Two different toothpastes - morning and evening

Is using two different toothpastes, one in the morning and one in the evening, better for your teeth? Or are millions of Continental Europeans being taken for a ride?

Replies from dentists only, please.


"Do I use still use the Aronal, or Elmex already?!?!" - The late-riser's dilemma).

Its a load of bollox...

Well yeah, it's bollocks, but if you do buy both then you only use half as much of each, so it's not going to increase their sales.

Answer from another non-dentist:

From what I remember from talking to a dentist friend of mine, the Elmex actually is better for you, because it takes into account that you won't be eating for several hours and therefore the pH of your mouth stays at a certain level. This was a very hazy conversation, so my reasoning might not be what she said, but the answer was that Elmex was better for you at night. However, the Aronal was no better than any other run-of-the-mill toothpaste.

Toothpaste is not necessary! Its the action of the toothbrush that removes plaque- you can clean with Baking soda (tastes bad, but works) and get the same results. I tell my patients what ever tastes good use!

If you are not drinking water with Fluoride, then you should use a Fluoridated toothpaste (waitng for Meckel to bring the Fl thread back!).

It is if you wanna have a fresh tasting mouth. Nothing beats a good brushing after a night of 40 ciggies and a million beers.

plus the paste provides a medium for the removed debris to be washed away with...

how do these two go together?

seeing as flouride isn't standard issue in German water (as far as I know)

I suppose you could use no toothpaste and take flouride tablets if you wanted to...

I hate most brands of toothpaste here mainly because of the sodium lauryl sulfate in them.

I finally found one I like in Basic which uses clay instead.

so does rinsing with water, the plaque debris is removed mechanically from the tooth with a toothbrush, not the toothpaste. Plaque is a Biofilm.

Using a Fluoridated toothpaste helps reduce risk of cavities and reduce sensitivity on the roots of the tooth. You can also brush without paste, and do the same job. All toothpaste does is foam, and gives a flavour to your mouth, to make you brush longer.

I personally Hate mint flavoured stuff, so I get Cinnamon paste from home or the kids stuff that is bubble gum flavoured.

If you use Tpaste, you only need a pea size dollop on the brush.

You could... its up to you.
I supplement with fluoride tablets and regular fluoride treatments (I am anal about getting a cavity). But not extreme to fluorosis.

Resisting the urge... Hold me back...

Go for it Grinner ! You know, if you see a niche etc etc

Niche!!!

Valley more like!

Yeah, I guess I did set myself up for that one!

What happened to the man who couldn't tell the difference between "Toothpaste" and "Putty"???

His Windows all fell out!!

So are either mouthwash or chewing gum effective against tooth decay, or do they just make the breath smell better?

So you can brush your teeth and make an ashtray afterwards? Cool!

brushing the tongue does more for your breath then mouthwash- most have alcohol in them, and that dries out the mouth.

Carm, why is it that using mouthwash actually makes your breath worse in the long run?

@ER-Maybe because of the alcohol drying your mouth out?

I must say, I find Carm's knowlege of dental hygiene quite impressive.

well she is a dental hygenist so logic would dictate . . .

But what about tooth decay? Does either mouthwash or chewing gum help?

(The mouthwash I use doesn't have alcohol in.)

What is a tootpaste?!?!?!

I know that, silly. It's still impressive though, innit?

I don't know about tooth decay and whatnot. But I had an ear nose & throat doctor tell me that sugarless bubble gum is good to chew because chewing gum helps you produce saliva which is good for keeping nasty bacteria type stuff in your mouth to a minimum. Any truth to that, Carm?

in the long run no! after you eat there is a 20 minute acid attack on the teeth, that is when the risk is higher for decay, some of the gums say, they neutralize that acid attack, well, any sugar free gum would, as it increases saliva production to wash the teeth better. So does rinsing with water!

Alcohol in mouthrinses dry the tissues, making a better breeding ground for plaque (an a whole lot of other problems), the only over the counter rinse that does help plaque reduction is Listerine- it has essential oils in it.

Best way to reduce decay risk- brush daily, floss daily, brush tongue, and use a fluoride paste or rinse or tablets.

There are of course other mouth washes available

Only after a night out with the Toytown smokers!

Anybody seen that aquafresh (i think) ultra clean or whatever that comes in the silver tube anywhere in town? It does a really nice job foaming up..

I agree completely with your point on the most beneficial aspect of brushing your teeth is the scouring by a soft-bristled toothbrush and using a toothpaste only moderately increases the preventative care of the brushing. But I don't agree with the point of alcohol drying up your mouth. What I have read is the problem with alcohol based mouthrinse is that people do not tolerate it as long as non-alcohol based mouth rinses. I agree that normally alcohol will evaporate and pull moisture from a surface, but your mouth is special. It is designed to produce saliva. The high alcohol will help to immediately destroy bacteria in your mouth and you saliva will quickly be replaced and the normal pH buffering will ensue.

I also read that chocolate (Cocoa and not Cacoa...mmm Dr. Matt) prevents cavities. Alas no twhen combined with sugar, so stick with the bitters.

if you are talking about the Chlorhexadine rinses- most are now alcohol free, as they are the worst, and should only be used for a short period of time, but most people want that, well, that tingly minty feel in their mouths, and those rinses have alcohol, and believe me, they dry out the tissues. Ever seen people suffering from Xerostomia? Not pretty! their mouth is so dry, that the tongue sticks to the teeth, they suffer high rates of secondary caries (decay under or around old fillings or crowns). Xerostomia has alot of causes, but most is from rinsing. No links for you, just 20 years experience.

I know you have experience and don't want to argue. But alcohol in mouthrinse drying out the mouth has to be an old wives tale. Do it on yourself. How long does your mouth need to be refreshed with saliva (normally you have a saliva production/flow rate of 40.92 +/- 22.28 mm/5 min)? If you think that one second that your mouth would be drier than normal would cause an increase in dental caries...then you would be arguing against your prfession. I know dentists dry the tooth they work on. In addition Xerostomia is not caused by mouthwash and yes people who have a disease should take different advice than the healthy population concerning precautions.

Guobis Z, Baseviciene N, Paipaliene P, Sabalys G, Kubilius R.

Clinic of Dental and Oral Diseases, Kaunas University of Medicine, Kaunas, Lithuania. zygimantasg@yahoo.com

The aim of this article is to review the problem of xerostomia considering its clinical, etiological, diagnostic and treatment features, basing on the today's tutorials and scientific articles found in databases on the Internet. Recent epidemiologic data on the prevalence of xerostomia in different countries are introduced. There are analyzed the main aspects of clinical manifestations of xerostomia, according to the different etiology analyzed. The most common etiological factors causing xerostomia, especially the main three of them: radiation therapy, Sjogren's syndrome, and drugs, are pointed out. The most popular and accepted clinical and laboratory assays for measuring and evaluating the function of salivary glands are represented. Attention is paid to xerostomia as substantiation of the separate diagnosis and its role in diagnosing other diseases. The concept of possible treatment modalities and prognosis are discussed. The main and most common problems concerning xerostomia are revealed.

people don't rinse for a second. They rinse about 30 seconds, then spit it out, so the alcohol stays in the mouth and dries the tissues. Most people that are addicted to mouth rinses also rinse usually 3 to 4 times a day. That is where the effect comes from.

The "second" that I am speaking of is the time after the alcohol is expelled from the mouth. Realise that no mouthrinse is 100% alcohol. There is also water, thus maintaining a liquid junction. The idea that it would dry out the cells I just don't believe, and the idea that this causes xerostomia is not accurate.

Then come spend a day at my office!

Have you ever seen the mouth of a sever alcoholic? Its drier than the Sahara.

Think what Alcohol does to your skin, it dries it out, now the epithial tissue of the hand skin is much harder than that of the oral mucosa, the oral mucosa is alot more sensitive to medications (for lack of a better word), do you believe me now?

No. You are using extreme examples to make a point for everyday users. I know how alcohol works and I know how it can cause tissue to become dry. But to claim that a 40% solution applied for a short period of time causes damage to the oral mucosa (transitional epithelieum which is pretty tough tissue against chemical damage) If you don't believe me try pouring coffee onto your hand and then in your mouth, which tissue burns more easier? I would agree with your drying point only if you did not secrete more slaiva. but fortunately you do. I would liken the example to physicians who use an alcohol based wash for their hands daily. If they did not use a moisturizer (like saliva in the mouth) they would have problems with dry skin. However, they do and their skin remains healthy. In addition, the ADA recommends many of these alcohol based mouth rinses. Do you really believe that they would do this if they increased the incidence of caries?

Most rinses are now, alcohol free as the long term use has shown the effects of the alcohol in the mucosa.

I was using extreme examples as you are being stubborn about accepting something you say you cannot believe, but you are not even trying to believe. Sorry, but I have a job to get back to, and refuse to argue with someone on the internet, over something I know for a Fact!

I am only using facts in my examples as well. 1) ADA endorses alcohol containing moutrinses. 2) The use will not cause xerostomia. To use the point that they will dry out skin of the oral mucosa. I would suggest studying up on histology about what purpose stratified squamous epithelium. It is a belief that common sense should make you quickly realise that useing small amounts of alcohol briefly will not dry out your mouth. Maybe I should state it a bit more understanable. Do you think that drinking alcohol causes the stomach to dry up?

and the ONLy over counter mouth wash that is effective is listerine...do me a favour...they pay you for that? There are plenty of specialist rinses available over the counter that work just as well or better...funnily enough Elmex make a good one...

I never said that they were more effective in fact if you read carefully all of posts. I intimated the opposite, The advantage that non-alcoholic brands have is that the person can hold it in their mouths longer. I only pointed out that alcohol will not cause cavities when used in a mouthrinse formula following the recommended instructions.

My Dentist told me I should use Aronal and Elmex, and since I have been using it, my teeth and gums feel a lot better

I also never said Alcohol in rinses causes Decay- I did say, it leads to dry mouth, leading to a higher risk of carious lesions.

I still disagree with it drying out the mouth. I did a lot of research this morning on these points. I can not find one article that makes this conclusion. Your point of an alcohol having dry mouth is not from the alcohol, but from cirrhosis of the liver which results in a 50% increase in the parotid gland, somehow causing an obstruction thereby reducing saliva production. I have only read that the reasons for not having alcohol is because of people who do not want alcohol, either because they are recovering addicts, can not tolerate alcohol or it hurts (not due to tissue damage, but through activation of the TRPV1 receptors) and therefore they do not use it as long as non-alcohol containing formulas. From my research, it seems that all other formulas use alcohol containing formulas as the de facto control and try and establish that their formulations are as effective. I can pm them to you or post them if more people are interested. But alcohol drying out the mouth just would not happen.

brokenm, can you find a better answer to my question then? If it's not dry mouth that causes the bad breath then what does?

In case you missed the original question it was: why do mouthwashes cause bad breath after prolonged regular use?

I've known so many people who thought they had bad breath so started using mouthwash on a regular basis before going to bed end up with the foulest smelling breath after a while.

Perhaps because they used it as a substitute for brushing their teeth?

@ER
It could be due to several reasons. One may be a perceived worsening, but in actuality it is that their breath is better and when it starts to turn, they notice it. A similar example are people who use glasses for the first time. They believe that wearing glasses actually worsens their eyes, in reality they are just becoming used to seeing in focus.

Another reason would be that most of the "bad breath" halitosis is cause by bacteria releasing hydrogen sulfide. There are many studies which look at which of the microflora a particular formulation eliminates, and demonstrate that they are selective for only certain ones. That being said, it could be that a selective "pruning" of the flora allows the non-affected "smelly" flora to proliferate which may worsen the smell. My advice if this is the case, change around your mouthrinse every so often. I am certain a dental professional such as Carm could recommend some as she is much more knowledgable than I am in this field (just not about alcohol drying up your mouth )

Edit: Or what Showem wrote.

I use toothpaste from back in england because I have yet to find a toothpaste here that gives me the knock the top of your head off minty freshness I like.
What i also have however is a tube of elmex gelee - it's a fluoride gel that you apply to your teeth once a week after normal teeth cleaning. You just put a bit of it on the brush, brush for a couple of minutes and then rinse. Does this actually help at all? Are my teeth able to "absorb" fluoride and therefore become stronger? Or is it just a scam?

Okay, where to start?

Bad breath- has many factors- mostly its a bacterial build up in the mouth, best options- a thorough cleaning, tongue polishing then strict Oral Hygiene habits, replacement of old fillings, then maybe if its still there- often its a sign of stomach problems such as ulcers. Certain Bacterias like Aa and Pi (if you are dying for the names PM me and I will spell them out for you) are very stinky! Alot of people are pockets of Bacteria in the mouth due to Periondontal disease, and are never properly informed about it. Most of my patients after about 6 hours of appointments all tell me after the healing phase that their partner says their breath is better. If after a Periodontal treatment, improved Hygiene and tongue cleaning there is still bad breath- then we refer to an Internist.

Fluoride Gel- don't clean with it, place it on the teeth, leave it about 2 minutes then spit out- don't rinse or eat or drink for about 30 min, and you have now reduced your risk to Decay and/or tooth sensitivities on the roots of the tooth. Its not a Scam, germany has no Fluoride in the drinking water so you need to support that for healthy teeth and bones (yes the bones need Fl too!) with a supplement. Fluoride rinses or tablettes are okay too.

Brokenm,

Case 1. Friend believes he has really bad breath (in reality it's only occasionally a problem when he's eaten garlic or drank lots of coffee) so starts using mouthwash in addition to his regular brushing routine. After about 2 weeks he develops a persistent and consistent foul odour which he himself isn't aware of but becomes a death sentence to those who have to get close to him.

My guess is that much like oily hair, the mouth needs a certain amount of healthy bacteria and getting rid of these completely forces them to overcompensate and reproduce at abnormal rates. I guess that's kind of what you said.