zimmer
Mar 23 2006, 12:11 pm
Hi, just want to know if the use of "naturally" is
correct English. The Germans use "natürlich" very frequently and usually, to mean "of course". To my knowledge, "naturally" is not
correct English so I'd just like to hear from you, the native-English speakers

THANKS!
Eleanor Rigby
Mar 23 2006, 12:13 pm
I don't see anything wrong with it.
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 12:15 pm
It's actually a 'false friend' and shouldn't be used interchangably.
Jeeves
Mar 23 2006, 12:15 pm
Perhaps you could tell us why you think it's not correct.
Edit: now that I've read DDB's post I think I know where you're coming from.
There's nothing wrong with the word "naturally" but it doesn't mean the same as "natürlich"
boomtown_rat
Mar 23 2006, 12:15 pm
I think its basically fine although not as common in Eng as Germ
eurovol
Mar 23 2006, 12:23 pm
Naturally you can use it that way, but it may not come naturally to you.
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 12:25 pm
uhm, that first naturally of yours is not, well, natural, Eurovol.
eurovol
Mar 23 2006, 12:29 pm
It is where I come from.
Columbus
Mar 23 2006, 12:30 pm
This is what
LEO says. Certainly, obvious, innit? ;-)
Waiting for
my friends
zimmer
Mar 23 2006, 12:48 pm
OK. Here is one sentence: "the tilted lenses are naturally also corrected so that optimum vision is ensured". I think naturally should not be used to mean "of course", and definitely not to be used with "also". To me, using naturally in the middle of a sentence is grammatically wrong. I've never used it in spoken nor written form, ever! unless I want to say "in nature".
And my German friends like to say "for sure" (to mean natürlich).
Yes??
dolfan
Mar 23 2006, 12:51 pm
I regularly use naturally to mean for sure, of course, certainly and the rest.
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 12:52 pm
well - the lenses could be corrected naturally (by themselves)
or - the lenses are, of course, corrected (this is done to them and shouldn't have to be said because everyone knows this)
eurovol
Mar 23 2006, 12:52 pm
QUOTE
Naturally, the tilted lenses are also corrected so that optimum vision is ensured.
Now that would be correct.
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 12:53 pm
yup - that would work. But why not
We correct tilted lenses to ensure the best vision.
(sorry, I am procrastinating today)
Kay
Mar 23 2006, 12:56 pm
I find this to be a good explanation of the various uses of "naturally" in English (source: TheFreeDictionary; antonyms omitted):
QUOTE
Adv. 1. naturally - as might be expected; "naturally, the lawyer sent us a huge bill" (= of course)
(...)
2. naturally - through inherent nature; "he was naturally lazy" (= by nature)
3. naturally - according to nature; by natural means; without artificial help; "naturally grown flowers"
(...)
4. naturally - in a natural or normal manner; "speak naturally and easily"
Tomasino
Mar 23 2006, 1:00 pm
QUOTE (DDBug @ Mar 23 2006, 1:53 pm)

yup - that would work. But why not
We correct tilted lenses to ensure the best vision.
I like it when people feel they have to try to wiggle out of using the passive by nearly interjecting some virtual subject, whether it exists or not.
Who's we?
(anyway, I am treading on thin ice here, many more in this forum are lightyears more articulate than me - understatement)
(and I am procrastinating today too, naturally)
eurovol
Mar 23 2006, 1:00 pm
QUOTE
Q: Did the blood sucking lawyer send you a huge bill?
A: Natürlich
Works for me.
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 1:08 pm
You are treading on thin ice tommy, it was an example. You can keep using your german passives in your work if you want.
QUOTE (Tomasino @ Mar 23 2006, 1:00 pm)

I like it when people feel they have to try to wiggle out of using the passive by nearly interjecting some virtual subject, whether it exists or not.
Who's we?
It sounds like a product or company description, so "we" (or company name or whatever) is spot on, sorry.
Besides, unlike some other languages (e.g. French), English is not overly fond of passive constructions.
You may call it "wiggling out" if you wish, I call it writing idiomatic English.
Tomasino
Mar 23 2006, 1:42 pm
QUOTE (Kay @ Mar 23 2006, 2:08 pm)

You may call it "wiggling out" if you wish, I call it writing idiomatic English.
I call it preaching the gospel of the SAP English style guide.
Defend it if you will, but in my mind (warning: opinion coming) the great universalness, as well as the versatility of the English language easily affords expression of enhancements to a "thing" without having to introduce the executor of that enhancement.
I just think this whole "we" thing (pursuant to SAP guidelines, etc.) is limiting and awkward at times.
We differ, Peace.
QUOTE (Tomasino @ Mar 23 2006, 1:42 pm)

the great universalness, as well as the versatility of the English language easily affords expression of enhancements to a "thing" without having to introduce the executor of that enhancement.
Can
we I have that in plain English, please?
Columbus
Mar 23 2006, 1:54 pm
QUOTE
I call it preaching the gospel of the SAP English style guide.
I li(
k)
ebe this
koala
Mar 23 2006, 2:05 pm
I'd get rid of the naturally in this case and go for something along the lines of
QUOTE
the tilted lenses will be corrected to ensure optimum vision
Topsy
Mar 23 2006, 2:10 pm
If they're describing some kind of scientific process then it should be passive, shouldn't it?
That's the way we had to write up our chemistry experiments at school, anyway:
"we dangled the screaming locust in the flame of the bunsen burner" = incorrect
"the screaming locust was dangled in the flame of the bunsen burner" = correct
it's about the only thing I remember from school chemistry
mind, that is a while ago now, admittedly, so time's may well have changed
boomtown_rat
Mar 23 2006, 2:53 pm
don't you remember burning magnesium on the bunsen burner and chucking acid at people Topsy?
Topsy
Mar 23 2006, 2:54 pm
we were talking about burning magnesium the other night, as it happens (as you do)
does it burn green? we couldn't quite remember
boomtown_rat
Mar 23 2006, 2:57 pm
bright white flash which we got all excited about if I remember correctly (might have sort of had a green edge to the flash I suppose)
QUOTE (boomtown_rat @ Mar 23 2006, 2:57 pm)

bright white flash which we got all excited about if I remember correctly (might have sort of had a green edge to the flash I suppose)
That must have been the locust
SleeplessInMunich
Mar 23 2006, 3:01 pm
Magnesium burns white.
Topsy
Mar 23 2006, 3:01 pm
you didn't say that the other night - you reckoned it was green
boomtown_rat
Mar 23 2006, 3:03 pm
copper and possibly iron filings were green, naturally
I'm still processing the locust gag
SleeplessInMunich
Mar 23 2006, 3:07 pm
Magnesium wasn't even mentioned in the quiz the other night. Neither was the colour green...
brokenm
Mar 23 2006, 3:14 pm
Manganese, Chromium and Iron, but it had nothing to do with burning, except if it was a gift of burning love.
Topsy
Mar 23 2006, 3:14 pm
shows how much I know then, innit - I thought it was chrome/iron/magnesium

i'm crap at the science round, anyway
this week - unbelievably - I actually knew the answer to one of the questions for the first time ever (I've had a couple of lucky guesses on science in the past)
not really my thing, I usually stick to my specialised subjects and go get a round of drinks in when the dreaded science round is announced
brokenm
Mar 23 2006, 3:15 pm
I missed almost all of them . I thought cocoa was cacao with sugar. Turns out that Matt was wrong though. Cacao and Cocao are the same thing, just Englishized versions of one another.
SleeplessInMunich
Mar 23 2006, 3:21 pm
Thank you brokenm, and the question as which one of those elements give rubies their red colour...
Pay attention next time Topsy or we will make you sit in the corner.
Elfenstar
Mar 23 2006, 3:28 pm
QUOTE (Tomasino @ Mar 23 2006, 1:42 pm)

I call it preaching the gospel of the SAP English style guide.
why not microsoft?
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 3:33 pm
SAP is infamous for, well, difficult to understand English.
Microsoft's style guide clearly states to avoid the passive.
Elfenstar
Mar 23 2006, 3:38 pm
QUOTE (DDBug @ Mar 23 2006, 3:33 pm)

SAP is infamous for, well, difficult to understand English.
i'll have to tell my boss that! maybe they should fire me
DDBug
Mar 23 2006, 3:41 pm
There's no way you are responsible for their list of cryptic abbreviations and terms!
koala
Mar 23 2006, 6:14 pm
Elf - i think your job is safe! DDBug is right - the SAP list of weird and wonderful prescriptive translations goes back way before your time.
Yeti
Mar 23 2006, 6:28 pm
The trick with SAP is to think in one language while writing another. The SAP english documentation is actually written by Wookies.
You are viewing a low fidelity version of this page. Click to view
the full page.