I stayed in the bavarian countryside where no one could speak a word of English which meant that I was forced to listen carefully and to speak - even when I wasn't entirely sure of what I was saying! Within my first month here my German improved in leaps and bounds just by speaking and imitating the people I heard using the basic knowledge that I already had. Then I went and stuffed everything up by moving to the city and speaking English for the best part of a year!

Thankfully I started to improve again onced I moved to a place lacking in opportunities to speak English, started dating a German guy, hanging out with German people and making myself watch German tv. Now (a year after moving to Essen) I can pretty much talk about anything I want to and take an active part in all sorts of discussions although my grammar can be a little bit hit and miss ... and sometimes I forget vocabulary. This has been slightly complicated by the fact I started taking classes in another language (French - which is the hardest language I have ever tried to learn. Some people find it really easy - I am not one of them). Sometimes my accent is barely noticeable and other times it sounds strong. I have good days and bad days. Realistically, I know I will never be able to speak grammatically perfect German without an accent and that German people don't really expect that from me. The main thing is to understand and be understood.

I bought grammar books to help me supplement the practical learning and iron out my grammar issues (for those occassions when I can discipline myself to sit down and use them) but mostly I prefer to learn by doing and hope that my German friends are nice enough to correct me when I make mistakes as I remember better that way. The downside to learning in this fashion ie. not attending formal German classes (where they focus on grammar) is that whilst my speaking and listening are passable, my writing is terrible. Thankfully I am rarely called upon to write anything in German!

I really don't understand why you are buggered if you don't know the article. In fact, I would say this makes no difference at all and is actually the least most important thing about the language. The only disadvantage when not knowing them, is that native speakers will realise that you are not really German, and if you're at that level then you need not worry. If I spoke German like a native, but said "die" for every article, I would be quite happy enough! It is still important I think to learn the articles with the words, but it is definitely right down the bottom of priorities.


Trouble is, that almost all adults cannot learn like this. That is why I think for an adult it is actually important to sit down and study the language.

I agree, you have to work on it, but if you want to be fluent, you need to know it (i.e. not have to think about it). If it does not come naturally (and after some amount of time it does) it will always be... unnatural.

Well, that's where you and I differ. To have a (95%) flawless accent and then to speak like a foreigner makes no sense to me...

And I have to write it too for my job so then getting the endings wrong is just not an option!!

I've been here 18 years now and I think my German is crap although everyone says its pretty good. I didn't do any classes, etc. when I came but went drinking by myself in German bars and kept away from the insular expat crowd. Nearly all my friends here are German, including the missus, and we do most things together such as partying, holidaying, etc. I actually don't work very much in Germany anymore but do deal with a lot of German companies so German speaking is a must and I've never had a problem, I just can't write it very well (bloody atrociously in fact) so most mails are in German.

The first 6 years were spent in an English speaking environment which doesn't help and then I jumped straight into a pure German speaking envinronment for work which was great, picked up the necessary in not time and ignored the rest. If I have problems then I just think of the English sentence and then say it backwards! The biggest problem I have now is when working in the UK or USA or dealing with native English speakers, I actually forget words and need to work out from German to English what I'm going to say.

I think most people on this thread are more concerned about understanding people and speaking so people can understand them.

If you really know the language this well and want to improve, you can get 80% of the articles correct by just learning some rules. For example, words with -keit and -ung endings are "die". A lot of the time words ending in "e" are also "die". Anyway, there are about 30 rules to learn, after which you will get most things correct.

Same with endings of adjectives, there are rules, you just have to sit down and learn them. If you are already good at German, it will take you only a couple of hours.

The grammar and vocab are much more important in my opinion, and this is definitely a lot harder.

In my experience rope learning doesn't wash (maybe it is my shitty brain). This tables and systems approach means using a certain part of your brain that calculates... This in my opinion, means you speak too slowly as you constantly have to calculate...so dinner party conversations in German become a chore or you miss your turn in the conversation.

Since I speak German to my wife and friends I found that words or sentence just sound right or not - because I've heard them enough... I think there is linquistic studies for this type of thing and that in the latter case you are using another part of your brain and this part requires less stopping and calculating.

Since I'm anal, I'm always asking my wife about how I sound and she just laughd at me and says she doesnt in general listen to the way I'm speaking but to what I'm saying...and she thinks my obsession about Der, Die and Das and Cases is tedious. But one day I would like to be able to write...so I keep on trying...

For English speakers who want to just speak and have fluency - I would reckon trying quickly to learn Der, Die and Das and the Cases and then move on...just speak...and guess them...at most it sounds as irrating as a foreigner saying in English.

I would like A apple rather than AN apple. (The focus is on the apple not A nor AN).

Just some of my thoughts...

Rubbish, just add some bavarian twang to your voice and forget every gender by muffling your words. Simple shit. Only works for TT members in Bavaria really I s'pose, but its the only half decent bit of Germany anyway,so if you live in some other place, screw you.

been here for about 12 years and still have prblems with telephone german and writing and reading my friend andy can speak and understand but only amongst people with strangers especially beamters there is always a problem I think you must just speak and f**k the grammer

It took me about ten mins, easy really.

Have been here 3 years and sometimes I kinda beat myself up about my German, and my German work colleague teases me a bit. I work 80-90% in English.

But I just picked up the phone to one of my German suppliers to discuss a delivery and some product changes etc. We kinda kicked off in English, but my supplier was struggling a bit, so I switched it into German and we banged straight through - much easier for both of us.

Little stuff like that makes me chuffed - my supplier speaks kinda OK english I think probably, but today - my German was better :-)

I could speak passable german after about 2 years. I cant spell in english so have no chance in German.

The company I mostly do work for, the company language is English and all the Germans have to speak it if there is 1 non German present, they are all happy to do this as they all want to improve their English. What chance do we have with even the French having an English news chanel.

I think the EU should bite the bullet and set a date for English to be the Euro language.

I have been here nearly 8 years and my German is good but not fluent - and as per German friends, I have a delightful British twang when I speak it - hmmmm.

"Officially" English is the main language in my current office but I will speak German to my German colleagues and as I'm the only foreigner in my team our team meetings are in German and then the department meetings are in English... I found watching German TV helped pick up the language - did a few night courses at the VHS but learnt the most from mates and simply watching TV.

This is currently close to my heart, so some things which cropped up reading through the topic and also to say hello.

Hello! Okay that's sorted, but this is going to veer off-topic, can feel it in my bones.

Our understanding of a native tongue is special - it's like the difference between designing a computer chip for a specific task, and using one to run a new program. We "just know" so many things and it's often really hard to speak slowly in your native language. I've found in talking to colleagues from around the world that I can do it for maybe a minute and then can't help speeding up. One of the folk I've met has said it's the same for him when he tries to speak slowly to me in German. Oh, how I wish this was not the case !

Given the skills and goals of different people, maybe there is no one best way to learn. A friend has been learning Portuguese, and used the Hugo "in three months" approach - okay, it would need a linguistic savant to make good that promise, but she has enjoyed it and her goal was to be able to express herself verbally as soon as possible. My approach to German has been different, bordering on self-flagellation - I got hold of Hammer and a thick dictionary, then locked myself away while in Ireland until both were dog-eared. Embarrassing result - I can write about feelings, possibilities, and relate stories - but three weeks here and asking for a loaf of bread is only just becoming reality. So many things we take for granted nowadays, like making a telephone call - to anyone.

Film soundtracks and subtitles are great. Usually they don't match, so you see how things can be said in different ways. Do be careful over unknown words from soundtracks though, at a birthday party in Bösel I shouted (precisely at a gap in the loud music) "Was bedeutet Bumsmaschine ?" ...

Not having learnt enough vocabulary is fun, calls on your inventiveness, and makes good entertainment for friends. A slice of bread was "one of those, which remain, when one has cut the bread" - lifted the mood.

Unless one planned to live only among expats, there is surely no decision to make. I've met with so much friendliness and helpfulness, without which things would have been obscenely hard - and from the horse's mouth been told it wouldn't have happened without efforts to learn German. What's better still, for the first time in 35 years I have a granny. No lie - "Ohne Adoption darfst du mich als deine Oma ansehen" - don't suppose this will wash with the Ausländerbehörde though.

Back on topic ... health and a daunting job hunt willing, current estimate is thirty years or so

Colin XX

i've been here for a year, and while i'm functional, i'm far from fluent. i went to a language school for the first 6 months, so i know the grammar, but my biggest problem is vocabulary...i still don't have all the verbs that i need!

and as for bayerisch, forget it.

I've been here two years and haven't put in any effort whatsoever. I can understand enough but can't speak a word, even tho my vocabulary is sizeable enough to

very true! i never know the genders, so i just say "da" in front of the words...either noone notices, or noone cares. either way, it works.

The basics took 2 weeks of living here, was atrociously bad German but I wasn't afraid to make mistakes. After 2 months cleaning swimming pools in Tegernsee with a Turkish bloke who barely spoke German, I sounded like a Schweizer. After 2 years of speaking German in Munich during the summers as a student, most people didn't know the difference. After 7 living here full-time, I don't know myself anymore. But I did it arseways, learnt Bavarian in Holzkirchen & Tegernsee, then moved to Munich and had to move on to Hochdeutsch. Beauty of learning German with a Bavarian accent is that you can truncate the nominatives as you speak it and noone will call you on it because you sound like a total bumpkin.

I have to say your wife is right. In most cases the Germans either don't notice or don't give a damn if you say der die or das. I gave up even thinking about it 20 years ago and instead of "der, die, das" I just say a very short "de", the same goes for "ein, eine, einen etc." I just mumble "a". If people are really "listening" to you they don't notice it.
Getting caught up with such trivialities can really slow you down when it comes down to a conversation. As a matter of fact there are a lot of Germans that don't know themselves what's right. I did a course where 80% of the pupils were German and only half of them had a better grade than me in German, and mine wasn't the best.

i'm fluent but still learning. good thing is my accent. only when i have to say words like "Bruder" do people know straight away I ain't German. even today i learned something new. i was trying to describe the hairs on a pig. they're not called hair, but "Börste" (chaeta, bristle, stiff hair [Zoology] ).

EDIT: been working in germany since july 1999.

just out of curiosity, what kind of conversation were you having that made it necessary for you to "try to describe" a pig's hair?

oum, it is 'Borsten' , not 'Börste'.

seriously, why do you know that!!! i'm not even sure that i know what a pig's hair is called in english...haha

It took about a year and half to get fairly fluent. That was with occasional courses. I find I need time in between to 'digest'. I still make mistakes with the articles (die der das ... dem den des (bastards!)) but in spoken German, people don't care. In written German, it's a different story. That's still quite weak for me.

I found even once I was fairly fluent, there are levels and levels. For a while I found I could function well if it was just, say, four of us for dinner somewhere. Now I can manage in a loud club with background music, dialect, and multiple speakers (but I've been here six years now).

I've been pretty motivated though, and always had to speak German at work. I'm lucky, in that I have an okay accent (except for words like Psychology or Drucker) so people tended to talk to me in German, even when my language skills weren't that great. I would really recommend that you don't neglect the accent side of things.

There's definitely hope, and now I really enjoy the level of fluency I have. Being able to understand everyone, television, humor, etc., feel pretty good.

(And you would probably call a pig's hair 'bristles' which isn't that far from Borsten )

oops, typo. should have been "die Borste". added the ö by accident.


nope, it's not "Borsten", but "die Borste" to describe the hairs on a pig! (I was describing to my colleagues how i saw on the tv program Galileo how they slaughter a pig and put it in a machine to remove the "hairs" of the pig).

I have pretty full vocabulary - can understand (listen/read) pretty much everything, can speak German
with accent of course but cannot really write it - when I have to write something (usually officialdom
or in connection with my hobby/sport) then I make an attempt & my wife corrects it.

I gave up totally on the der, die, das stuff. If people want to talk to you that doesnt matter.

When talking to strangers (like those who turn up at our sports club asking for info) they
rarely nowadays "know" I'm from UK. Most ask if I come from the Netherlands - some time
ago someone asked me if I came from Emden...

Ah but you are in regensburg and no one cares as long as they think you are trying to be like them. I lived in the aldtstadt for three years, and i learned this. As long as I did not try to sound german and tried to sound Bavarian it was cool to them Void though if you lived north of the Donau.