Mittlerer Ring tunnel building

As you'll have noticed if you've spent any time in the traffic jams, the city of Munich is adding tunnels to the Mittlerer Ring in 3 places.



This building will be going on until 2010, though some of the tunnels will open within the next year or so.
I'm still trying to figure out where my busstop at Leuchtenbergring will finally end up. So far, they've moved it twice. What plans I could find don't give any hints on the bus stop placement at Leuchtenbergring, but I thought I could share what I did find, and hope someone else knows more.

Here's the East Tunnel plan:





Images from: www.muenchen-baut.de

bloody tunnels - grrrr
is that what we voted in that referendum for about 6 years ago?

Effnerplatz when they're done? Or is this just before they started? Not sure:

All I've heard is that Effnerplatz will be open first (yahoo - the only bit I regularly have to deal with). But they update us at work alot (near Leuchtenberg) so I will try and remember to check.

Edit - that's definitely not a before picture .

That definitely wasn't before, that much I know.

When they're done, they do plan a few trees...

that would be good - considering all the trees they ripped down at the steinhausen bus stop.

Well this one looks just like Leuchtenberg Ring before they tore it up and it's shown with the plans:

That's Einstein Str. there

That picture is fake because there is no one running a stop light.

Yeah, and there's no trash in sight.
I really am tired of playing where's the bus stop every week there. It's already a mile away from the S-Bahn, and they just keep moving it further. Where will it end up? At Bohmerwaldplatz?
There's some concrete construction now in front of the Stahlgruber building where the bus stop used to be. I can't figure just what it is. A ramp I guess. The bus stop has currently been moved out into traffic.

Hi Kat why don`t you just go to Ostbahnhof and take the (insert Bus number here) to where you want to go, would be a bit easier???

That picture of Effnerpl. is what it looked like before, after the tunnel will be there with the wings going off towards, Effnerpl or Englschalkingerstr.

There will also be a statue there- suppose to resemble Mae West. Causing an uproar in Bogenhausen, as the statue (some wire crap thing) is costing tons!

Bollox..

Where is the Tram line etc!!!

The Tram stops before the MittlerRing! There is a round about there for it to loop back into the city! Both the 17 + 18 trams run to Effnerpl, and stop before the Ring, then you can take the 154 Bus to Arabellapark. Anything else smartie pants?

You arent worth argueing with..

Carm is right, that pic of Effnerplatzs is DEFINATELY before the tunnelbau started. There was no tram line crossing Effnerplatz itself immediately before (for some years) although there was one there in the past that used to go on past the Arabellapark U Bahn etc.

Also as Carm says, there will be some funky statue thing there when its done.

Another point to prove that its a before shot is that you cannot see the tunnel entrance and exit going under Effnerplatz

don't the 17 and 18 both go to Effnerplatz?
that's what it says on the timetable...

not that I've ever been to Effnerplatz, mind

Ahh - I see now - this view of effnerplatz is looking towards the JFK Bridge (the overpass finally clued me in) and Tom17 is right - you can't see the entrance to the tunnel. I vaguely remember the streetcar stopping before Effnerplatz itself - just to the left in this picture (behind the diagonal building)...

The greenery is a bit misleading though, I must admit. Not sure if it's worth screaming "bollox" though ...

It did used to be that green down there, its just hard to remember as its been a building site for so damn long. (Which is why we moved across town from there)

Additionally, the Petuelring tunnel in the first picture in this thread has been open for a few years now. I remember when BladeNight went through it just before it opened

Mittlerer Ring Südwest I am not sure about. I dont think there is a tunnel there and I certainly have not seen any bau. I remember talking to my landlord when I lived in the middle of the current Mittlerer Ring Ost tunnelbau and apparently the people who decide about these things only had funding for one tunnel so they had to choose. They chose Mittlerer Ring Ost. I can only assume that the other one that was a choice is the Südwest one and has hence been put off until after the Ost tunnel which should be finished in 3-4 years...

Petuelring has indeed been finished for some time now - with a beautiful park on top, huge modern playground, streams and brooks uncovered, I think plans for a beergarden as well (I normally only ride past). In any event, a uge improvement over the old ring road and a nice extension to Luitpold park.

The 17 or 18 tram used to run up Englschalkingerstr into Arabella- but that was over 20 years ago, after the UBahn was done then they stopped the trams at Effnerpl, just before crossing the Mittlerring.
There is a Pharmacy at Rosenkavalierpl, that has a photo (an arial shot of the area) from 1970 and it shows the tram going accross Richard Strauss Str, and then from 1990 and the tram stops at Effnerpl.

Scogs and I walked through the park last weekend, there is a café there (Spatenbier), complete with a large-ish area for a Biergarten with an outside bar. We'll check it out soon, weather permitting.

Thanks for posting this info, Kat.

Quick question, can you (or someone else) post the link to where all those graphics came from?

For copied images like these remember to always link back to the source. Thanks.

That area outside the cafe in Petuelpark (which is on my daily ride to work) actually has water fountains periodically quirting from the ground. There is still an area that they put tables outside though. Not really a beer garden per-se but a nice lil place anyway.

your wish is my command:

http://www.muenchen-baut.de/pdf/m_prj/mr_ost.pdf

http://www.muenchen-baut.de/pdf/m_index/mrost_einbahn.pdf

http://www.muenchen.de/vip8/prod1/mde/_de/...te/pdf/mro5.pdf

http://www.muenchen.de/vip8/prod1/mde/_de/...te/pdf/mro4.pdf

http://www.muenchen.de/vip8/prod1/mde/_de/...ch/pdf/mro3.pdf

http://red02.muenchen.de/inedit/in/_de/rub...te/pdf/mro2.pdf

http://www.muenchen.de/vip8/prod1/mde/_de/...ch/pdf/mro1.pdf

http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/bau/projekt...4225/index.html

http://www.muenchen.info/pia/fifawm2006/da...RingOst_deu.pdf

The 17/18 may be re-extended in future towards Cosimapark depending on the extension of the U4 to Johanneskirchen.

MT, why would the extension of the U4 determine whether the Tram 17/18 gets extended? I would have though it would make sense to extend it anyway.

There was originally a plan to create a new tram line going down Cosimastrasse->Englschalkingerstrasse (past Arabellapark U4)->Effnerplatz->Herkommerplatz->Tivolistrasse (through the English Gardens) and then somehow it would carve its way up to Hohenzollernstrasse and -platz and then up to Scheidplatz (i think this was the Endstation).

I believe it got shelved cos some tree huggers decided that the sshrubs the city had planted on the central reservation in the Cosimastrasse (which was originally designed to make room for the tram-line!) had grown too big to be allowed to be cut down!

There are 2 options. Either extend the U4 almost direct eastwards to Joahnneskirchen.
This is a lomng term plan of the MVG who like "big things".

Transport campaigners say it would be better to extend the 17/18 to Arabellapark and then do a left up Cosimastrasse as it would serve a larger population andbe cheaper.

Building both is unlikely.

As far as the Englische Garten goes that is one of the most outrageous things that Bayern has done to fuck Munich off. Studies have shown that laying tram tracks between Tivolistrasse and Münchner Freiheit is just about the one project in the whole of the world, ever, that would bring the best cost/use ratio benefits.
But of course the CSU hates Munich City Council and they hate the tram.

But just to show I'm a fair kinds guy where it gets really sneaky is the machinations of the SPD in Schwabing. There were some nasty rows in the local party and some people saw the chance to knife Ude - it's his local area.

Some people in the SPD in the area EAST of Münchner Freiheit worked hand in hand with the CSU to stop the tram as they felt it would lower the tone of their area. Like the buses are posh like!

WEST of Münchner Freiheit the local SPD has been succesful in forcing the MVG to change its tram plans.
The new line will be built from Münchner Freiheit northwards BUT there will be no passenger services toward Hohenzollernplatz, only a single track for stock transfers. Of course the MVG do want to run trams WEST of Münchner Freiheit but again, some of the locals think it will lower the tone and prefer the Metrobus 52 ever 5 minutes instead.

City Council and Mayoral elections in a couple of years...after then, if the SPD win, the MVG will push on these projects again. The City Council confirmed recently that the park tram is the top project.

<strokes anorak>

i just checked a website. the current plan is to extend the 18 up Cosimastrasse to St.Emmeramm. No plans to create a new line through the English Gardens.

There is also a lobby to create a new line starting at Cosimabad and follwing the tracks of the 18 to Max-Weber-Platz and then the 25 to Grünwald.

The current plan is to extend the U4 to Englschalking and not Johanneskirchen. That would mean a whole area not covered unless the tram 18 is extended as well. both would make sense. It would also make sense to extend the U4 to Johanneskirchen and not Englschalking with a stop somewhere along the Cosimastrasee, maybe somewhere near the Pioneerschule. In fact, i think that is exactly where they should put a stop.

Was in the SZ last week mate.

sorry, i think you are wrong about the plan being to extend the U4 to Johanneskirchen. The plan has always been to extend it to Englschalking. The liklihood of this being completed within the next 10 years are pretty slim so not really worth thinking about. The tram could and should be completed much faster. They could start on this as soon as the MR tunnel under Effnerplatz is in use, beginnnig 2007.

I never heard about tram thru the Garten area, but currently there are two busses (154, 54) that go thru the Park.
I also heard rumours of the Tram being extended (to coincide with the TunnelBau) up Englschalkingerstr (ending near the Sbahnstation).
I personally would be happy if the U4 was extended to either Johaniskirchen or Englschalkinger SBahn stops (but that is for my own personal reasons! )

Carm, the current plan won't see the strassenbahn go to the S-bahn but to St.Emmeram (Tram 18 would continue from Effnerplatz up Englschalkingerstrasse past Arabella Park U-Bahn then turn left down the Cosimasstrasse and end at St.Emmeram).

There is a lobby that wants to extend a Strassenbahn to Englschalking S-Bahn instead of the costly extention of the U4 tunnel but this is just a proposal from a lobbying group, not an actuall plan.

But the liklihood of any of this happening in the near future are pretty slim, imo.

Well, St. Emmeran is nice too- easier to get the the St. Emmeran's Mühle then!

Jaysus, What would the posts be like if youse lot lived near the Channel Tunnel!

Yeah might have been Englschalking. Anything past Ostbahnhof is pretty much Austria anyway innit.

You are right, tram would be quicker and cheaper but not offer a connection for Bogenhausen direct onto the S8

That's the thing about the Eng Garden tram Carm. The sheer bloody mindedness of Bayern/CSU who control the parkk. There's already a road with buses but they don't want a tram.

true MT.

still, I don't really understand why extending the U4 to Englschalking (with two stops in between, one at Cosima park and one at Freischutzstrasse) precludes extending the Tram 18 along the Cosimastrasse up to St.Emmeram. Can you explain the logic behind this? Is it just a money thing? Otherwise, the routes serve different areas, so don't really overlap, except at Cosima park and Arabella Park.

I was really bummed when the tram for englisher garden didn't go through

signed DDBug @ Hohenzollernplatz...

This is t´he planned extension for the U54, with new stops at Cosimapark, Fideliopark and Englschalking S-Bahn:



This plan shows the extension of the tram 18 to St.Emmeramm but also shows the proposed Tram 22, which is unlikely to ever go ahead:

Kind of weird about a stop at Cosimapark- must be further down Englschalkinger then, as the east exit of Arabellapark is like what a 3 min walk to the Cosima Bad?

Well, none of this will happen in my life time, so I should stop worrying about it!

On a sort-of related topic, of interest to folks around Steinhausen/Haidhausen/Arabellapark: I just learned that the tram and bus lines 19, N19, 54, 100, 159 will be re-routed during the period April 3rd to May 31st, due to road works in the Orleansstrasse between Ostbahnhof and Haidenauplatz. You can find the gory details here:
http://www.mvg-mobil.de/betriebsaenderungen/2006-020.htm

And here's a picture of the proposed Mae West sculpture for Effnerplatz:

ACE maps OG!
Where can I find them?

It's on kind of flimsy ground really the either/or argument becasue the routes are different and only overlap for a short distance.

But the argument goes, if there is a U4 extension, the St Emeran route can be served by buses and then people can chancge into the U-Bahn after a short journey. becasue I SUSPECT the MVG wants to build the U-Bahn as it is a "bigger" thing.

Don't count on anything not happening.
Being an anorack is never boring.

<pedantic geek>

There are 2 probs with that representation of the tunnel at Effnerplatz...

There is no space for the footpaths at either side of the road. I am sure they will remain otherwise there is no easy footpath/cycle route down on to the JFK bridge etc. I am only 99% sure about this, its an assumption on my part.

You can see all the way through the tunnel from where that pic is taken. If not all the way through you can certainly see the light from the other end as its only passing under Effnerpl at that bit. I have already seen the light at the end of the tunnel so I am 100% sure about this

</pedantic geek>

I passed by the construction site earlier today, it was cool seeing the southern entry to the tunnel going underneath Effnerplatz towards JFK-Brücke.

The Bavarian government, aka CSU, is worried about the environmental effects of the street car going through the English Garden. This is the same CSU that approved of buliding the Isarring which effectively cuts the garden in two.

http://www.tram-muenchen.de/index-netzpl.htm

http://www.tram-muenchen.de/images/Netzpl/...z-M-Planung.pdf

http://www.tram-muenchen.de/images/Netzpl/...z-M-Planung.pdf

this is a privately run web-site (afik) but the maps do accurately represent the plans for the tram and the U-Bahn as they were submitted the Planning Ausschuss (well at least for my neck of the woods they do).

There is some very interesting stuff to be found on the site. Despite the name, it covers not only the trams but also the U- and S-Bahn.

Effner Platz Tunnel Opens - Dec 20 2006

Pardon me if this is a daft one but isn't the Ring more like a C shape?

Doesnt it contain a gap near Pullach so the rich ones in Grünwald don't get disturbed?

The Mittlerer Ring goes all the way round. You must be thinking of the Autobahn 99.