Job termination agreements (Aufhebungsvertrag)

Hello Friends,

I am a green card holder..and working for a software company from the last 14 months but unfortunately..my company has lost major projects in my specialized field. and now I m on bench..to get rid of me..they have asked me to sign "Aufhebungsvertrag" a kind of agreement between me and company that I am leaving the company on my own and they will give me 3 months salary without doing anywork.
There are some more points in it like the Insurance and Holiday, social security etc etc..
I need to consult a lawyer for this purpose.
has anybody gone through this type of situation?
If you know any good lawyer who is specialized in Employment related cases..please let me know.
I need to do some consultation before signing the agreement.

Thanks,

Munich lawyers - the two TT advertised lawyers both deal with employment law.

Yes, talk to the lawyers before you sign anything! If you say that you left the company on your own, you are not entitled to unemployment benefits for 3 months, I think.

There is no reason why you should sign that you left the company of your own accord. They are the ones making you redundant and the termination letter should clearly state that.

Talk to a lawyer and good luck!

I don't have any practical advice to offer, sorry, just wanted to wish you good luck.

Which is probably why he got the 3-month pay-off.

Lawyer recommended, but don't get in too deep with one. Definately worth getting advice and a look over your contract, but don't start splitting hairs - it costs money, time, and may not bring anything more than your current employer getting annoyed and reducing any offer. After 14 months employment a 3 month payout is good. Take care to check your re-employment or continuing residential status in Germany.

NEVER/DONT sign the contract if it says that u are leaving on your own. If you do then:

- You won't receive any Arbeitslosgeld which you are entitled to receive for 7 months (in your case), if the company is firing you.
- Usually they give out compensation when firing people unless the reason for firing is indiscipline, inability to work, manhandling the manager, selling company laptops on Ebay etc. (think u get my point)

Some contracts have a minimum notice period (usually 3 months), during which the company has to pay the wages irrespective of whether they have work for you or not. This maybe the reason that they are paying you 3 months salary even without work; need not be a goodwill gesture. (Remember they are there to make a profit and not for charity).

Sometimes German companies try to take advantage of the fact that Ausländers don't know the rules very well. Get your contract checked (preferably by a lawyer). Just be careful and Best of Luck.

But they can't fire him unless he's done something wrong, and they can't formally make him redundant unless they can show corporate financial difficulties. Nonetheless it may be in both their interests for him to leave, and formally that only leaves a voluntary departure left, which they need to sweeten. Just how sweet is the discussion point. If his work permit relies on this (or any) employment he may not be able to stay long enough or even qualify for unemployment benefits.

Another way of looking at it, is "do you want to leave the company?" (or if you do leave, will you be thrown out of Germany and you would rather stay?). If you do want to leave the company, then negotiate for the best deal. If you don't want to leave the company (or leave Germany) then stand by your guns. It's very difficult to fire you, at least for quite a long while.

Why not try the local labour court? Could save you forking out for a lawyer!

Arbeitsgericht München
Winzererstraße 104
80797 München

Tel. no. and opening times, plus a list of labour courts elsewhere in Bavaria: http://www.arbg.bayern.de/lagm/ArbG%20Muenchen.htm

Good luck! I've been there myself. I was advised not to sign an Aufhebungsvertrag without mention of the notice stipulated in my working contract. Your employer must give you proper notice in the Aufhebungsvertrag and also mention that you are being dismissed "aus betrieblichen Gründen" otherwise it could look like you have initiated the termination and you would forfeit 3 months' unemployment benefit (Sperrzeit).

it's for the time of your notice period plus a standard 3-month waiting period for people who quit their job on their own. so if you have to give notice 3 months before the end of the quarter, then for 6 months. the unemployment office isn't leniant about that at all. at my old company it was 6 months, so i was at risk of not getting employment benefits for 9 months.

i consulted a lawyer regarding when i signed mine with my last job, because the company was doing poorly, but they were keeping it a secret and trying to get people to get themselves fired. they had been doing sneaky things for 6 months when i got my first (unjustified) written warning. i could counter everything they blamed me for with emails proving i was not in the wrong, so they had no leg to stand on, but the process had been set in motion. after 3 written warnings they can fire you, then you have to sue to prove the firing was unjustified. my lawyer warned me about the unemployment benefits things and suggested i demand a glowing letter of recmmendation. i had another job lined up already, however.

i would suggest you consult a lawyer because you are in a special situation being a green card holder. if the unemployment office knows you don't have a job, they could put you under pressue to find a job quick-quick or your green card will be revoked and you can theoretically be deported. unfortunately my lawyer at hte time was in stuttgart, but it cost me €150-200 to consult him.

I am considering writing my boss a three months notice for quitting my job. My contract is until November 2007, but I will leave before then. My questions is whether my writing that I want to quit in three months legally voids my contract. Can my boss say that I should leave immediately? Would I be forced to leave immediately if he does?

Not as far as I know, though it is possible they could give you the 3 months worth of money I guess (the phrase "lucky bastard" springs to mind). I'll try and find out this evening, but fel free to poke me by PM if I don't post anything.

I asked my "Expertin" and she says not. They can apparently insist you use any holiday you have remaining rather than pay it out or whatever, but can't just tell you "on your bike," no.

Has anyone worked with a lawyer here for employment disputes? A friend is trying to leave her job (and is not planning on going for unemployment or social help) or reduce her hours but doesn't want to lose out on pension or 13th month pay. The HR people seem pretty "pro-company" and tend to pressure the employees.

I worked for German lawyers for 20 years and can only say - don't ask me, go to the specialist. If the company has an HR department it should have a workers' council as well (Betriebsrat). She should go there if and when a problem arises, not to HR. The council can mediate and help find a feasible option.

The BR said to ask a lawyer. I guess no one has ever quit this company before.
My friend would just rather go to a lawyer someone has had good experiences with. For example, when I have called "specialist" lawyers in the past, 2 out of three sucked. So I can't recommend anyone.
To make matters tougher, apparently the HR person is a full-fledged lawyer as well, with all the skill associated. Just not on the "employee's side".

Ok, I see the problem now. Consider the above general information and my advice in any such case.

Hi Everybody,

I need some info about Job termination agreement (Aufhebungsvereinbarung).

I have been working in my present job for last 7 year, now my company wants me
to leave. The reason given to me is that they don't want any futher development in
the product i was working on and they don't want to keep me just for maintenance
purpose. They have asked me to sign a Job termination agreement. They are offering
me two month salary at the end of 3 month notice period.

My question is , is it fair settlement or should i ask for more ?

Topics merged by admin

I don't really know the specific answers to your questions,especially since the law has changed on these things. However, I would say: be very careful about signing it. Do you have a Betriebsrat? If so, consult them. If not, contacting a lawyer (there are some who do telephone consultation for a once only fee) is a good idea. As far as I know, an Aufhebungsvertrag means you lose your entitlement to unemployment benefit for a certain amount of time...not sure on that though.
I also suspect the two months' severance pay is less than you are entitled to after 7 years with the company.
How's your German? There will certainly be some info on current Arbeitsrecht on the internet.

It depends on the wording of the Aufhebungsvertrag, whether it affects your benefits. Check out this Aufhebungsvertrag - job termination agreement for another discussion.

Edit: Oh, and good luck!

Thanks guys. I have already showed it to betriebsrat and they said it looks
ok and It can only affect my chances of getting unemplyment benefits.
I have been to arbeitsamt as well and i was informed that making this
agreement won't affect my unemplyment benefits.
My query is, is there any rules about serverance package or is it just a
negotiation thing ?

2 months wages for 7 years sounds shit to me. That’s just my opinion mind.

That settlement offer is really bad. What is it, one week per year? It's the absolute minimum they can get away with legally. I second the advice to consult someone, preferably a lawyer if you don't have a workers council or union. They will expect this, most people do here. Good luck.

Accordingly to our workers council there are no rules about this kind of settlement.
So i just want to know if there are some laws or is it just negotiation thing.

Go see a lawyer, your worker's council don't seem to know what they are talking about. One week per year worked was the legal minimum compensation for redundancy last time I looked and you can generally get better than than without much effort. If you have legal insurance now's the time to use it.

I think what your workers counsel means, Arnie, is that you can sign whatever you want and you can't challenge it later. What other people are saying is that if you don't voluntarily give up your rights by signing, there are minimum levels of compensation required.

2 months wages for 7 years: definitely way too little, legal advice fast, sign nothing, your Betriebsrat doesn't sound too on the ball or to be working in your best interests - I was in a place for 4 years and walked with 70% of my annual salary in a lump sum - the tax on it was obscene though, in retrospect I should've asked for the payment to be made in the next fiscal year, so it'd be as well to talk to a Steuerberater too.

I would also recommend anyone who receives notice from their employer to take it in writing straight away to a lawyer - they will handle it for you. Never sign anything on the spot, even if they try to pressure you into doing so! Take it to a lawyer first to be checked.

A good recommendation, if there are people here who have not already done so, is to get legal insurance ("Rechtsschutzversicherung") - preferably a general ("Allgemein") one. This will cover you for problems with landlords, employers etc etc. A friend of mine lost her job and didn't have this insurance and had to pay EUR 2000+ in lawyers costs and so, even though she won, she came away with a lot less than she would have liked...

Unless your company is going down the tubes (where special rules would apply anyway) don't settle for less than 1 month salary per year of employment, possibly more if you are married, have kids or are older than 50 (as social considerations also apply). If your severance agreement implies a voluntary separation rather than enforced then you might not qualify for unemployment benefits for up to 12 weeks. Take legal advice, even if you have to pay for it, and don't sign anything in the meantime

I think it also depends on how big the company is. I know for a small company 2 months notice for over 5 years service is legal. Less than 5 years it's 1 months notice. Check with a good lawyer.

The normal legal minimum is 1/2 months pay per year that you have worked for the company, so for 7 years work you should get 3 1/2 months pay! Also if the Kündigung was "fristgerecht" i.e. if they gave your the right amount of notice, this should not have any effect on the amount of your unemployment benefit. You could however have a "Sperrzeit" of upto 12 weeks (during which you receive no benefit), but this depends on the form you fill out explaining why your contract is finishing. If you can explain it as being the companys fault, then you might not have to face a "Sperrzeit".

P.S. I am speaking from experience, for further details feel welcome to PM me or call on 089-50077108 or 0171-8113927

My company could be considered a medium sized one emplyoing more than 50 people.
My situation is, i don't want to go to courts unless i get a bad deal. So i am effectively
looking for a reasonable settlement. But i don't know what could be termed as reasonable.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abfindung_im_Arbeitsrecht

According to German Law you don't have the right to expect severance pay.

However if the company does offer it. The rule of thumb is 0.5 to 1 months pay per year of service.


My own personal opinion is that it seems fair. But then I'm an employer

I'm pretty sure that 1 week per year worked is a legal minimum mandated by the EU for all member states. Anyway, in practice it's a low figure for compensation as several of us have mentioned.

Before handing in the Resignation letter, I wanted to discuss when I could leave as I would have preferred not to stay till the end of the notice period (4 months). Is it normal for a company to agree an earlier resignation provided that you give them your new employer contact details?

got a good lawyer specialised in the working law in Germany he is called Gneiting.Look him up on the web.Using him at the moment and up to now been happy with him

Thanks, I am already speaking to a solicitor and he implied that there was nothing illegal with asking an employee for contact details of their new employer in exchange for shortening a notice period upon resignation. He didn't seem so certain about it though.

As far as I'm aware, this kind of approach is not normal in Germany but maybe other people have had similar experience.

This is now getting confusing, as after speaking a solicitor friend who specialises in Company Law (okay, not quite Employment Law) she seemed to think that asking for new employment contact details are an invasion of privacy. I wish I knew what was right here.

At least you don't work for Circuit City. Those fine folk are getting the royal shaft, US style.

Amazingly callous employment termination letter.

I particularly like the line "This employment loss is expected to be permanent." As in, for the remainder of you life, or until you find a better company?

Asking for contact details of a new employer is just not on.If you finish employment with one company WTF has it got to do with them.Has your company maybe written out a social plan and there should be someone else leaving instead of you.Get to a Lawyer something stinks here

Seems a bit strange to me. On the other hand, YOU want something form THEM which they are not obliged to give you (not staying your notification period), so getting bolshy with them may not have the desired effect. Maybe they want to know because of company confidentiality issues - may be okay if you are not going to their direct competition for example. Tread diplomatically!

I agree, asking for details might just not right, but question is, are they still legally allowed to do this. The company were an agency and there was no 'special' confidentiality clause apart from the usual loyalty clauses that many companies have.

Does anyone know how easy it is for someone to be sued be an old employer (over a dispute on the Aufhebungsvertrag) for 'lost profit'? i was sent a letter recently from a former company because I left without reaching an agreement on when i could leave.