6 Nations Rugby tournament endgames

If you despise Union so much why do you always post on threads about it? Why not just ignore them?

I was amazed that so many people turned up to watch paint dry in the pub yesterday. Was very annoying as they all seemed to be staring at a spot next to the screen showing the rugby that I was actually trying to watch.

Indeed. I was well impressed with the turnout for the GB Rugby League tests a while back. There must have been all of, well, 5 or 6 people there.. Impressive.

Sorry, but Rugby League is all about hard hitting and the occasional passing once you get to the final tackle and have to actually do something with the ball apart from just run at the opposition as quickly as possible. I am sure it is a very skillful game but I just do not see it as I do in Rugby Union when I watch it.

Saying that though. I did actually enjoy some of the last tests that were played. Some great action but not consistent and not really a flowing game. Not bad though

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/rugbyleague/st...,786127,00.html


Worse than athletics , worse than cycling = a LOT worse than Union. Although the article's from 2002 I'd like to see you back up your claim.

dally m, it's a shame you have to resort to that kind of derogatory slagging. i thought you made some valid points about england but seemed to be far too insitent that league players are awesome and union players crap (be they english or not).

i played union for many years and personally never could see the interest in league. for the most part it seemed like you take 13 england centres and tell them to do what they have done all this season, run in a straight line until tackled without releasing the ball. i'm not saying they're crap at all, but the two games are very, very different.

anyway, enough. i'm behind the irish now because as much as i'd like to see scotland pull off a monster win and all the other permutations required, i can't see it happening. so, come on wales, stick it up the frenchies and i'm fairly sure that ireland can go to twickenham and do the same to the english.

Well done you go on an article from over 4 years ago! Try getting up to date!

Artcle from UK Sports Sept 29 2005
Andy Van Neutegem head of UK Sports national anti-doping programme.
"The co-operation of the RFL and the Professional players in making this a reality has been refreshing and is indicative of a sport which continues to take the issue seriously" with immediate effect. ALL Engage Super league players MUST provide UK sport with details of where they will be for at least one hour a day, five days a wekk in the off season to allow for out of competition drug testing. Van Neutegem added "Rugby League has one of the most comprehensive testing programmes in the UK, with 200 tests after matches or at training sessions this year. (2005)

The NRL in Australia even will name and shame anybody caught using Marajuana-even th its not a banned sports drug.

From UKsport.gov.uk
From April 2005 to Sept 2005 276 drug tests were done by the Rugby Football League with 3 found guilty.
From April 2005 to Sept 2005 183 drug tests were done by the Rugby Football Union with 1 found guilty.
Fron April 2005 to Sept 2005 112 drug tests were done by the Scottish Rugby Union with 0 found Guilty
From April 2005 to Sept 2005 101 drug tests were done by the Welsh Rugby Union with 0 found guilty.

Rugby League although a much smaller sport has more drug testing than Union likely why more got caught banned and sacked. league is not a sport full of drugs as proven by the facts!

2 Different games totally. Its allright for Union people to slag off and put League down at any given time but when a League person states that the 6 nations have been very poor its not allowed! Try going on a Rugby union forum and many Union fans will also say the last 2 years 6 Nations have been of very poor quality overall. Playing a Rugby League style in Union will likely not work as they are 2 different games played in totally different ways achieving different aims with Union more possesion based but most union people have no idea how to play League and just think it is run and hit-which it isnt.I have given Union a try and although its not my game least have given it a go.I find it too slow and many players cant tackle one on one-while League this is vital! Different skills are needed for the different codes.Sadly many people slag the other code off despite never playing it-so how can there opinions being taken with any value?

My point if badly made and coming from a League background where the town I was brought up in has something like 10 teams running League Youth teams from u8s upto open age while there is only 1 Union club with a youth section and its not really in the town more on the outskirts and which I have never seen so i cant comment on youth Rugby Union only on 8 year olds playing league. But if 7 and 8 year olds can catch a Rugby ball why cant paid professionals like the English at the weekend do it? I prefer running rugby of either code and which is why I prefer League although often the All blacks like to run the ball so dont mind watching this style of Union.

To just bash your way through is boring and not my idea of rugby of either code. Bradford Bulls in league play similar and i hate it along with many others this style of boring bash bash rugby-watch a team like St.Helens or Leeds or North Queensland Cowboys and see how they keep the ball alive and try to play open rugby-much better to watch in my opinion. If your tactics of trying to bash your way forward arent working-see the Scotland match then change your tactics if not in that game then the next versus France but England seemingly have no leader now johnson is gone and have no idea on tactics or to change a game plan as has been shown in the last 2 games where they have failed to score a try! Where are the grubber kicks, Chip throughs, Switch balls, miss passes to dummy runners to get the defence guessing?-all basics for pro players yet what I have seen of Englands last 2 games these basic game breakers was never or very rarely used. just very poor from any International side of either code. Rugby is like chess that you must out think your opponents more than just crash bang wallop theory.

So you're admitting you're full of shit then ?
Good , glad that's clear now.

Just like you dickhead. Funny how a small sport like League did over 100 more tests than Union. Why? Surely Union with its thousands more players should be atleast double the more drug tests done to that of League?

Aww did I huwt ur feewings ??? Sowwy about dat... maybe next time u shud weah some pwotection... like ur buddies...very fething it ith too

Dont know that many League players personally that where padding-I certainly dont and never a mouth guard neither. Thing is in League the players are running often at full pelt unlike in Union when most are not hitting at top speed nor are the forwards anywhere near athletically built as League forwards. Never mind I know you are too far stuck up your own ass to see the truth.

can we keep posts down to a level a bit less than "War and Peace" I tend to give up reading them after the 4th or 5th line and get bored

too right scogs, thank you!

right, beehatches, hand bags down and back off ten paces. when you want to come back and discuss things a wee bit more sensibly, fine. points taken dally m but can we now get back on with the union thing.

ta muchly. g

Wooden Spoon, tra-la-la
Wooden spoon, tra-la-la-la

We're getting a wooden spoon, we're getting a wooden spoon

Hazza, is the spoon still down the arc from last year??

P

have you been drinking young man? we'll fend off the pasta boys for you!!

3 Leffe Browns

But just in the hotel bar. Too knackered to go out searching for soemwhere else

Handbags Handschmags..

Read THIS ARTICLE on the BBC website...

Intersting points made in the attacks on Robinson and his crew, for example:

@ Crawlie

Interesting article, funny cos i turned to Parnell on sunday and said " we are even tackling like rugby league players !" You know the style, 2 men standing on the opposing player instead of going for the low tackle around the legs.

In some ways a loss to Ireland might be a blessing if it clears the coaching team out.

Now Im scared..

BBC : Kirwan wants wales job

NOOOOOOO

@ bluedave

Yup - which leads me to my next point - the standard of refereeing in the 6N this year has been absolutely dire - never have I seen so many offsides - everyone is playing rush defence now - France were practically living behind the English (and Irish) line in Paris - and there are some extremely high tackles going unpunished.

@ pootle
I think Kirwan's alright actually.

and not to mention the number of forward and flat passes going unnoticed.

Why exactly was Martin Corry penalised for the rolling maul ?

didn't see it but the common reason for the atacking team to be penalised is if the ball carrier breaks off and then tries to re-bind onto a player in front of him. This is a penalty offence.

Yup - players not bound properly

So England will make 6 changes for Saturday

All Change After French Farce

Although I believe Austin Healey is talking sense when he says about the changes required

HEALEY'S HAD ENOUGH OF ROBINSON

I think that's crazy leaving out Grewcock but Simon Shaw isnt bad. Don;t know enough about Abbott to comment.

Based on this years performances I would have said that Grewcock and Borthwick were the only certainties for a place in the world cup team.
I dont understand why he is leaving him out

Some good some bad. More bad than good actually.

Voyce at FB not sure myself. Lewsey not even on the bench. Nor is van Gisbergen for that matter.

Centre pairing looks good. About time Abbott had a shout and Noon outside him looks ok to me.

Would have droppped Cohen for Voyce and kept Lewsey at FB or at least have stuck Lewsey on the wing.

Odd to see Goode playing as he isn't very creative but Hodgson is injured :-(. Good tactical kicker but not a very creative outlet which may hinder Abbott and that would definitely be a shame.

Still no sign of Perry or Richards at Scrum Half. Obviously we like slow ball.

Mears for Thommo could be seen as harsh as Thommo has been getting the lineouts right and Mears made a right mess of them when he came on against the frogs. However Thommo was never at the breakdown so maybe he is paying for that. He doesn't make a very good winger either.

Shaw in instead of Grewcock I can understand as I still think Grewcock is a liability and Borthwick is the lineout specialist in any case. However there were probably better options there.

Worsley should be droppped and Lund recalled form the CG to play open side. Moody is a blind side and playing him out of position is not doing him any favours. However it's too late now really so we are stuck with it. Shame Sanderson is injured.

In short until the back row 3 and the 9 and 10 are sorted out England will not progress.

This is another reason why I see the dropping of Grewcock strange.
The Mears-Grewcock-Borthwick combination in the lineouts has been one of the real plusses for Bath this year so it seems strange to bring in Shaw

I can only assume that he was worried about Grewcock facing off with O'Connell. Let's face it although he is a good player he can be a bit suspect temper wise and I would have expected Ireland to target that.

Shaw also tends to be a bit more dynamic but I still don't see the point replacing one of the older players with another one when there are other options available.

Problem is AR has left it too late to make real changes now and having shipped Varndell and Lund off to Aus is beginning to look like an even more stupid decision, especially with Sanderson injured.

Don't see anything on the bench that would really change the game either. Why not stick some from Forrester, Perry, JSD and van Gisbergen on there.

'Cos its hugely boring and predictably England. Good enough reason for penalising I reckon

and a tactic that worked pretty well for us against france too i believe.

eventually the entire game will be brought down to that level

might as well start with England's nearest and dearest.

Something to scare you even more then. Here's the wales team that will be humilificated by the frogs come saturday.

15 Byrne
14 James
13 Luscombe
12 MJW
11 Williams
10 Jones
9 Phillips
1 Jones
2 Thomas
3 Jones
4 Gough
5 Sidoli
6 Owen
8 Popham
7 Williams

Bench: M. Davies, G. Jenkins, J. Thomas, D. Jones, A. Williams, N. Robinson, G. Henson

Not a typo - the world renowned ball-carrying Owen at 6. FFS

I despair...

And here is the frog team:

Thomas Castaignede; Aurelien Rougerie, Florian Fritz, Damien Traille, Christophe Dominici; Frederic Michalak, Dimitri Yachvili; Sylvain Marconnet, Raphael Ibanez, Pieter de Villiers; Fabien Pelous, Jerome Thion; Yannick Nyanga, Julien Bonnaire, Thomas Lievremont.

Replacements: Dimitri Szarzewski, Olivier Milloud, Lionel Nallet, Olivier Magne, Jean-Baptiste Elissalde, Ludovic Valbon, Cedric Heymans.

so here's how it could all work out tomorrow. france, ireland, scotland and england are all still in with a shout and this page'll let you know how they can do it.

sadly, scotland's chances rely on just about everyone else plus us sticking about twifty hundrousand points on italy. but i'm just happy that we're back up there after so long in the wilderness!

I think I know what you mean, but didn't the Welsh think that this time last year?

yep.

but it was the success of the team last year coupled with the resulting Lions tour that have put about 7 of last years winners on the long-term injury list. Wales simply don't have the strength in depth. Hopefully, Scotland won't have this problem.

jeevesy, don't wreck it

as og says, we knew at the start of the 6n season that wales were very much under strength (not enough for us though!). it was a much hyped topic in the press. hopefully scotland won't be as desperately unlucky as the welsh and we'll be able to build.

as far as the championship; realistically, we have no chance to put 60 points on the italians. they're never going to concede 20 penalties within kicking distance and good as our defence is, we don't have the attack yet to build those kind of scores. plus, italy have simply improved too much.

i'm looking forward to the england/ireland match as a great climax to the afternoon and i think wales could surprise the french. this year, you really can't tell!

Fair enough, guys, I was just saying, like A team can fall from grace for many reasons.

And Scotland does?

Problem with Scotalnd is that they seem to offer absolutely nothing going forwards. This was fairly obvious against Ireland.

Defensively they have definitely improved but by how much it's hard to tell. England generating slow ball and then running directly at the Scottish tacklers didn't exactly test their defense. And France didn't play well against them either.

All in all it's hard to judge anything this year as the standard has been so poor.

England - slow, leaderless, tactically inept
Scotland - good defensively, no attacking potential, woeful lineouts
France - erratic
Wales - chaos
Ireland - erratic
Italy - greatly improved but lacking belief

a fair summation there wibble. anyone have any half-baked theories on why no one team has shone this year? particularily with ref to the frogs and les rosbifs.

There are so many possible reasons why England haven't played well this 6 nations. I'll list a few that come to mind but if I listed them all it would take hours.

The forwards are too heavy resulting in a lack of mobility. Slow getting to rucks and mauls means slow ball is being released to the SH who is then under pressure.

The back row 3 are not functioning as a unit. Playing Moody at openside is not working. Worseley has been mediocre in most of the games. They are not clearing space to get the ball out either resulting in slow delivery at SH.

Forwards appearing in the back line and even on the wing is also causing problems as they are not taking the ball at pace and therefore barely breaking the gain line most of the time. Look at the difference when Sheridan plays for Sale.

Not really having decided between a past it Dayglo and Corry is ridiculous. Taking your captain off is a sign that you have no idea what you are doing or that you have no faith in him. Not good for morale.

Same problem goes for SH. Dawson or Ellis, Ellis or Dawson. Neither of whom are really performing but again when all you get is slow ball it doesn't help. Why not try out someone like Perry?

Hodgson has looked out of sorts as well. Hodgson is not the best at playing off the back foot and Englands tactics have given him little choice in the matter. To me it doesn't look like he is happy with the tactics and doesn't want to be there.

Leading to the next point that he has had no support outside him from Tindall. Tindall is an out of form OC who has been playing at IC.

The centre pairing has been reasonable defensively but has utterly lacked creativity going forward. 2 crash ball centres running directly at their opposite numbers has simply not worked.

The backs generally look like they don't have a clue what they are supposed to be doing. The running lines have for the most part been awful and the lack of ideas has led to a lack of confidence causing handling errors that shouldn't even be made at schoolboy level.

Hard to say with the wings as they have hardly ever got the ball and when they have they have had very little or no space to exploit. Still think Cohen is not firing on all cylinders though.

Sending players like Lund, Varndell and possibly even Tait to the 7's. Although it will be great if we win it England are screaming out for an openside flanker and the shear pace that Varndell brings on the wing. Tait is worth another look from the bench.

Then there are the problems with Andy Robinson himself. Tried expansive rugby once and lost. Since then has tried to batter teams with the forwards and batter teams with the backs. Refused to change anything until we were so inept against France. Then what does he do. Drops Lewsey from the squad after one bad game and sticks Voyce (also not a natural FB) at fullback.

Brings in Abbott for Tindall which is fine but apart from that the only changes are to bring people into the team who were on the bench against France. These would be the same people who looked absolutely woeful at the end of the game against France when they came on. Hardly shaking the team up if you ask me.

Looking at the bench for Ireland is like looking at Dad's army. A bunch of geriatrics (pretty much apart from
Walder and Freshwater deserves to be there). I can't see how bringing on any of them will actually change the game or the dynamic of the game, should we be in trouble.

Not trying out any of the exciting talent that we do have available to us is also a crime. We will not win the 6 nations now (barring a miracle) so why not try a few of the younger faces out. Rees, Jones, Forrester, Deacon, JSD, Perry the list goes on.

There are plenty more reasons but that will do for a start. Sorry for the rant but I feel better for having written that.

our lineout had me tearing my hair out against ireland and is, i guess, the reason i lambasted them for an all round poor performance reminiscent of the previous 5 years. it is crucial to win your own lineout ball. with the amount scotland were giving away, i am amazed that we kept the score to what it was.

i also think that the uncertainty by the third round of matches over who could win or lose led to teams becoming less confident. we've virtually all beaten each other and this hasn't been taken in a positive light but has spread discomfort throughout all the teams.

we beat france, france beat ireland, ireland beat us. england beat wales, wales beat us, we beat england. and so it goes on. on the one hand, it makes for an exciting championship for the fans on the whole because there is no real predictability. on the other hand, the teams don't know what to expect next which seems to have resulted in poorer performances all round sadly. sure there are a multitude of other reasons but that's my summary of the situation this season.

at the moment my glass is half full, so i'm enjoying the whole unpredictability of it all. others aren't so happy that none of the teams are performing to their potential. 6 of one, etc. at least we've got a really open final day, for which i am truly grateful!

Almost anything can happen tomorrow. That's the up side.
*wonders which jersey to pull on tomorrow*
*prints out Wibble's article to read on the tram*

anglo-welsh perchance jeeves?

I thought I had stopped "War and Peace" posts but the summery of Wibble's posts is about right.
not sure to be honest if Scotland know what a lineout is at the moment

they know what this is though

[img]http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/empics/20040221/18/1816006745.jpg[/img]

have it.

nice!

I'll be shouting for Scotland!

as loud as you can please mork, we need all the help we can get to beat italy by 60 points!!