Just had a heated argument with a work colleague of mine who claims that general Jew population is by magnitudes smarter than the other existing ethnic group. This claim was ofcourse was based on the oppressed evolution of Jews since several thousand years.
In spite of me accepting theory of competitive physical evolution, I refuse to believe that our Intelligence ( which I think is more of the software) is affected by our gentry. This in principle would imply that we are by design better or worse than others. I on the contrary think that most of our intelligence comes from our environment and most certainly not from our ancestry.
What do you people think?
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Do our genes determine our intelligence?
Are we 'superior' or 'inferior' to others?
I have read that the average IQ of the Ashkenazic (sp?) Jewish population is higher than that of the rest of the population. Not sure why this is, but it does make you think...
Also this comes from Wikipedia:
According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, most often given as approximately one standard deviation (15 points) above the European mean, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ.[12] Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning while the East Asian advantage is in spatial reasoning.
Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[13] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science). A significant decline in the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to US citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews during the 1930s and the Holocaust during the 1940s.[14]
Whether this difference in IQ and achievement is due entirely to a culture of study and vocational training (environment), or partially to a difference in genetic variables, is presently unknown and controversial.
Also this comes from Wikipedia:
According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, most often given as approximately one standard deviation (15 points) above the European mean, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ.[12] Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning while the East Asian advantage is in spatial reasoning.
Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[13] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science). A significant decline in the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to US citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews during the 1930s and the Holocaust during the 1940s.[14]
Whether this difference in IQ and achievement is due entirely to a culture of study and vocational training (environment), or partially to a difference in genetic variables, is presently unknown and controversial.
Genes have a hell of a lot to do with IQ. However, just cause you have the ability doesn't mean you can or will. The reverse is also true, just because you have less ability doesn't mean that you can't or won't.
Genes either make the road to high IQ easy or hard, it is the traveller that determines just how far they will go.
Your Jew bud sounds like a racist pig.
Genes either make the road to high IQ easy or hard, it is the traveller that determines just how far they will go.
Your Jew bud sounds like a racist pig.
All you need to know is here really
The basic conclusion is that yes genes do contribute to our intelligence.
I could imagine a situation where a particular group of people are under more pressure to survive than they are now, not so much in a physical sense, but in a sense where if you didnt have your whits about you then you wouldnt develop the means to bear as many offspring as those who do. In such a community, successive generations would get smarter. Thats one of the 2 basic principles of evolution.
Compare that to a society where it doesnt really matter how clever you are you still have on average the same number of offspring as everyone else who might be smarter or less smart than you. i.e. There is no correlation between IQ and number of offspring, then we might expect successive generations to stay about the same as far as intelligence goes.
The third scenario, which is actually what the human species as a whole is currently exhibiting, is a negative correlation between intelligence and number of offspring raised. This occurs both on an individual level, and also with communities. Perhaps intelligence isnt the right word to apply to communities, but if we can use statistics like patents issued, industrial growth, nobel prizes won, the ability of the community to sustain a comfortable life for its members in a sensible manner etc, then we can see how this negative correlation would lead to a situation where successive generations are in fact becoming less smart.
Is this us acting in spite of evolution? Perhaps we have gotten too smart, and that smartness is threatening the ability of the planet to sustain life and evolution is acting on another level, not trying to improve the fitness of our species but rather the fitness of life on earth itself, at the expense of one particular trait of our species?
The basic conclusion is that yes genes do contribute to our intelligence.
I could imagine a situation where a particular group of people are under more pressure to survive than they are now, not so much in a physical sense, but in a sense where if you didnt have your whits about you then you wouldnt develop the means to bear as many offspring as those who do. In such a community, successive generations would get smarter. Thats one of the 2 basic principles of evolution.
Compare that to a society where it doesnt really matter how clever you are you still have on average the same number of offspring as everyone else who might be smarter or less smart than you. i.e. There is no correlation between IQ and number of offspring, then we might expect successive generations to stay about the same as far as intelligence goes.
The third scenario, which is actually what the human species as a whole is currently exhibiting, is a negative correlation between intelligence and number of offspring raised. This occurs both on an individual level, and also with communities. Perhaps intelligence isnt the right word to apply to communities, but if we can use statistics like patents issued, industrial growth, nobel prizes won, the ability of the community to sustain a comfortable life for its members in a sensible manner etc, then we can see how this negative correlation would lead to a situation where successive generations are in fact becoming less smart.
Is this us acting in spite of evolution? Perhaps we have gotten too smart, and that smartness is threatening the ability of the planet to sustain life and evolution is acting on another level, not trying to improve the fitness of our species but rather the fitness of life on earth itself, at the expense of one particular trait of our species?
The Simpsons Principle. It is all in the family.
I personally believe its a combination of both. There are people that are intelligent, but their kids are, well, a few sandwiches short if a picnic, then there are average parents with very intelligent children. But was it the enviroment they were brought up in or what?
If it were all true, then you wouldn't have some children from a family become accomplished academics while others pump gas (not saying that either is better or worse- so nobody get their panties in a bunch!).
I grew up with a set of twins, I was very close to both Cathy and Chirstine, Cathy was always the more accomplished student and athlete, were Chris was not. Cathy has 2 univeristy degrees, and Chris, well finished highschool, and now works in a Kitchen doing dishes in a hospital (also an important job). So, what does science and psychology have to say about that? They have the same parents and were brought up in the same house- neither one was favoured.
If it were all true, then you wouldn't have some children from a family become accomplished academics while others pump gas (not saying that either is better or worse- so nobody get their panties in a bunch!).
I grew up with a set of twins, I was very close to both Cathy and Chirstine, Cathy was always the more accomplished student and athlete, were Chris was not. Cathy has 2 univeristy degrees, and Chris, well finished highschool, and now works in a Kitchen doing dishes in a hospital (also an important job). So, what does science and psychology have to say about that? They have the same parents and were brought up in the same house- neither one was favoured.
See post #3.
yes
QUOTE (Rahul @ Mar 17 2006, 6:00 pm) 
Just had a heated argument with a work colleague of mine who claims that general Jew population is by magnitudes smarter than the other existing ethnic group.
Erm... now this might not be the most tactful of moves, buuuuuuuuut... I believe it is a valid point.
Imagine you live in a dictatorship where you have just been declared Enemy No.1. Other citizens are smashing your windows, setting your property on fire and generally being horrible. Soon you hear that friends and relatives are being rounded up and carted off.
Do you stay, organise and fight? Do you have it away sharpish on your toes? Do you stick around until you get carted off too?
When I was pregnant with my first child I read in New Scientist that they had discovered the location of the gene for intellegence - and that it was on the X chromosome - meaning it had to be inherited from the mother.
I was pleased.
I was pleased.
Yes, but the second gene for the extra brain is on the Y chromosome and everyone knows that two heads are better than one.
As a trained psychologist I am utterly and totally opposed to the bogus research that implies one race/gender/sexuality is more 'intelligent' than another.
1. measuring 'intelligence' as a one-dimensional score is as redundant as measuring personality as a number
2. what we call 'intelligence' as measured in IQ tests is a mix of inate abilities and learned behaviour and information (viz Bernstein and Bernstein's seminal paper that showed if you translated the standard schools IQ test into Haarlem dialect, black NYC kids scored one standard de4viation better than their white counterparts - thus reversing the artefact of the standard test when used in a school setting)
3. Racial populations will always show a broad spectrum of ability from genius level on multiple paranmeters down to very low function indeed. The differences within populations are therefore magnitudes of times greater than the statistical differences between population averages.
4. IMHO people who focus on race differences in ability of this kind invariably have a racist agenda whether they be white, black, jewish or whatever.
1. measuring 'intelligence' as a one-dimensional score is as redundant as measuring personality as a number
2. what we call 'intelligence' as measured in IQ tests is a mix of inate abilities and learned behaviour and information (viz Bernstein and Bernstein's seminal paper that showed if you translated the standard schools IQ test into Haarlem dialect, black NYC kids scored one standard de4viation better than their white counterparts - thus reversing the artefact of the standard test when used in a school setting)
3. Racial populations will always show a broad spectrum of ability from genius level on multiple paranmeters down to very low function indeed. The differences within populations are therefore magnitudes of times greater than the statistical differences between population averages.
4. IMHO people who focus on race differences in ability of this kind invariably have a racist agenda whether they be white, black, jewish or whatever.
having said all that. There are multiple facets to what one might call intelligence and the Wisconsin test when used as a broad spectrum measurement of many abilities can be an extremely useful diagnostic tool following brain injury or disease. The individual components of the WAIS and WISC tests have been shown to have quite a remarkable degree of correlation between close genetic relatives. It is likely therefopre that a large number of genes are involved in the generation of proteins and neurotransmitters in brain regions that may or may not enhance ability in one facet or another.
1) You are correct sir.
2) As a scientist, I don't judge people on their communication skills. That alone is the most flawed part of any IQ test.
3) 1+1=3 and can be proven; therefore statistics are as bogus as you want them to be.
4) Mine too!
Dude: You speaka my language. Now please clarify which one doesn't belong.
2) As a scientist, I don't judge people on their communication skills. That alone is the most flawed part of any IQ test.
3) 1+1=3 and can be proven; therefore statistics are as bogus as you want them to be.
4) Mine too!
Dude: You speaka my language. Now please clarify which one doesn't belong.
QUOTE (kitty-kat @ Mar 17 2006, 7:18 pm)
I have read that the average IQ of the Ashkenazic (sp?) Jewish population is higher than that of the rest of the population. Not sure why this is, but it does make you think...
Also this comes from Wikipedia:
According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, most often given as approximately one standard deviation (15 points) above the European mean, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ.[12] Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning while the East Asian advantage is in spatial reasoning.
Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[13] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science). A significant decline in the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to US citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews during the 1930s and the Holocaust during the 1940s.[14]
Whether this difference in IQ and achievement is due entirely to a culture of study and vocational training (environment), or partially to a difference in genetic variables, is presently unknown and controversial.
Also this comes from Wikipedia:
According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, most often given as approximately one standard deviation (15 points) above the European mean, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ.[12] Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning while the East Asian advantage is in spatial reasoning.
Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[13] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science). A significant decline in the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to US citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews during the 1930s and the Holocaust during the 1940s.[14]
Whether this difference in IQ and achievement is due entirely to a culture of study and vocational training (environment), or partially to a difference in genetic variables, is presently unknown and controversial.
have to say I am pretty apalled that Wikipedia would include rubbish like this. I am off now to dispute it hotly.
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Mar 17 2006, 9:20 pm)
As a trained psychologist I am utterly and totally opposed to the bogus research that implies one race/gender/sexuality is more 'intelligent' than another.
Depends on what is meant by 'intelligence' innit?
A Cockney geezer can knock ya bandy and 'ave whatever away on 'is toes. S'all a matter of the patter an' the shine of ya shoes, innit? Intelligent? Me? What I should coco. Pirate heart - leave 'em trailin' in me wake dun I?
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