Wundebar
Nov 20 2007, 7:26 pm
I don' want to sound discouraging but expect at least two years before you can understand a conversation and another two years before you can reply. The only way out of this is total immersion and forgetting about the theory/grammar hogwash.
zemonkey
Nov 21 2007, 12:53 am
Update: Been here 8 months - with some intensive training during 4 months (3 times a week one on one, and a two week intensive) I am far from fluent in German but able to understand news on the radio, a lot of conversations, and get around town. 4 months will let you get to that point at least. And I think I am slow on learning vocab.
Wundebar
Nov 21 2007, 9:47 am
QUOTE (zemonkey @ Nov 21 2007, 12:53 am)

Update: Been here 8 months - with some intensive training during 4 months (3 times a week one on one, and a two week intensive) I am far from fluent in German but able to understand news on the radio, a lot of conversations, and get around town. 4 months will let you get to that point at least. And I think I am slow on learning vocab.
You must be very sharp. I've been here 4 months but I still can't understand the news or get around town without usung "Sprechen Sie English?". The same goes for my friend who has been here for 5 years.
I totally disagree with the statement it will take 2+ years before you can make a coherent reply. I spent a little more than a year in Germany in 1990, took 2 months at the Goethe Institut and Mittelstufe at the VHS. I spoke English at home but read what I could in German, watched a little TV, visited some relatives on occasion. Went back to Canada and spoke virtually no German for 17 years until I came back here again this summer. After 3 months back here (so maybe 1.5 years total), I have little trouble with daily life even though my home environment is almost totally English. I have faced a variety of situations without trouble: taking a fitness training session, complaining about service in a store, parent-teacher interviews, random phone calls from relatives, booking hotels, buying train tickets, reading recipes, opening a bank account. I'm not fluent and certainly if my train of thought gets derailed I'm in trouble, but saying that everyone needs years of practice before they'll be able to open their mouths is ridiculous.
I don't have any other language other than "cereal box" French which I've forgotten entirely. I do have a fairly good grasp of English grammar as I have worked as an editor.
Part of the problem is that English speakers, in North America at least, learn pathetically little grammar, so when we're confronted with actual rules our brains explode. English grammar is "hidden" and we don't know we're using it or why, so we can't recognize it in German. How many English speakers can use the word "whom" correctly?
The really critical thing for spoken German, I found, was to get the hang of the rhythm of the sentences. German sentences can seem "backwards" because German, with its clear use of cases, has the flexibility to rearrange the sentence elements and still be understandable (which is why it IS important to use the right article since it indicates case). Once you're familiar with how those sentences flow, you can easily pick out the important words. Otherwise you're still parsing it word by word.
Kids books are great too. Find some little kids and read their favorite books to them out loud. Your pronounciation will improve and you'll start to recognize the sentence flow, too. Two of my favorite phrases from kids books are "Ganz schon schwer heute, ein Parkplatz zu finden." and "Verstecken ist blöd. Ich fahre lieber Roller." They're not the easiest to work into a normal conversation but they sound great.