How long did it take you to learn German?

I married a German and moved here 11 years ago (okay, we did spend five of those years in the US) and I still can't keep up with Germans in conversation. Part of it may be that I've had to learn German and Bavarian at the same time, but still, the word order and the du/Sie thing do my head in. And really, how many words for "the" does any language need?

It all depends on yourself really and if you're living in a German speaking country.

I could unsterstand everything after about 6 months, it took a bit longer before I could speak it fluently, but even years later although I speak fluent German and can even unterstand most dialects and accents, I still make "der, die, das den dem etc... " mistakes, something which will probably never change...

I really think there are as many rule as exception in the German grammar. I think learning German for four months required more brain power that getting my engineering degree.

I did a two month "superintensive" Goethe Institut course here after a couple of VHS evening courses (the first of which I dropped out of because it was just simply too hard) and yes it was bloody hard but enough to get my basic Zertifikat Deutsch.

After three plus years of on-and-off intensive attempts at learning German I've come to a compromise with the language.

If I can understand the writen (novel / newspaper article): I'm very happy.
If I can pronounce / read out loud what I'm reading: fantastic.
If I can get my point across in writing: damn good.
and with speaking, I forget most grammar BS and just try to get the point across.

I stopped caring if I sound like an idiot. still I find most germans are very happy that an american has "learned german".

also, there are more difficult languages out there. Try Polish!!!

German is hard to start with, which puts many beginners off from persevering with the language. The fact that grammar is SO different from what we, as English speakers are used to, is off-putting, especially if you never learnt Latin (Latin helps with declenations and the cases you take).

The GOOD NEWS is that it actually doesn't get much harder (unlike trying to learn English, which gets harder the more you learn). Once you have overcome the initial shock and have mastered basic grammmar it just sort of "clicks" and gets easier and easier.

I first started learning when i was twelve, got a really bad grade at "A-level" (mainly because my grammar sucks, despite being able to speak fluent German) and then studied here in Germany, which is really where everything camei into place.

You are in the right place to learn German, it is much easier here (in Germany) than at home and eventually it will "click" for you. So keep it up!

Agree totally with OG - it's really hard at first, but once it clicks it's all really obvious. I think it's better to put the effort in at the beginning to really master the grammar. I know it's a bit boring at the time, but it definitely helps in the long run.

I agree 100%. Once you've got the grammar down pretty well, then the rules work subconsciously. Work on grammar first, then worry about vocabulary.

found german incredibly tough when i was young to learn the basics, but once the grammar was down pat, the rest came easily (which also was tough at a young age)

I've been here five years now and I'm still waiting for it to "click". That said, I made no effort to learn it for the first three and a half years.

As Mark Twain said, German should "be gently and reverently set aside among the dead languages, for only the dead have time to learn it."

For the most part I agree with him.

I have been here for three years and I speak German quite fluently. In fact, on a good day many Germans can't tell that I am not German. I have a good accent.

However, I will never, never, never speak perfectly because German grammar is soooo difficult. Maybe it would be different if I had taken German classes. As it is, it's too late because I speak too well to go back to school. And I hate grammar anyway.

I learned by listening, with self-teaching books (although I never really studied very hard) and by being an English language teacher. I consistently had to translate words for my students and also passively learned some grammar that way. I also used to be fluent in Spanish, so I was pretty good at learning languages anyway - but German kicked out the Spanish knowledge in my head. All of it.

I understand everything that people say, I can read der Spiegel, FAZ, Süddeutsche...and when I don't understand a word it is just as if I didn't understand a word in English - you get it from the context.

But cases? Prepositions? Gender? Haven't got a clue - and I sincerely doubt that I am ever going to be able to get it, mostly because I am not willing to put the time into it. I just have to hope that my colleagues and customers are willing to forgive me when I write something stupid in an email.

But its just not learning it in School, you need the practice outside of the classroom, that is what helps in the fluency. When I was first here, I took Inlingua 2 nights a week, and worked full time. I had the words on worksheets that I need to communicate with my patients in German and English, so that helped me alot. But nobody at the office spoke english, so I had to speak German. You have to jump into it. Stop speaking english with your german friends (if you have any), take what you learn in class and tell your collegues to help you, and they will.

Its not an easy language to learn, I still make grammatical mistakes, but I can communicate, and that is what is important.

Most importantly- get rid of English satelite TV and magazines- start watching english shows in German to pick up the every day language and read the news papers, even if you have to sit there with the dictonary.

I am a strong believer in the fact we are here in this land, we need to do some form of assimilation- and the best way it to really attempt the language- most Germans are open to people trying to learn it.

I couldn't agree more.

I studied German at home through schhol and A-Level, and was pretty useless. Been in Germany for the last year studying and working as part of my German/business degree, and its come on a load, the grammar's now clicking and everything. I'd say i've learnt about 75-80% of everything i know in this last year, just goes to show how much living in the actual country of the language you're learning REALLY helps!

Still not fluent by any means, i can follow conversations in full though, the speaking and writing aren't as advanced but think they're getting better slowly!

It took me a year to become perfectly fluent. German is quite difficult, but many Germans can't even speak proper German. The best thing to do is to practise and read lots as have already been mentioned. The most important thing about learning any new language is having set your mind to learning it and perseverance.

If you've become perfectly fluent in one year then you are a god to be worshipped. Becoming totally perfectly fluent in German in one year without having any past knowledge is, in my view, totally impossible.

That is the point, you have to be hell bend on trying to learn the language, my ex also learnt German in twelve months, but she had no other choice. I am still learning after four years, but can speak enough to get around, that's all that is important.

Canuck, no baby, I have the added advantage of speaking and understanding Afrikaans. Afrikaans is like Dutch. Dutch is like German. Gave me a head start. I'll stay with it though, anybody can learn any language relatively quickly if they are bent on learning it. Ok, maybe Polnish is an acception. I am told that Polnish is the most difficult language to learn. I learned Spanish within a year as well, my Afrikaans didn't help me at all on that! You must just really really want to do something.

Ignoring all other variables of course

Most people take 1.5 to 3 years to learn german, even with full instruction. The brain has to make major adjustments, the speed of which is influenced by age (after 35, very tough), gender (women use more of their brain for oral processing), age at which a 2nd language was learned (that is, children who learn multiple languages can learn much faster, even as an adult), and last, but not least, language talent (that is, mathmeticians and engineers like me have a tougher time)

I have had americans tell me that someone they knew spent 2 weeks in Germany then came home "fluent". This is nonsense, but americans don't know crap about languages.

I have a Portugese friend with a German wife over here. He speaks Portugese, great English, Italian, some Spanish and of course German.

He reckons he was comfortable after about 6 months here, but then already had 4 languages under his belt so to speak.

In some circumstances I am very happy with my German, I can for example chat/drink with my father-in-law for a couple of hours 100% German without painful pregnant pauses. But he knows the limits of my German etc. I am relaxed shopping, chatiing amongst "most" German-only friends. Dinner parties are however hard work to follow for 3-4 hours!

I did not go for the 100% total German immersion route (but have been to school when I first got here). Reason being:

1. I moved here with the family. I felt it was more important that I was relaxed and learnt the language at my own pace, rather than getting stressed and frustrated and suddenly demanding to "go home". This has worked - I like the place!!!

2. We speak English at home to ensure my 2 boys keep up the language which is good for them, but not so great for me (but they are much more important!!!).

3. I only need German socially. Not needed for my work very much (but would be handy longer term!).

I found the German Volkshochschule rubbish for me - all grammar - and almost no spoken German. For my personal ciscumstances this was no help, although I understand their main purpose is to get immigrants to pass a written test.

I think I am gonna try and force myself to watch more German TV, maybe watch films on DVD in German (with German subtitles). I do flick through the paper in the morning as well but need to be feeling keen enough to grab the electronic dictionary at breakfast time!

Just I struggle to keep myself on the case!

I guess it doesn't help then that I am male, 39, logic thinking (non-creative), and not fluent in any other languages! I learnt some French & Spanish (zero German) at school and am 100% convinced I could have picked up EITHER of those quicker than German (not now of course!).

This I think is your real problem. You have no need to force yourself. The German you do manage gets you by in daily life and at home you want to rather talk to your kids in English. Try reading as well and not just watching TV. You have to concentrate a lot more when reading.

You aren't that much older than me. Many men are fluent in different languages. I don't think logic and creativity exclude one another. I think that's a myth. I am a programmer and a painter(rotten, of course) for instance. Without wanting to sound corny I really think you should believe more in your own abilities. Don't block yourself like this.

Well then, this is a lot more than many people have mastered. You are good at languages if you were able to learn some French and Spanish and speak such excellent English. I think you are making German out to be more difficult than it is.

Yeah - I am damn good at English!! Got that down to a fine art.

No I don't think German is unconquerable at all, I accept the issues are my own dedication to the task in hand. Some days I reckon I am doing great - one of the guys I met at the weekend I had chatted to 12 months earlier and he was remarking how great my German was now, and often have people say it is very good (just being polite!).

It's just like dieting. We all know the answer. Eat less, exercise more - next question?

Just looking for inspirational stories (and one or two saying they are crap after 5 years to make me feel better please!!!), tips, advice etc.

I have been here 18 months and I can handle myself in most necessary German situations. Just get miffed when I feel I am missing all the kinda "interesting, gossipy, technical, funny" conversation. I guess it is just the next stage of the game. When friends come over they say "Wow you are fluent" - cos they don't really know!

Yes, it is just the next stage and if you have only been here for 18 months and can already handle everyday situations without having spend lots and lots of time in a language school like I did, then you can be proud of yourself and your friends are not wrong for complementing you on your skills!

Anthony: Not all of us are dumm Amurikins, I speak six languages myself and am working on the 7th.

Anyway, about German: I was thrown into German school when I was 11 and had a vocabulary of about 50 words. So speaking German every day year round in an intellectual environment (Gymnasium, sort of High School) it took me four to five years to really completely learn the language, and now I speak it better than most Germans I know. As in perfectly. Of all the languages I have ever really learned (I had to give up on Russian, too time consuming as a sideline) German was the most difficult.
But I suppose you can pick up everyday German within about a year or two, as in being able to follow involved conversations or read the Süddeutsche Zeitung.
By the way: How about getting the English right first? Romanic lanuage, not romance, not romantic (as my daughter-in-law once said, almost causing me to crash the car).
Nix für ungut!

It took me a year to become fluent in German although I still make the odd mistake and am always learning new vocabulary. Perfect and fluent are not the same. You can speak fluent German without it being perfect. Many Germans are good at that! Ask Lothar! Afrikaans did help me a lot and I had a year at university and I tried to speak to Germans there too before I came over. My very first job interview was in German. They understood me, just. My big advantage was that I was forced by my friends and at work to speak German. I hated it sometimes. Made a fool of myself on many an occasion too eg. always asked girls:"Bist du heiss?" and once asked a lady," Was kann ich Ihnen machen?" instead of "Was kann ich für Sie tun?"! Needless to say, I read lots of SZ, Kafka, Hesse, etc., looked up every word I didn't understand, wrote it down with on a piece of paper with its English equivalent and learnt them rote on the way to work and back. As much as I agree with AnthonyinEurope that some people are better at learning languages, I still believe everyone can, it just takes some longer than others. At the end of the day, if the footballers can learn foreign languages, then so can a bunch of largely fairly well-educated ex-pats!

I learned German at 21. Went pretty fast, but maybe that had to do with my living situation - was living in Halle (Saale) in Saxony-Anhalt and didn't know ANYONE except my coworkers (English teachers, obviously) who spoke English. It was a dire situation. So I just started listening, and reading and writing every word down - got the everyday words down fast and went from there. 3.5 years later and I am really, truly fluent. My automatic language is German, althougth I have to say, there have really been ups and downs throughout the years. Some days I'm perfect, and some days the words get a little tangled up. But really thinking about the words, translating internally - none of that anymore.

I would agree that Joe American doesn't know a lot about languages, but hey, he hasn't really been given the opportunity. At the first high school I went to, they didn't even require that you study a foreign language. And if you wanted to you had a choice of Spanish or...Spanish. Needless to say I learned Spanish, and was quite fluent to the extent of being able to hold long conversations about literature by the time I got to university. By the time I left university I was really fluent in Spanish, and could also hold a good conversation in Portuguese. And my major wasn't hispanic languages. I was very interested in languages, and had some talent. But if you just went to high school and then maybe a few years at a vocational school or community college you probably wouldn't have been required to learn anything. Of course, the difference between the US and Europe is that you don't have another country next door, but rather another state. Of America. Where they also speak English.

from the starting point of knowing at least four words in german, I read two german grammar books after someone persuaded me that german is a lot easier to pick up if you know the grammar basics first. Then I spend several years trying to read the paper, watching dubbed TV and thumbing through through motorbike magazines, and trying to speak to bad-tempered shop assistants. My girlfriend and I spoke english which held me back a lot but her english was VERY good so it would have happened anyway. The good thing about TV is that you see exactly where people use certain phrases in conversation, bed, arguments, at work, shootings etc. On the other hand I hear that most other eu countries use subtitles on their foreign (ie english) TV progs which surely must have a positive effect on english learning, despite from the matter that dubbing is as kitsch as all shit, when not mutilation, i think it went out in australia in the 1970s along with polyester suits.

I was once told that to learn English it would take three days, to learn French thirty days, but to learn German it would take thirty years! So how long did it take for you to be able to hold a conversation in German?

I have been here 14 years. My German is good but it will never be perfect.

Mark Twain said "Life is too short to learn German", and I am beginning to see what he means!

It took me roughly four to six years and a hell of alot of listening and trying. But, to anyone who is planning on staying a while, it's worth it!

It took me roughly four to six years too. I've been here 29 years and still don't get the der, die and das.

I had German lessons at school for two years and came out after that with one sentence 'Ingrid und Ich decken den Tisch'. Plus I knew the song 'Mein Hut der hat drei Ecken' by heart. It was 20 years later that I met the first Ingrid.

I did a degree in German and before I came to Bremen for my placement year in 1998 I really thought I was confident in speaking German. Two weeks into term I realised how wrong I was. Classroom German and living in the country are two different worlds for me.

I have now been living in Frankfurt for four years and I think my German has improved more in those 4 years than on the 4 years of my degree. I am still learning new things every day but am also sure I will never be perfect.

Only been here a year so still battling through my German lessons into the past participles now. I can get by out and about but I probably sound like Ali G. Do I care? Do I heck as like! As long as I achieve the objective I don't worry, I try and that's the main thing. I used to work in the Middle East and I swear Arabic is easier, though not to write obviously!

After 30 years here there's only the thick farmers sod from a Bavarian Alpenhof who can still mindboggle me, but getting there was bloody hard at the beginning.

When I was a kid though I remember a pseudo german song that was in the engl. hit parade at the time called:

"the kleine kleine fliegel flugel aufgeweckene biegel bugel ergeschplitten lauteboomer bird"

and never forgot it!

Michael

Replies so far have made me feel a bit better. Been here 1 year now and still really struggling with the langauge. Have had roughly 3 hours of lessons per week for most of that time but down to 1 1/2 per week now. Problem I find is that work is entirely in English and I'm not forced to speak Deutsch as often as I need to be.

If I've got a fairly good idea what someone is going to say when out 'n' about (shops etc.) I understand most of what's said. Had our oil tank filled up yesterday, though, and hardly got one word from the driver!

Now trying some 'Learn German in your car' CDs as I have a 1/2 hour commute twice a day. Seem to be good as back-up, but not as a substitute, for lessons I would say.

One thing I seem find with Germans: if they recognise you can't speak Deutsch they either switch to English, or just repeat what they've said at the same speed. Nobody actually slows down for you. Is the same for anyone else?

I've been here since `95 and I did an intensive course called the DSH with a school affiliated with the UNiversity of Munich. Took me essentially a good 5 years to get anything like fluent.

The big leaps came when I was forced to speak German like getting a job in a purely german speaking environment and doing a degree here has helped a lot.

Still don't see the point of giving substantives a gender. But mine is not to question why...

Well what can I say, lived in, or very near, Germany for three years with a German husband and a daughter at school in Germany and my German is... pants!

I can understand a lot more than I did and if asked a question have no problem answering as long as the answer is ja oder nein. But when it comes to speaking more I'm a problem. Its not so much that I dont have any idea what to say but actually being able to say it and have someone understand what I am saying. Not sure if your fans of the program Friends but if you are then Im a 'joey'!

We just end up in a verbal tennis match. Me saying a word and the husband and daighter repeating it back at me, so say correct. Well it sounds the same in my head if that count for naut.

How long did it take you to learn German to a sufficient level where you can completely understand when people are taking to you?

I've been here for eight months so far and I only understand a little. Well, from not knowing a single word, I possibly understand about 10% of the conversation. I'm not impressed with my language learning curve.

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That is quite scary! As in, I plan to move over to Germany next year and am learing from CDs and books at the moment and it is a hard language!

How many hours a day do you practice? In your job/lessons etc.?

For a native English speaker German can be difficult. But, it is harder in the beginning and gets easier as you go. I had three years German in high school, and I've been taking lessons since 2003.

I would say that, if you make the attempt to speak it as often as possible, that you could get by after about 6-9 months. However, if most of the people that you talk to are English-speakers, it could take considerably longer.

Although, I'm a perfectionist, so I'm always trying to learn.

I've been here for 16 mths now and still dont quite understand everything... my work has to be written in English, people talk to me in English at work!

Best thing to do and I wish that I had done it - take classes. well thats if you want to stay in Germany!

i have been taking classes, only for about 2 months, and its once a week, just basic stuff like der die das, and what not.

I dont hardly speak any german, although im mostly quite all the time, just trying to listen to all my colleagues speaking german, and trying to learn that way. i have friends who dont speak english and i think thats a good thing for me.

i have a german english dictionary, which i read when im in the toilet, i find that helpful. but i thought id be alot better than i am now.

i think i need more interaction with only german speakers.

Cool toilet reading!!

yeah, the techs in our lab are great for this - some days they refuse to speak English and this when I learn most.

I think the words you were looking for were "der Durchfall".

Or English?
Just kidding. I have been here 5 years, have taken classes all along and, while my German is getting better, I should be more fluent than I am. I'm lazy (shrug). I speak mostly English all day except with our clients. What is the hardest for me is when we get together with his German friends...I almost always feel left out. I understand them (mostly) but I cannot speak German fast enough to keep up in the conversation.

It could also be a dialect problem. When I came to the States I thought I spoke English decently. Well, ended up in Alabama and it felt like a different planet. Took me quite some time to decipher what people were saying and I really had to concentrate hard and still missed half of it. Felt like the dimwit that I probably am

In my humble opinion, people exagerate about how much or quick you can learn any language including easier Languages like Spanish.

Anyhow, there is a natural ability curve which must be shapped like a slanted bell (forgot the statistical name for that curve)...since most people are not so fast but a smaller % are...(bastards!). There are studies on this - comparing languages and if my memory serves me rightly German is 2 or 3 times as hard as Spanish. But to go back to your question...

1. It depends on your efforts and need...if you end up in an English speaking group or you LET YOUR GERMAN FRIENDs speak to you in English - you are fcuked and will never learn the language to a high level.
2. In a relationship it goes quicker and is the most effective way to learn a language...
3. If you want to do just Business German then classes are okay and you could after one year converse in restricted situations relatively okay...
4. However, just classes and work will not get you fluent for german friends or doing a dinner party in german..that requires more dedication to the languages...i.e. a willingness to watch German TV, read German newspapers, do German Cinema or at least hollywood films in German!!! And to speak to Germans in JUST german...

So -

1 year -get by
2 years - restricted conversation
3 years - converse and not be afraid to converse in different situations
4. years - not much improvement on 3 but frustration at the fact that their is much more to learn.
5. years...not sure yet but fcuk I want to be able to understand German jokes...and accents...

Just my humble opinion/experience on learning german...

* On my German course at Birbeck I was surprised at how good some people had got without every living in Germany...put me to shame...so there is hope for us all...

PS. My wife laughed at me the other day as I told her I've gone back to reading German and Spanish Dictionaries to improve my vocab...which just shows you after 6 years... 3 years not speaking a word and 3 years speak loads of german there is so much to learn!!!

Is it me or is there anyone else out there that likes to read dictionaries.

Anal Stanford..

Lingos ain't easy for some people, and are easy for others. Depends on a zillion and one factors. I had a mate who adored Spanish, went to classes, read childrens books*, tried to avoid all English speakers, and after years of effort, including about 18 months living in Spain he was still completely rubbish.
I've lived here for a few years, been with a German bird for 12 years, but I still don't really speak german. Just to contradict Stanford, Spanish was well easy, and I reckon anyone living there for just a year or so could become pretty fluent if they had an aptitude, and a desire to learn.
As has been written more than once on TT, watch the telly in krout, or DVDs in krout with English subtitles even. You'll learn alot more naturally than sitting in a class with somebody going on about der die and das.

*ridiculous idea IMO. His theory was obviously that he was learning just like a native child. Insane.