The psychology of online chat forums

After watching this board for a while and eventually participating in it I mentioned to a friend that a person could write their thesis on the psychological and sociological impact of internet forums using TT alone as a reference for research and observation.

I have played around a bit on the net over the years, occasionally writing a few post on various forums specific to a theme, but never as heavily as I have since discovering TT and never on a forum indiscriminate to themes that can be introduced. TT seems to be unique for various reasons but at the same time typical of internet forums in that certain personality types can be found on this forum that are found on any given forum in the world.

I have done a little research about the perceived social support that some individuals believe that they have by creating a strong presence for themselves on a forum. The semi-anonymous and semi-social cliques are an interesting example, as well as the emotional responses (temperament) to a theme that in itself, is not emotional at all.

There have been some studies relating internet use and depression that make reference to what they call the “The Paradoxical Internet Paradox�. The paradox was how a "social technology" used primarily for interpersonal interaction could increase social isolation and thereby decrease psychological well-being among its users. Internet use was associated with increases in loneliness and depression. To explain the paradox, the researchers reasoned that superficial relationships (weak ties) formed online displaced meaningful (strong tie) relationships in the real world.

On Toytown there are a few factors making it unique in comparison to other forums. Here, most of the members live in the same city, almost all of the members are Expats and share the experience of being foreigners. There are constant meet-ups where people become not so anonymous anymore. So “real-world� relationships can be developed. This on the other hand can be a contributing factor to cliques being formed and depending on the nature of the Clique can have either a positive or negative impact on newcomers. Think 3rd graders “ganging up�.

Overall the perceptions are to me the most interesting. People that perceive social support, acceptance etc., people perceiving stress whilst disagreeing, personal insults to a person who has yet to become truly real to you etc. Speaking of that, I found the following: You can't see me!

Here are some question that I know not just I would find interesting (I say this because I have discussed this in person with some friends who I did not meet on TT but happen to be here):

1. Are you or have you been a “lurker� on the forums who has not posted because you
a. “can’t be bothered, these people are idiots�
b. Feel afraid of coming under attack
c. Genuinely are just not interested in communicating with people you do not know or intend to know.

If you answered C, why do you come on the board? Do you read only informative post or do you find the discussions interesting to observe? Why?

2. Have you ever perceived actual stress during a discussion on the forums?
3. Have you felt or do you feel immense dislike for another “entity� on the forums that you have never met? If so, why?
4. Do you feel that the forums are a place for making true friends or finding social acceptance?
5. Do you find that you feel more socially accepted online than in real life situations?
6. Have you met your partner on these forums or in another internet forum?

a. if so, was there a re-adjustment phase after initial real life, physical contact ? (mean meeting in person not sexual activity)
b. or did the relationship start after you met at an event?
c. Do you discuss TT in private with your partner? Do the social aspects of your presence on the forums impact your relationship in any way? This includes simply talking about it at home.

How much our responses to post and people on forums in impacted by our personal experience and perception is debatable. I postulate that it is a very large factor.
You have the guy that always has to be “cool�, the person who needs to please everyone, the contentious that derive a sense of placement by arguing points whether they actually have a point or not. I found a quote that sums the latter up quite well:


The possibilities for analysis are infinite.

Most of all, I find my personal reactions to things most interesting. Have any of you also sat back and wondered why you react the way you do to certain stimulus on TT?
Why are the flounce, bounce or whatever it’s called threads necessary for some people leaving the boards. Why does it need to be made “official�? Why not just sign off and let that be that?

What are the deeper symbolic meanings of the choice of user names? Normally people choose a user name on a whim some, like myself use their real names. What is the difference here? This falls under the category of Identity Management. We all manage our identities whether we know it or not. Choosing our user name, choosing who to form an alliance with (perhaps without realizing it), what words to choose etc.

The author of the article listed above ends his/her essay by saying the following: “Studying what is revealed or hidden about people within the wide range of online environments can become a laboratory for understanding the subtle dynamics of the self. “

Couldn’t agree more. What about you?

Some good points and interesting questions are raised here. And, as you said, the discussion is endless. I've often asked myself, "if so many people are discussing a particular issue, and they all live in the same city, why don't they do it in person?" There are obvious answers to this, but the notion that chatting on-line is antisocial behavior has me worried.

Nice post DR. I'm curious what's to follow...

Herr Brain

.. which in itself is enough to make many people sceptical of scientific studies carried out by social scientists.

Btw, does it say anything about Bad Poets?

intersting post DR. I'll answer your questions

I lurked for a while. For none of the above reasons. It was because I already posted on another board and was quite worried about eating into even more of my work time! Once it turned out work wasn't so strenuous, and I think when Bob made Misc and Random only available to members, I signed up


no. I don't get that stressed generally. I can see how people could easily get worked up though

not yet!


yes, I'm in no doubt true friends (and more, 2 weddings so far) can be made originating from TT

I don't really feel more socially accepted online. I don't know if my on and off line personas differ to be honest. Probably not greatly, but maybe I'm slightly quieter in real life


no

I'll add that I find this and the other forum I have contributed too great places to have interesting discussions with a variety of people from different backgrounds and of differennt ages, political persuasions etc. Its a good complement to meeting and talking to people in real life

@Dana:

Long thought to do a serious analysis on poetry forums, cuz that's my main gig--though I gave up discussing poetry on internet forums long ago. I still watch. My first internet forum experience was a poetry forum, and due to my knowledge base (which seems impressive in some contexts...) and my 'moderate' voice, was moderator there for some time. I long ago 'flounced' from that forum, and there are still acrimonious feelings with some members of that board--however, as a result of participation on that forum, I have a 3 1/2 year gig (so far) with an online zine that shows no signs of weakening in its ability to pull talent, and has added a lot to what I know about my fave subject in the world. So I don't think all the effects are detrimental. Aside from that, TT is an excellent local resource, one that is good for both gathering and disseminating information (I'd cite it, in tandem with a willingness to explore Munich the Real Life version for talent, with what success the Absolute Beginners show enjoyed...and it didn't do badly). Aside from that, I feel safe in saying I have many offline friends I would not have had if I had not encountered TT.

But your points on what could be done in a study of internet forums is a valid one, and TT is unique in respect to the fact that it is not just an online gathering, but a gathering of people from one locale, many of whom are professionals in their fields. The range of personalities here is kind of astounding, actually. They all do have one thing in common, and that's Munich.

In good faith, to your questions:

Never really have been, though I have periods where I read more than post--and there are many 'younger' members who have much higher post counts than I do.


Yes, but it's usually due to some political situation, rather than the discussion itself. I'd have the same stress watching CNN. In fact, discussing it sometimes alleviates the stress felt in response to those news stories.

No, but it usually takes a lot for me to dislike someone. Especially immensely.


They're a good place to make local connections, but true friends usually takes a face-to-face relationship. Again, though, I have an ongoing working relationship, over 4 years old, with someone I have never met face-to-face. That's due mostly to fairly intense work towards a common online goal, though.

Nope. In fact, I think most people like me better in real life. They get the tone of voice that way, and probably a more human response, because I don't have as much time to think through my response. Here, I can take my time, and let Google augment my thinking. Plus, it's hard to dance online.


No.

I have, in the past, but I'm fairly comfortable with online interactions, and I've come to understand that written text is not everyone's best medium. But of course, I'm always interested in why I react to any stimulus the way I do.


They're called 'flounces', and you can chalk the phenomenon up to a number of things, not least of which is the individual personalities. They are not unique to TT--I know of one poetry forum that has a special forum where they bung all such threads, and regularly trot out the advice, "don't announce, just flounce". I think it's just a lengthier expression of the same personality that cannot let another forum member have the last word in a discussion--who will doggedly pursue an argument to the last comma. Poetry forums are notorious for this, largely because of the subjective nature of many of the inquiries being made. Political forums are probably even worse, because then it's a matter of where you're proposing taking humankind. Some people cannot let an argument die, and when they get to a point where they can no longer maintain their presence on a given forum, they feel they have to get a 'last word' in--hence, the 'flounce.' There are people who leave all the time without announcing it. You just don't hear it. That's the nature of it.

I've flounced. One flounce that was an extended flounce. My ending at the poetry forum mentioned above might be termed a flounce, though I did stick around long enough to try to repair things...and just couldn't. Eventually, the flounce was replaced by a simple signing off, no explanation necessary. I think it may also have to do with the connection one feels with the forum: if it is valuable to you, you may wish to do something to improve it, and some probably feel like their contributions are valuable. Then again, sometimes it's a simple matter of one's believing they are more central to the forum's culture than they actually are, and imagining that it will go down in flames after they leave.

Some are jokes, some are identity tags (we don't have avatars at TT--that's another area that would be a factor in other forums), some, like mine, provide basic information about the person (you can gather my marital status and name from my user name). Though, to be honest, I did have a tarot read for me at a younger age, which identified me with the Heirophant: a sort of father figure in artistic pursuits, and I'm sure that was a factor in my first choosing my username (though it predates TT). I have others. I even have one other here at TT, though I haven't used it much. There is, however, nothing whimsical about any of my user names. They all provide information.


Oh, dear. Oh dear indeed. I would jump at the chance to do grad work in this field. Cybercultures. Haven't read as much as I'd like, but I have read some. It's fascinating, yes. I'm not the mad keen yea-sayer I once was, but I do have to admit to liking the internet quite a bit...and part of it has to do with how people behave on it. That, and it's primarily text-driven--especially on forums. Also quite interested in the hybrid between spoken/written that occurs in contexts such as chat and forums. That area has always been enormously intriguing to me. And yes, there's quite a bit to be learned about the construction of one's sense of self in studying it.

Ultimately, it will boil down to individual differences as all psych studies (should) do.

Is that you, Tom?

Surely it can only be anti-social if that is all you do?

If you're serious about collecting "data" you could use one of the free survey programs. The lurkers and others might be more interested in participating anonymously. Don't forget to consider including my favourite option: "I just like to watch you fools from the comfort of my pc"... that brings a few out every time.

Why not - I'll throw in my 2c as well. Pardon if my answers are long...

I was a lurker on TT for about a year (I think) before I actually registered. I personally look at myself as someone who has been around from about the end of what might be considered "the early days" (as there were only a hundred or so registered members at that time); I'm sure that most who've been around that long certainly wouldn't think that, though, since I didn't register and make my first post until much later. I found Toytown while doing a Google search on something combined with the word 'English'. That first time, I just looked up the information I needed. But as I Googled for more local information and kept ending up on TT, I eventually started scrolling through some of the threads. I didn't know any of these people, so I really didn't see much point in joining any of the discussions as I'd have felt like an outsider doing so. I finally registered and posted when I had a question that I hadn't found an answer to elsewhere. I think it was about a doctor. Anyway, once I posted a couple times, I felt comfortable enough to join some discussions and just went from there. As I was unhappy with my job and sat for hours waiting for code to run, I quickly flew up the post count list.


Yes, but only a few times, and every one of them was because someone started telling me what I was thinking and what I meant by something I was saying that was a bit ambiguous, even when I explained exactly what I meant. I think I was just amazed at how far from my intended meaning they had extrapolated. It's amazing how often people assume the worst of the intended meaning for a statement on a forum. I've seen this happen several times in particular to Keydeck by a newbie. I don't really know him that well, but I've definitely been around on the forum long enough to see that most of the time he's just being a smart ass. It's funny how seriously people can take it. One of the most frustrating things I see on web forums (and not just involving myself) is that amazing number of people who actually think they know something about other people just because they've seen them post a couple times.

I wouldn't say immense dislike, but I've definitely seen one person post on this very forum who I am quite sure that I have absolutely no interest in meeting in real life. I doubt anyone would be able to guess who that person is, so don't bother.


Not forums in general, but definitely TT. I made some great friends on TT, but due to living in the boondocks, I don't think I had much of an opportunity to get to know anyone well enough in person to call them "true friends." But there are certainly a few I would feel comfortable trusting and confiding in.

Absolutely not. I'm quite sure that most people like me a lot better in real life than on forums. Many interpret me as aggressive online, though I prefer to think of myself as someone who ignores the fluff and goes right to the point. I'm also sure that many interpret me as one of those aggressive types described in the original post, but I simply like to ensure that if arguments are made during a discussion they stay on track and aren't fallacious in order to preserve the integrity of the conclusion. Unfortunately, I've found that a lot of people do not like to even consider that they may have made a fallacious argument and instead assume that I'm just trying to be mean. Half the time, it ends up in a very interesting discussion, and the other half it seems to spiral into pointlessness. I do think the interesting discussions are worth it, though.

On many forums, particularly those involving - let's just say - people who are not so educated as those usually found in the expat community, many participants prefer to think of forums as support groups rather than places to have interesting discussions. Why on Earth would I seek out support from strangers? I go to forums for information and discussion, not for people to pat me on the back for having X hobby or Y medical question or whatever.


No. I met him where all handsome men are found - in the physics department.


Well, for me it was just a combination of a cartoon character when I was a kid and my field of study and the mildly enjoyable fact that it rhymes. Nothing deeper than that, really.

To be honest, I can see the overall value in studying the interactions between different people on web forums in a sociological sense, but I'm not sure so much in a psychological sense. I think that many "types" of people probably actually underneath are not similar at all. While they might appear to act and react in similar ways, I think the underlying intentions are probably often quite different and don't really correspond to similar "types" of people in real life. This is why we're often surprised about our misinterpretations of people once we've met them offline.

How do you know we're not already doing that?

Hi Malcom,

I don't ... are you? If so, maybe we could come up with a poll together.

Does anybody else here also consider it insufficient taking only one internet forum and using the information gathered from that as a base for a scientific study?
@Dana
What I find far more interesting is the willingness of people to post private information about themselves, including private photos, on a forum for the whole world to see. I am also convinced of following:
- The people in charge of this forum have many aliases
- They use them to purposefully stir up the emotions on the forum because that attracts readers and they can thereby increase their earnings
- We forum members could therefore be considered a form of entertainment for the people in charge who are observing and making use of our reactions
This you should keep in mind when using the information you get from here as a foundation for your social study. A lot of it is simply fake. So are a lot of the users.

I hope the mods don't delete this.

Hi Majorbummer,

I appreciate your post and just want to clarify that I am not doing an official study. This post is more about our personal interest in how people (including ourselves) react on forums.

When I get around to it today, I will answer my own questions to be fair.

The mods shouldn't delete your post as it is a legitimate reaction to this thread and the questions asked.

As far as people posting photos (I have mine posted as anyone could see)-my answer is a simplistic "different strokes for different folks".
Some people feel uncomfortable with using their real name, mentioning anything personal that others could or would use to define them and build an opinion and of course posting photos. Some don't. I am fine with (to a degree) mentioning my personal experience because it lends to the discussion when I want my opinion to be understood. This doesn't mean that it will be correctly interpreted but..I try.

I also like to see peoples photos, I like to attach a face to a name (if I even have a real name for the person) So, I suppose that influences my choice to post a photo of myself.

This reinforces the above statement (original post) that our choices for identity management are strongly influenced by our real (offline) personality and preferences.

I'm (a bit) interested to know why some people log on anonymously, is that related to the pyschology of the posters?

sometimes it makes sense to be slightly invisable..however if you are posting then you are obviously online.
So, semi-invisable

None of the above. I'm a member of forums I do not post to, and have never posted to, but not as a "lurker". Alot of info on the net is now posted in forum format, because free forum software is an easy vehicle to use to publish info.



Nope, but have posted whilst stressed out or angry.

Blatantly yes.


Some people spout shite. Everyone posts a bit of shite sometimes, but some people post consistant shite.

One tends to think of forums as places where people of shared interest go, but with TT its more about shared location and language, so Toytown is certainly a place where you can make friends. Dunno about other forums, only really post here.


No.


No. Only internet wierdos like Jimbo and Crawlie do shit like that...and Foxy and winegirl, obv.

It's probably a moderator.

I can assure you I am not moderator..just ask Bob.
Just Dana the girl from Georgia new to TT the end of 2005..promise!

And this thread hardly trolls, stirs up feelings etc..unless one feels somehow "spoken to" by some of the descriptions in the original post

edit: but I find the insinuation a fascinating response to this thread

That's what they all say.

One thing's for certain: if you're gonna base a study like this solely on Toytown, your best results will not be from volunteered information.

This is a very interesting thread. Well done for posting it and for the obvious time and thought that went into your post.
I'm going to go away and read the article that DanaRae mentioned and then maybe I'll come back here and post something intelligent and relevant.

This thread reminds me of the cartoon from Peter Steiner, featured in the July 5, 1993 issue of the New Yorker:

On the Internet, Nobody Knows You're a Dog

I think the following thread (post 91 onwards) alone provides enough insight into the psychology of some of the core (trying to avoid saying Clique) members of TT.

Twisted Movie

Or you could try The world's most pierced woman. S'got a special place in my heart, that thread does.

social support is all about perception; if you think the relationships you develop in chat forums are strong and you think that these people can help you, then they probably will. psychologists have shown that sometimes these relationships aren't as good as "real life" relationships, which is prob true... do you think anyone you're talking to is closer to you than your family or the friends you've had forever? cuz thats what they're talking about when they say online relationships arent strong or good... but i'm betting some of the online relationships are better than coworkers or neighbors. and some psychologists have also found that chats/bulletin boards are really helpful; some research into online support groups has been really positive. i think it really depends on whether these are the only people you ever talk to and the type of support you're looking for. if you want someone who will lend you their car or go out for a drink with on the weekend and all your friends are people you only talk to online, yeah probably not that good for you. but, if you want someone who will listen to you when you have a problem or when you have a bad day, and you still have actual human contact, then i think it might work out pretty well. so basically if it works for you, then go for it

No, I was never really a lurker.

Yes, and everyone will know what I am referring to. Frustration does sometimes occur.

Yes, I do. Because I feel they like to be someone behind a computer screen that they're not really in real life.
I don't see think forums per se are, but TT is an exceptional forum in that many of the members have geographical common denominator and are therefore able to interact with each other in real life.

Other way round actually.
Nope.

Yes, I have. I'm quite a sensitive guy to be honest which explains my outbursts. Some people like to call it trolling. I think there's a really fine line between trolling and simply saying something provocative because you want to see what people's views are on a certain subject. I like to hear different people's viewpoints and I think TT is a great place for that because despite the fact that we all come from fairly similar Anglo-Saxon cultures, there are some very big cultural differences that still exist. Obviously, there's also the fact that we all come from different backgrounds, some of us being accountants, others poets and still others IT professionals.

Chose mine due to my interest in literature and my fascination with the book of the same name. Some people have really interesting names which do say something about themselves or could do. Eleanor Rigby (might be lonely), Owain Glendowyr(Welsh sheep shagger), Shaggy(wannabe chick magnet), Baddoggie (wannabe badboy), most just don't make any sense whatsoever. Naturally, our assumptions could be and quite often are wrong.

Interesting post DR. Gave me something to think about. Cheers.