Breaking a mobile phone/internet contract with O2

I just got off the phone with O2's "Kündigungs-Abteilung" (contract cancellation department) and this is what I have learned:

They no longer allow you to break your contract with them if you leave the country permanently. I have a feeling this might be illegal or that consumer protection agencies might have a problem with this, but I don't know.

Anyway the agent on the phone was very nice, but all he could offer me was the possibility to pay off my base fee for the account until 30.12.2006 (end of contract)

...which brings me to the next point...

Anyone looking to take over a O2 Genion Duo contract until 30.12.2006? You could at this point extend the contract and get new mobile phones or you could simply cancel it at term. According to 02, you can have the numbers changed for free. (Please note the O2 Genion Duo contract gives you two partner numbers and offers a cheaper rate for calling each other - €0.07 per minute.

If no one wants to take over the contract, I'll be paying O2 off!

That's really crap news. I extended a few months ago and because I'm never sure if I'll be staying here for the next 2 yrs, I asked about cancelling if I leave the country, and I was told that you could do that if you send them your Abmeldungsformular and the new Anmeldungsformular from the new country.

Yes, apparently they just changed the rules in February. They said too many people were abusing the system.

I am really pissed about that, because I entered into the contract with that in mind too. I think it should really only be valid for contracts that have been made SINCE February. Any legal opinions on this?

it would be interesting to see what the law really is. i know, for example, if you sign a contract with a fitness club and move away from the area (can't be just down the street, but maybe 10 to 15 km away even, then you can get out of your contract. it is not explicitly stated in the contract, but it a law written down somewhere. i know this worked for me.

same goes for an insurance i just signed. it's for a minimum of 2 years, but i was told if i left d-land, i could cancel it too, so i signed up for not fearing being trapped.

Just tell them you are leaving, close your bank account and go !

FFS they ain't gonna embark upon a worldwide manhunt for you for the sake of a phone contract that has less than 8 months to run anyway.

I see your point, but I might want to come back to Germany at some point. I don't want to be refused entry just because of €80 that I could have (bitter, very bitter) paid at some point. Also, because of my personal situation, it wouldn't be feasible since the said bank account belongs to my soon-to-be-ex husband. We get along really well and I have no reason to throw that on him.

Haveing an outstanding debt to any company will NOT prohibit you from entering the country. They won't pull you aside and contat O2 and say "Come and get'em". What do ya think this is Old Soviet Russia?

Well, I don't think it's that dramatic, but at some point O2 will turn over my debts to someone else and then...

Remember, as an Ausländer you don't have the RIGHT to be here. They can decide on a whim to allow you to enter the country or not. I think a good way to ensure that they allow you to do so it to generally avoid breaking the law, acquiring debt and not paying it off, etc.

But if you wanted to come back to Germany, might it not cause problems with anything that uses a credit check? For only €80 it's not worth the hassle if you think you might want to come back and live at some point. Don't you get a subsidised phone with the contract anyway, so if you don't pay it you are essentially stealing the phone (well part of it). What's next, hiring a car the day before you leave and takign it home with you

Umm...I was never planning on not paying. Read my posts again please. That's what DK would do though!

They won't bother. Don't ask why I know this...
Anyhoot, even the monkeys at T-Com release your contract earlier when leaving the country, so I'm surprised o2 refuse to. Just go into one of their shops and have a little chat with one of the shop assistants. I'm sure you can come to an arrangement with them.

But if they changed the policy this year, then why would it apply to you. Your contract was signed before the change and it should not apply to you. They probably use this as a chance that you will pay them for the contract. Call again and speak with a manager.

@knusper_muesli
Perhaps, but not for 80 Eur, It would have to be for a lot more

Sorry that should have been @DK

A guy that I worked with before had a 2 year contract with O2 and then cancelled it after about 6-8 months. He had it on a "Home Zone" contract and used it a lot for calling to the UK and internet at home. O2 actually accepted the cancellation saying that his bills had been "fairly high" (however much that is!?) leaving him free to bugger off happy! So they can do it if they want to!!!

O2 -Can do (But not this time eh)

Should I bring my mafia "friends" with me?

Seriously, I think I might call them again. After all, the number is free...just FYI: 0800 10 90 290 if anyone else needs to do this at some point.

Not sure if that helps, but Voda didn't harrass me for the €150 odd neurons I owed them a few years back...

Honestly, give them another call and ask for a teamleader or similar, if you don't a satisfactory response. I have yet to come across a company refusing to cancel a contract earlier if you're leaving the country.
It has worked with T-Com and Allianz and those are the ones I was worried about the most.

Good news, I called again and didn't even have to speak to a manager. The woman told me she was shocked that someone would tell me this and asked me if I remembered this person's name. She said that "rein rechtlich, müssen wir das tun, wenn Sie ins Ausland ziehen können Sie nichts dafür tun". Legally, they are required to allow you to cancel your contract if you can prove that you have moved abroad.

All I have to do is write a letter of cancellation with a copy of my Abmeldung (de-registration) form.

km: Glad you got it sorted. While they can't force you to pay off a full contract when you're leaving the country, there is a point of contention: the phone subsidation. If you got a phone for less than the full retail cost as a result of taking a contract out with them, they can require you to pay back at least part of the money they shelled out for your phone.

Example: My phone retails for €350. It costs about €250. I paid €25 and Victorvox picked up the €225 + €50 or so for the dealer in exchange for my signing my life away... I mean, for my signing a 2-year contract. If I were to leave after 3 months, they could demand I pay around €200 for the phone. After 9 months, around €100. It's based on depreciation value of the phone itself and the accounting methods used. That's fair. What's not fair is expecting me to continue paying for a service I can't use (or would have to pay exhorbitant roaming prices for as I'm no longer in the country).

woof.

Yes, of course you are right. However, I guess this didn't apply in my case since I have had monthly bills much, much higher than the cost of my phone new more than once.

That is still what you paid for the service and not for the phone.

Umm, yeah. But think about it. They do a calculation to figure out how much they need to earn from each customer over the 24 month period to pay off the equipment, no matter what. I am certain that they do not expect to earn over €150 each month on their normal customer, yet they provide the phones to everyone (and on some phones, there is a co-pay). I'm quite certain that I have had high enough bills over the ~1.3 years I have had the contract to more than cover this pre-calculated amount to cover their initial costs PLUS pay for the service (which is extremely overpriced, might I add).

Why is it overpriced? Someone who knows more about the mobile phone industry can probably explain this, but I sincerely doubt that the costs of providing service are much higher here than in the US. In the US, the per-minute cost is much lower to the consumer. Everything is done in packages and almost every package has free off-peak minutes. For example, T-mobile in the US has packages with 1.000 anytime minutes and free unlimted night and weekend minutes for $50. That's less than $0.05 per minute, depending on how many night and weekend minutes you use.

No, you're paying back the phone, too. See your contract. Phone providers subsidise the cost of a phone with the legitimate expectation of earning that money back. Because of competition there's a lot smaller profit margin than you imagine; antennae and fiber are expensive. Where the providers are milking people is currently facing possible German and EU legislation since they charge (according to the critics) excessively for both SMS and roaming, and there may be collusion in the pricing.

km: the US-based packages are baseed on the fact that the US has no way to charge the calling party the higher rate for a cell phone -- especially from a landline -- other than using 1-900 numbers, something unworkable.

woof.

BD, you're right, I forgot that there are no sep. numbers for mobiles in the US.

However, my point stands. How does a mobile phone company set its prices? They need to do a calculation and determine how much they have to earn per month to cover their costs and make a profit, whatever it may be. Certainly part of this is variable, as is the level of service. But I am certain that they know pretty much exactly what they needed to earn with me every month to cover the cost of my phone. I am also sure that they would have charged me if they thought they hadn't earned enough to cover it yet.

But the point is they factor in your overusage with my underusage. I also have a free phone, I have 100 free sms per month and that is about all I use my phone for. The retail value of the phone is more than the 240 euros that I will spend during the contract.

Thanks for the good news!

BM, I wish I had been the same!!! What a waste of money over all those years (this is my second or third contract with O2...)

My girlfriend tried to cancel her contract with o2 yesterday as she's leaving the country. She has her 'ausmeldung'(or whatever it's called) from the KVR.

Apparantly the bloke told her that it's no longer (since last Feb) to get out without paying the rest of the contract or tranferring it to someone else.

Anyone know if this is true?

thanks.

Topics merged by admin

That's what they all say. Tell the guy that she will not have any bank account in Germany to continue paying but if they accept international wire transfers in Thai Baht then he has nothing to worry about.

ring them again and ask them why, ie which court ruling they're using. threaten the usage of a lawyer as there is no way she can use the services they are demanding she pay for. if it is in the AGBs ask where, if it was changed in feb did they inform you. in other words play hard ball. its a call center muppet your dealing with.

Was this info for the main O2 offices, or one one the people in the many O2 stores? I'd call the Main office. If they same the same thing, call again, talk to someone else, repeat until you find somebody with a clue.

When I spoke to the T-Mobile Customer Service a few weeks back (as I wanted to extend my contract for 2 years but change it to a 'without mobile' contract), I was told that I would be able to cancel my contract if I leave the country.

Anyone know about Vodaphone on this issue? I'll probably move back to the states for a few years in about 1.5 years ...that's a probably. I want a new phone...my current "call-ya" phone sucks horse wang.

My gf is for some reason EXTREMELY anti any other cell phone company...which baffles me...

Ringing, calling, talking is no use. This is Germany. Send (by recorded mail) a formal letter of cancellation specifying exceptional circumstances ("außerordentliche Kündigung") and providing evidence of departure such as the Abmeldung, flight tickets, bank account cancellation, employment termination or transfer, or new residence in a foreign land. The mobile phone contract is no longer enforcable and can only be cancelled. Note, however, that if they suspect or feel that you were aware of the likliehood of leaving the country during the life of the contract before it actually started, they may be entitled to claim payment of the remaining unused months and/or return of any subsidies (such as free phone) provided. How hard they try depends on the amount concerned. Once you have formally sent the cancellation they will formally respond with their acceptance or argument for otherwise...

I too had to cancel my O2 contract because I was returning to Canada. I gave my notice in July of 2006 as the 2 year duration of my contract ended in September 2006. Because I was 1 month late in delivering my notice, they extended my contract until September 2007! Needless to say, I was not impressed. A friend called for me and was told there was nothing that they could do and that the contract would stand until 2007... I decided to call myself and told them that they had poor business practices and that there must be special conditions under the circumstances!

Anyway, long story short, I was transferred to a department "that could help me" and was assured that my contract would be cancelled in two days. I don't totally trust them though and will keep a close eye on my bank account to make sure no further payments are taken.

Close your account.

I plan on closing my German account when I leave and opening another one - with another bank for any payments I need to make (or money I am still to receive) once I leave.

That way I will be secure in the knowledge that nobody's taking anything they shouldn't...

That's a good idea, but I still have to wait for my 2005 Nebenkosten to come out of the account, but then I will cancel it. I don't really want to piss any Germans off though... I would like to come back someday to visit!

If you cancel everything, then who are you going to piss off?

I was under the impression that I could cancel my O2 contract when I left the country and so I filed an official cancellation letter before leaving Germany in November 2006. I also told them in this letter that I withdraw permission for them to automatically bill my German bank account. I told them to send me the last bill at my American address. So what did they do?

They sent me a letter to my German address telling me that they have rejected (abgelehnt) my cancellation. They didn't send it to my American address, but luckily I had my mail forwarded, so I got the letter. They did however stop billing my German account.

So when I called them, they said that I owed not only the amount of my last bill but also the monthly charges for the months since I left Germany. I hadn't gotten any bill saying that I owed anything either sent to me directly or forwarded from my German address.

So then I started to complain that it was not fair (in a legal sense) (ungerecht) that they had rejected my cancellation and the man said exactly what others on Toytown have been told lately, that O2 does not accept leaving the country as a valid reason for cancelling a contract.

I got really upset and said that I hadn't even received the bill. I was calling from the U.S. It was the middle of the night. And then the connection gets cut off. I think he hung up on me...
great...

(By the way, this is all happening in not so fluent German, since I haven't spoken German in months)

So I'm not sure what to do at this point. Apparently they do keep a call log of all the times you call in. So maybe they are told to say no to you a certain number of times but if you keep calling to complain then they'll lighten up. I could try asking to speak to a manager next time and see what happens. So maybe I'll try calling a couple more times and see if I can talk to someone nicer. I think the argument that when I started my contract over 3 years ago the policy was different should be a valid reason for letting me out of my contract. But I have no idea about what the official German law is.

They did offer for me to pay now for the next 9 months of 9.95 per month to get out of my contract. But then I'm paying for a service that I won't be using and I'd rather not.

Mostly I'm just annoyed. But if anyone has any extra insight that hasn't been told yet, feel free to chime in.

Perfectly reasonable. You are not paying for a service you are not using, rather you are paying for the free or cheap phone you got with the contract. An easier solution would be to have someone take over the contract...

My 2 year mobile phone contract was ending at the end of 2006. at the start of dec I called up to confirm that yes indeed, as of 31.12.2006, I would no longer be an O2 germany customer. Ha ha ha - as if it would ever be that easy...

I was informed that because I didnt send them a letter three months in advance of the contract end, confirming that yes I wanted the contract to end, they would be extending my contract for another year!!! I told them I live in Belgium now, Im closing my german bank account, is there nothing that can be done... what was the answer, yup, you guessed it nope.

So I went home and had a look at the small print and yes indeed, I am loath to admit that it did state what they ultimately told me. Still, I found it completely unreasonable that they were not willing to compromise or enter into any dialogue, even though I am no longer resident in germany.

anyway in the end it has a happy ending... It turns out that I will move back to DE in March and my phone number will still be viable. So I guess it works out in the end. Still... I'll know for the next time.

Try this. It worked for me a few years back to get out of an E-Plus contract

1. Type up a letter saying you want to cancel you contract, etc. etc.
2. Fax them (o2) a blank sheet of paper.
3. Take the fax confirmation sheet you get after a completed send and scan it into the computer.
4. Photoshop the image to change the times/dates. (3 months or so ago)
5. Printout the new fax confirmation.
6. Call them and tell them you want to make sure they got the cancellation letter, or complaining that they are still billing you after you sent the letter. Make something up..

When they say that they never got the letter, or that you had to tell them to cancel many months ago, tell them you did, and that you have proof the letter
was revd. by their fax machine many months ago. Then tell them you can fax them the letter again, with a copy of the fax confirmation page. Tell them that
their fax system must have lost it. etc .etc. (We all know how tech works these days) and demand that they cancel your contract. If the first person fails
to cancel the contract (And provide you with a mailed confirmation of termination, then ask for a manager. If all else fails threaten legal action...

It worked for me, and it might work for you too.. ya just gotta stick by the idea that you did send the letter 3-4 months ago and except notthing less
then the termination of the contract. If you need help with this (Photo shopping) kick me a PM..

haha.. excellent idea there.. its good to screw over the ones who use this recurring contract nonsense that seems endemic here in Germany..

Hey, they screw you over.. You screw them over...

Beware: many companies dont accept Email or Fax as valid ways for Kundigung. They only accept letters sent by post. better is "Einschreiben mit Rüchschein".

I was also told that I could not cancel my mobile phone contract with O2 when leaving the country. The only way to cancel it is 3 mths before the end of your contract from when it was automatically extended. Has anyone had better luck recently? Thanks!

Just leave. Close up your bank account and go. They're not going to chase you to a different country.

It thas been known, especially if you are moving within Europe. It might also cause problems if you ever return to Germany, even as a tourist, especially if you are non-EU as you will be on a national debtors list.

German mobile phone operators, or their German subsidiaries are bastards for this, I assumed as you did that come the end of a contract, i.e. my Vodafone that I could start up a new one with O2, great, what I didn't know was that as is the (IMO, illegal practice, or at least bloody underhanded) unless you cancel a contract 3 months in advance the contract is automatically extended for a year.

O2 wouldn't cancel a contract where I found out before having the SCHUFA go ahead having found out 30 mins after signing the o2 contract i.e. it was still legally non-binding, they point blank refused to nullify it, still I had a new phone and no monthly fees for three months let the Vodafone contract run down (kündigt the contract obviously) and have used o2 since.

It states in your o2 contract that a justified reason for ending the contract will mean that o2 will end the contract, i.e. death, leaving the country etc, just scan in that part of the contract send it to them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you demand your right as laid down in the contract and (darauf bestehst) close your account before they can get their hands on any more of your hard earned.

Oops. I.ve mislaid my 02 contract. Anyone know if you can download a new one? I guess they are fairly standard?

I can see that this is going to be a pain to get out of. I don't have an address in France yet nor have I signed a contract with my new employer.