Starting school in Munich

Looks like our family may soon be relocating to Munich. We're trying to figure out what we need to consider as far as schooling goes and expect to visit Munich shortly to "check things out". Would be grateful for any advice on the following questions:

1. When do kids start grade 1 in Germany? I think it is around 6 but am interested in what cut-off date is used (our son turns 5 this November)
2. Does the school starting age differ in private vs public schools?
3. Were we to start him off in a German public school, what support if any is there for kids not completely fluent in German?
4. Any tips on what elementary schools to look at that offer German and English?
5. Any experience with Montesori schools in Munich?

Many thanks!

FYI: no experience myself but the TT guide to Montessori has several schools listed, looks like some are bilingual and range from preschool to age 12.

I think (but am not absolutely sure) that the cut-off date is August. There is also some talk of extending it to September. So your son would not be able to start until 2008. There are exceptions but if he doesn't have any German skills he will not be considered a 'Kann Kind' (able child). Lots of city Kindergartens offer special language programmes (but only once a week) in German.

My son's (excellent) kindergarten does this. However, a child that young will pick it up very quickly.
Where will you be living?

EDIT: However a year might be enough for him to get to grips with the language and become a 'kann kind'.

I just posted a link to the english speaking guy at the school offices in Munich - on a different thread (which will probably get merged in a bit)

If you put him in a German kindergarden now, he should be fine by the time school starts. The schools also offer additional help for kids who are weak in German. I wouldn't push to put him into school too early, not only would he be the youngest (physical and emotional aspects to think of here with the other kids) but they really expect a lot from the kids and they advance quite quickly academically (at least as much as I could compare 2nd graders when in the states last year).

EDIT: ok - I think this is the post

Regional variation in German state school quality

I agree with the other posts, let him have a year in kindergarten and then start school in 2007. I know a lot of Germans who keep their kids in kindergarten an extra year to give them an extra edge in school. The result is that in one class you can 5 and 7 year olds in the same class. My son is one of the youngest in his class. He does fine academically, but socially it can be challenging. Another issue is that they grouped the 1st grade classes based on the kindergarten groups. My son went from kindergarten into a class which had almost all of the kids from his kindergarten group. By going to kindergarten for a year your son can find his place in the "group" before school starts. Good luck!

Not every school will group the kids together though - my oldest was the only kid from his kindergarden in his school class. The others were sent to a different school (very close together these schools are) but into two different classes (of three first grade classes).
The school my oldest went to tried to group them according to the way they would walk to school - or so they said.

I used to work in an English/German language Montessori kindergarten - see the other thread for more info (JML's post).

Welcome to Germany. There are several threads on raising children bilingually, on the schools here and playgroups, etc. Read widely in the Family Life section to get a feel for what you will be dealing with-- even threads about "Land, Stadt, Fluss" games are telling.

I personally think you shouldn't overwhelm your child with all that s/he will be going through emotionally, culturally, linguistically with this relocation by putting him/her in school early. Any move is hard for a child, but this one means losing his/her social infracture completely-- all that is familiar and comforting. Add to that the pressure of learning a new language and new behaviors AND performing in school and that adds up to stress. If your child is a boy, he has a social and developmental gap or lag to consider and should be given time to "catch up" with the girls. Studies prove that children who are almost a year younger than their classmates perform worse academically and have lower self-esteem and a poorer self-image than same age or even older children. And it is during the school years that our social selves are formed. Do you want your child to feel inadequate, small, vulnerable for years to come, not quite up to speed, intimidated? German schools don't really cater to children's social growth in the same way that American schools do. German schools are not necessarily "kind and gentle" places (go Montessori if you can!), but then, just go shopping and get plowed down by someone who refuses to stand in line and you'll begin to understand what your polite child will be faced with. There's a lot to get used to here-- give your child some extra time and space. S/he will have additional challenges as a bicultural child. And school is hard enough as it is.

Thanks to all 6 of you who responded. Your advice is much appreciated!

Based on the (little) info we have about our move, it looks that we would initially be living somewhere close to Studentenstadt. (Don't know what that part of town would be called ...). At this stage, we would probably arriving in Munich this time next year, which I guess would give our eldest (then 5 and a bit) at the absolute most 6 months to pick up a smattering of German. I am guessing he wouldn't come any where close to being classed as a "kann kind" if that is the only intro he gets. He is already bilingual (unfortunately not with German) so I don't know if that will aid or hamper him in picking up a third language.
From what you all wrote, I am guessing the best would be to put off his school start until Sept 2008, when would be 6 going on 7. That would give him 18 months to learn German plus mature a bit. A bit of a worry how he will find the wait - he already knows his alphabet, can do simple maths and is only 4 ... which is normal for kids here already attending pre-school. But as one of you pointed out, he should have his hands full learning the new language so hopefully that will keep his mind active in the interim.

Any tips on good pre-schools/kindergartans/schools close to studentenstadt?
Also curious to hear how you are all coping with the "house-wife" model ... am used to a society where working mums are the norm rather than the exception. Will I be the local "weirdo" if I choose to work? How receptive are employers to part-timers?

Thanks again
M-o-3

I would not worry about your kid picking up the language. I don't live in Munich yet (I'll move there soon), but I moved to UK from Italy years ago and it took my daughter (then 3) exactly 3 months of nursery to speak well, and in 9 months time she sounded really English and everybody was shocked to know that both her parents were Italian. If your child is already bilingual is probably very skilled in learning foreign language anyway...

I am in a similiar situation to mo3 - moving to Munich this June with 6, 4 and 1 year old boys. I am having a very hard time deciding whether to put my 6 year old in German or International school. I really believe in the benefits of being exposed to and learning a second language, but he is a very sensitive child and I worry about how he will handle the first 6 (or more?) months of not being able to communicate with the other kids. I have heard that some German public schools have Uebergangsklassen or Sprachlernklassen for non GErman speaking children - does anyone have any experience with this? Are they pretty helpful? Are they full time in these other classes until they learn the language or are the pulled out of their regular classes? How have your children done in similar situations (so far I have only spoken with parents from MIS who didn't have good experiences trying to send their kids to German Kindergarden). How do I determine which schools have these resources? I'm sure it would help if I knew where we were going to live, but that of course will depend on where the kids go to school... which comes first?

Hi JEJ. The new mood in Germany is to discourage children from attending school until their German is good enough. When is your 6 year old's birthday? If he is after the cut off date, he could spend one year in a German kindergarden (which I have found to be a wonderful solution) in the preschool class and then start school at 7 - which is not uncommonly late here (although they are pushing the ages down slowly, the average first grader turns 7 during the first grade, some turn 8).
If you are planning on sending your kids to one of the international schools, then it doesn't really matter where you live as these have bus services.
The school my oldest goes to does offer support classes in German - but basically only for about an hour on fridays after school. However, of all the kids who started 1st grade (from various nationalities and degrees of German) only one left school for apparent language reasons.
I am a big proponent of German schools for the kids, bilingualism etc. - but the German school system is not a "warm fuzzy" nice one (though all of our teachers have been caring, good educators). Parents (read mothers) are expected to be there for their kids, schools only go half days and from the first week on my son had at least 30 minutes of homework every day. However, it is doable.
Another consideration is how long you plan on staying here? If it is only for a year or so then the international school would be easier for the return to the American system. However, if you are planning a long term stay, then the German system offers two "degrees" that also qualify them to go to college in the states (realschule does qualify as a high school degree in many states as does gymnasium). and (in my opinion) is the better solution.
Good luck

I agree with Dbug. Send your son to a German neighborhood kindergarten for a year. Give both your child and yourself some time to adjust, get to know people and improve your language skills. I came here speaking very little German and I am sure than anyone else using this forum would agree with me when I say, the better your German, the better your experience here. This goes for the kids also. Good luck!

DDBUg and Jen - thank you for your thoughts.

My son will be seven in October. He is currently in American Kingergarten, which is really like a real year of school - he can read, add, subtract, gives oral presentations, is learning Spanish and French, has science class, swimming, etc (much different than when I went to Kindergarten), so I think he would be pretty bored with German Kindergarten. I will not be working in Munich, so I don't mind that I'll have to help with homework or that the day is shorter, but he (and I) are definitely used to being coddled by the warm-fuzzy happy school he has attended for the last two years. I have been reading many of the postings and it sounds like German Grudschule is all about business, not much into helping kids continue to grow socially, and that they won't necessarily assist him much with his German. Of course this summer he will go to German language school which is provided by my husband's company, but I'm not sure how much to expect from 60 hours of education. We will only be in Germany for two years then back to the States where he will be expected to be in third grade. I had really hoped to jump in feet first and send him to German school so that he (and I) could better learn the language and embrace the culture, but I'm feeling a little discouraged by what I have read so far.

Jen

So, now knowing that your child will be seven and has been in American kindergarten, I am changing my advice. I think your son would manage in a first grade since he has already had "first grade" in his American kindergarten. He would be very bored with the "German preschool" that they have in the kindergarten. Since he already can read, write etc. then he will only have one thing to focus on and that is learning German. My son started first grade here and I was very concerned about him being behind from where he should be in the States, but now in the middle of second grade, it seems that they are ahead in some areas, (except WRITING, as in creative and/or expository writing). There are private Montesorri/Waldorf schools, but I think that going to a neighborhood school has huge advantages in terms of integrating and becoming a part of your community.

Well, I am off "moderation" -- never post a lot on sunday morning, you quickly exceed the 4% limit before anyone else is awake (you wouldn't believe how much it was killing me not to be able to post) .Anyway, here is the answer I PMd J. It pretty much mirrors what Jen said.

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Well, if he is only going to be here two years you could take either route, actually, but you're right - I would put him in school and not kindergarden. (And most people I've met end up staying longer than they plan, but that's a different area).
Anyway, why not try the German system. If you will be having German lessons in the summer, and he takes the Forderklasse for German he should be ok (kids usually pick up on things quickly). The advantage is here that he may well be advanced in some areas when he returns to the states. My oldest was in second grade when we went back for a visit last june and his math skills were at a 4th grade level - or so I was told. He could read at a 2nd/3rd grade level in English, but couldn't write that well. And with only a half day of schooling (even though I would strongly recommend a hort or afternoon program to support his German) you would be able to buffer the system (though most kids seems to be fine with seriousness of it).
Another option would be Montessori or Aton or another private German system - these are much more "warm fuzzy" and also encourage additional learning in the areas the children are interested in. Since there is not a worry of having to pass the 4th grade filtering, this would be a very good option -and they are more likely to work together with you on maintaining the American grade level skills (except in English of course, you might have to do that on your own).
My 2 cents. Good luck!

that part of town is actually called North Schwabing. A wee bit north is Freimann. It's all still in Munich. Studentenstadt is on the U6 line. You would need about 15 minutes to get to Marienplatz (the center of town) from there.

And it's a good area - though I don't know much about the schools there (I haven't heard anything bad, if that helps!!)