Working 10½ hours a day straight without a break

I've been working in a German Montessori preschool for 2 months now as a before and after school care provider, a lunch monitor, and a substitute teacher. Often I work 10.5 hours straight with 30 minutes lunch break. This coming summer, I'm scheduled to work for the same amount of time everyday without any break at all. Is this employment practice common and legal in Germany? When I brought up this issue at work, my co-workers said that it has always been that way eversince because of the lack of funds to pay for more employees.

Anyone, please enlighten me on this. Thanks.

This is completely illegal in Germany. The legal limit is 10 hours a day, and there is also a mandatory time of rest between shifts.
Which Montessori is this? Even my sons kindergarden is only open 10 hours a day (maximum) and the women there from 7am leave by 2pm, the women there until 5 pm normally don't start until 9 am.

And there are legal break requirements - over 6 hours of work requires either a 30 minute or 45 minute break (would have to check)

10.5 hours a day would be a 43.5 hour week - also not normal in Germany.

Yes, you are being used.

EDIT: I just read your profile, so I assume this is not a Munich Montessori school.

It's illegal and immoral to make staff work those kinds of hours. I believe the law here is the same as in the UK - 30 minutes break for every six hours worked.

I suggest you talk to your employer about this.

I suspect if she talks to her employer, the employer could ditch her and hire someone else ( or threaten to ) based on the comment that another employee is working the same hours due to "lack of funds". Montessori is a private school with tuition. I would recommend she document this and, if the worst happens with her employer, report it to the school authorities. Private or not they still have to adhere to employement laws (as well as number of staff per number of children).

You can get information on the law from the 'Arbeitsgericht' - number is in phone-book, or you can go there, without your employer knowing. It definitely sounds illegal for an employee. Freelancers can work whatever hours they choose.

I dont know anything much about employment law here but people have said:

and she said:


So this sounds like she is getting a 30 minute break within the shift...or is it just me reading something wrong?

also someone said:


Can someone reverse engineer the maths on that for me as I am lost?

But as a basic principle in life I think if you are being made to work too hard, for not enough money (in your own opinion)- tell them to stick their job and move on.

she also said:

I dont see what the big fuss is. These are quite normal hours if you work in a sweat-shop...

Oh boy - math isn't my strong point and I meant to add that after 8 hours of work an additional break is required, but I still wanted to double check. And more than 10 hours a day is still a no-no anyway.

We often work 10-11 hour days, I am scheudaled for a break, but usually get about 20minutes if I am lucky, the assistants are lucky if they get pee time! I know there are laws, but not all of us have desk jobs.

Do you all expect her to leave the kids unattended to take a break?

My contract (with the Bavarian Government) states specifically that I must work minimum of 43.5 hours per week. So I believe that 43.5 hours can be quite normal.

Wow - I begged for my contract to be changed from 36 to 40 hours a week, mainly because I was sick of applying for permission to work overtime all the time, this year they changed it to a 38 hour week, my colleague has a 35 hour week contract (part time in my book) and if we do not take a break they dock us for it. They are very concerned about us not working overtime and making sure we take our breaks. I just assumed that was the norm. (ok I work more overtime and don't always take the breaks, but HR gets pretty nasty about that)

EDIT: Carm, you don't work over 10 hours a day every day, that's the exception, and most people take that in stride (well, except for my colleague who would sh*t a brick if anyone insinuated he should work more than an hour overtime a week)

Just had an exam on Arbeitsrecht stuff, here´s the deal: Workhours are not allowed to exceed 8 hours per day - or 48 hours per week (a workweek consists of 6 days M-Sat.) However, the daily workhours can be prolonged up to 10 hours, if the average over 6 months or within the last 24 weeks does not exceed 8 hours. The employer is mandated to keep records as such for 2 years. There are more exceptions for "bereitschaftsdienst" i.e. on-call-duty.

Also, if you work 6-9 hours in one day, you´re entitled to a 30 minute break. Over 9, then it´s 45 minutes.

And, my favorite, after ending your daily workhours, you are entitled to a "ununterbrochene Ruhezeit" i.e. uninterrupted rest period, of 11 hours!

The Arbeitsgericht is the law court. You don't go there for information - you take your grievance there to be judged.

I believe the ArbeitsAmt is the correct place to go for Info...

Or more correctly, the Bundesagentur für Arbeit.

EDIT - double post - please remove

The uninterupted "Ruhezeit" is to protect shift workers.

E.g. Coming home at 7am from night shift and then put on a late shift at 2pm.

The 10 hour limit with a break is definitely law. I had some fun on a project during testing when we tried to get the testers to work longer as we were falling behind in the test cases. The betriebsrats (workers council) advice to project management is max 10hrs. These guys had a one hour break for lunch - not sure if that is the minimum though.

I would definitely suggest you talk to your employer. It seems unreasonable to expect you to perform well in your job under those conditions. Not to mention what is good for the kids...

Blah blah blah Arbeitsrecht blah.

Lets be perfectly honest, employers pay you, and want you to do as many hours as they can possibly get out of you. One of the very first things said to me in an interview a couple of weeks back was "here ve eff a", sorry, I'll stop writing in a krout accent now, "Here we have a 40 hr a week contract, but normally we work 50 or 60 hours. How do you feel about that".
If I had responded with a string of bullshit about how in germany, big bad companies cannot make you work that long blah blah, I would have no doubt been shown the door rather quickly.
Communist worker unions pressure the government into passing working laws, but they simply do not apply to alot of jobs.

You are not simply entitled to it, you must take it. However you interpret the term "must".


Totally correct. It's still the law, however. Impractical and unworkable perhaps. To answer the original question:
Yes it is common to exceed 10 hours a day.
No it is not legal.

The company I did work for here in Munich were always very specific about this:

No more than 10 hours per day WORKING!
This means a max of 10 hours WORK time, plus any breaks.

This is in accordance with the Employment laws in Germany and also the EU rules / laws.

Also, the employer is somehow partly responsible for employees during travelling time (TO and FROM work).
If an employee has a car accident on htier way home after a 12 hour working day, the insurance won't usually pay and the company is held responsible.

If your own Manager insists you work more than the 10 hours, then he could be personally held responsible for any accidents!

WH

Yes, employers pay you, but does that make you their whore? I have a contract for 40 hours. And 40 hours (plus a bit) is what they get! WTF is a contract for?

Working laws apply to all jobs, that's the whole point of having laws. Just because companies choose to ignore them doesn't mean they don't apply!

Not just "could be", he WILL be held responsible!
And after all, he's breaking the law by "forcing" you to work over ten hours (even if there's no force involved and he's no idea you're there so long and therefore it's your own stupid fault).
We get told on a regular basis not to work over ten hours (not including the minimum 45 minute break) for just this reason, i.e. your manager would no longer be entitled to pass GO and collect $200...

Where is Topsy when there is all this wicked wilful breaking of German laws???

I've worked 10 hours several times - a lot of people in my group do. But then agian, I'm an intern trying to do a damn good job so that I can get a good reference to get hired later.