Using German credit cards in the UK

Hi,

I just got back from the UK, and had immense problems paying for things with my german mastercard as it does not have a chip and pin thing.

Mastercard UK. I could no longer use a swipe only card on security grounds.

Mastercard DE "Germany is not subscribing to the chip and pin system". I could have a card if I wanted, but it wouldnt be activated and wouldnt work on a reader.

Thankfully, I could still get money out the bank machine

One thought springs to mind, if they are doing away with the magnetic strip in favour of the chip and pin, how is anyone going to buy anything when they visit for the world cup.

If anyone knows anything about this it would be greatly appreciated, so we can change all of our company cards to the new format. Another of the fantastic range of German financial services.

in Britain...


you mean they would be buying something in Britain in an attempt to console themselves for turning up in the wrong country?

Or maybe I missed something? EDIT actually ok I think I understand, you mean how are the Brits going to buy anything when they visit Germany, sorry. I think the chip and pin cards still have a magnetic strip

Good point though to highlight that UK has moved almost totally to 'chip and pin' recently - which could potentially cause problems for visitors to Britain I guess...including me actually, hmm

The Chip & Pin cards that I have from the UK also have a magnetic stripe and I have no problem using them in German cash machines. In fact, they've been using Chip & Pin in Germany for years.

I think he meant how will the Brits pay for stuff in Germany if they no longer have a stripe on their cards.

Anyroad, this is worrying stuff.
Will I have to start carting shedloads of cash to Marks and Sparks on my annual stock-up-on-knickers shopping spree?

When did M&S start taking credit cards at all?

My UK card has chip and pin and swipe too, thought they all did ?

@ jeeves - when their profits started going down the swanney - when was that? was it 1997?
somewhere around that time, can't remember exactly when, though

Not yet. My Irish Visa is still only magstripe.

Nope, my UK Visa issued in August has no chip either.

@Topsy. Just had a look at my Nationwide debit card, and it has a chip but no magnetic stripe and works fine over here.

Not every retailer has fully adopted this system yet. Many are using a discretionary 3 month signing period according to the BBC news this morning.

It will be a pain in the arse when all shops are doing it though.

From chipandpin.co.uk


So, lets see how this all works out in the UK

My UK Visa (Barclaycard) has both. Won't the pin work here in the shops, don't they use the same reader as for the EC Cards? Never buy anything from shops with my credit card, I only use it on the interwebby.

From today the fourteenth of February banks and acquirers in the UK in Ireland are refusing to accept transactions that are verified by signature or mag stripe where the retailer(merchant) has Chip & PIN enabled equipment. As a consequence most large retailers who have C&P have been refusing any transaction by swipe in preparation for today when the acquirer will not authorise a transaction unless you verify it by PIN. Retailers who do not have chip & PIN equipment can still use the swipe but this is an effort to phase it out because customers when given the option prefered to verify their transaction by signature. The take up of C&P by ordinary punters has been very low even though the banks would have you believe that the system will save millions in fraudulent transactions.

I am surprised to hear that Mastercard DE says "Germany is not subscribing to the Chip & PIN system" as chip & PIN has been here for years. Perhaps they are not subscribing to it being compulsory to verify by PIN like it is in the UK. Both Visa and mastercard in the UK have been on screaming to me about using my PIN here rather than just using the swipe but since they do not process the transaction here they cannot enforce this in Germany.

Fact 1. You can still use a Chip and PIN-less card in the UK.

Fact 2. IF your card is Chip and PIN you have to use the PIN facility as of today if making a purchase in a UK shop that has Chip and PIN equipment.

Fact 3. Germany already has Chip and PIN for debit card transactions in many shops and this will be expanding.

Fact 4. German credit card issuers haven't gone to Chip and Pin, yet.

Clear as day, dunno what the panic is about.

PS The sub title to the thread is inherent WRONG and I'd nicely suggest the mods change it.

I personally love that I have German bank cards with "MAESTRO" written on - but they are not welcome online because they do not have a CIC number on the signature strip, and do not work therefore as a debit card. I assume these also do not work as a debit card in the UK - numbers are not raised etc?

Still at least it is slowly coming together, and we only have 1 main currency in Europe which is cool. Imagine going skiing for the day and having to change to a load of dogy Schillings.

I think the subtitle is right given your four points. If I go into a store in the UK today which has Chip & Pin enabled equipment and try and use a mag stripe credit card, no matter where it has originated from, it will not be processed by the acquirer. The store staff will have to ring the acquirer and request a transaction by signature verification. if they refuse and it is an entirely arbitary decision then you will have to finalise your transaction by another form of payment. Exactly why the topic starter had trouble with his German credit card while in the UK.

Won't stop the mods messing with the thread title. It's a red rag to a bull. No way will they be able to leave a thread title alone.

my German issued VISA credit card has a PIN. I have never had to use it here for any transaction but i was issued one. I suppose it only works for cash withdrawels.

Yeah - my German VISA cards both have PIN NUMBERS. Is that the issue then?

FACT, This is from personal experience.

Fact 5, In several shops and a hotel, I COULD NOT USE my card
Fact 6, My shop does not have a chip and pin, Shops with that equipment No Longer Accepted my card
Fact 7, Debit cards are not credit cards
Fact 8, No they havent, i agree, and they have no intention in the near future.

So, Assuming that I didnt dream the fact that my card was refused on security grounds ( fact 5 ), and the fact that it is a german credit card ( fact 8 ), I feel factually justified in saying that German Credit cards cannot infact be used in the UK in fact.

And why should they be allowed. The whole point is security, and to prevent credit card fraud, what is the point of only making a ban on chipless cards, if those cheeky fraudsters, just get a hold of a foreign card to do their dirty deads. An exception like this exposes the entire new system to misuse and negates any benefits. I can see the retailers point of view.

factfest over

i suppose it depends whether the PINs they issued with the cards can be used to verify transactions in shops rather than just in cash machines.

The mods have excelled themselves and changed the thread title to "Using Credit Cards in the UK" which tells next to nothing about the contents and is as much use as a thread titled "Using Cooking Oil in Spain".

So less helpful than the original thread title in fact. Nice touch.

Apologies Edit: Just to clarify I love all the mods and want them to have my babies, just I think the Title changing fever is getting hysterical these days. Or maybe you are just baiting me huh?

The PIN for Chip and PIN purchases in shops is the same PIN as you use for cash withdrawl.

There's already Chip and PIN in Germany. eg I used it it with my Sparkasse debit card in the airport Edeka last week. It's just being rolled out more slowly.

On German issued credit cards I was just refering to my credit card issuer not having them, but that will of course change and already has in Owain's case.

Aha. So the answer to this tricky conundrum is:

DUMP YOUR GERMAN MASTERCARDS AND GET GERMAN VISAS.

This public service announcement was brought to you by Johnny English Financial Services. You have not been charged for this advice. If you require further advice on this matter our hourly rate is €300 per hour, or one large jar of Hellmans and a box of PG Tips.

*sigh*

so can I buy my knickers at Marks and Sparks with a credit card?
or not?

this is all very confusing...

i am not sure anything has "changed". I have had a PIN with my credit card since I was first issued it back in 1997. It was issued, I believe, to enable me to withdraw cash advances from machines so VISA can earn bucket loads in charges. I am still uncertain as to whether this PIN will work when purchasing goods in shops.

Nice one big brothers,
thank you for correcting my obviously overzealous slander of the german financial system, even if it is FACTually correct.

Please replace the sub title with the word Allegedly at the end.

I intend to exert my freedom of speech and will protest loudly by walking round my desk with a banner reading, 'I cant use my German Credit Card in the UK' until the sub heading of my rightious indignation is replaced.

Come on moderators, is it really worth taking that off?

If it is a VISA then YES. If it is a MASTERCARD then NO.

Topsy - you now owe me a jar of mayo and some tea bags.

well, I've got VISA and Amex, so I guess I'll be fine
thnx for the advice, I'll see what I can do, JE

ah! but do you have PINs to go with those cards, Topsy? If not, you are just as fucked as with a MASTERCARD.

The AMEX card will be useful perhaps for scraping some ice off the windscreen, but precious little else.

@ Monkstown. Its been here for years. I can recall it being here four years ago for debit cards. Only rolled out in UK in 2005. I don´t know why Mastercard have not got Chip & PIN in Germany but Visa has.

@ Topsy. You will be fine here but in the UK if your card does not have Chip & PIN M&S will ask for another form of payment.

Spot the posh one!
Very suspect comrade, I'm going to have to make a note in the "files"

Fuck

now I'm confused again...

@monkstown - yeah, I'm dead posh I am (it's a corporate AMEX card, dontcha know, sweetie )

very posh indeed isn't she.

My german credit card Mastercard doesn't have chip and pin and I had no problems using it anywhere in the UK over Xmas/New year. Didn't go to Marks and Sparks though.

Topsy - you can always just use my Harrods personal account and pay me when you get back.

pah! Harrods?
common as muck

ok, i just phoned up my card issuer. The PIN I was issued donkey's years ago WILL work in the UK with the new system.

Topsy, just call you card issuer and ask them to send you a (new) PIN.

Maybe I'm only repeating what ppl have posted before, but AFAIK from the C&P website and the news noone having an 'old school' card should have any issues using it as a chip & signature card assuming the card is still valid. This refers to UK and overseas cards.
C&P are actually asking ppl to report if they shops refusing their cards.

Taken from the Visa UK Website

"Chip and PIN – The Facts for Retailers

From the 14th February 2006, all chip and PIN cardholders, must use their PIN to be sure they can pay with their chip and PIN card.
To avoid any confusion about whether to ask cardholders to enter their PIN or provide a signature, retailers should always insert the card into the terminal and follow the prompts. The terminal will read the card and will recognise if a signature or a PIN is needed.
After 14 February 2006 some groups will still sign when using their debit and credit cards in the UK. This includes:
people with old style magnetic stripe cards
cardholders from countries where chip and PIN has yet to be introduced
disabled people who are unable to use their PIN
Old Style Cards
Some cardholders are still waiting for new chip and PIN cards to be issued to them. Until they receive their cards they will have to continue to sign for transactions.
Cardholders from Overseas
The UK is the first country to fully roll out chip and PIN. Many cardholders from overseas will still be using old style chip or magnetic stripe cards with a signature. They will continue to sign after 14 February. "

From the Chip & Pin guide for retailers

"Although the vast majority of transactions will be
with PIN, staff should accept a signature from
cardholders with old-style cards, some disabled
customers who will have requested a special chip
and signature card and cardholders from overseas
who have an old style card. Shop staff should just
insert the card into the terminal and follow the
prompts – no matter what card is presented."

The main issue is not whether the cards will work, it's the old story of many merchants not having a clue what they are doing with credit cards; many are wary of overseas cards anyway and the Chip and PIN will do nothing to improve that, particularly as many merchants still think that an authorisation referral is the same as an authorisation decline.

Hi all

I just wanted to alert you to a problem I found on a recent visit to the UK.

As you may know, all UK credit cards have gone onto chip-and-pin technology, meaning that you have to type your PIN into a machine when you pay by credit card. In my experience, no German CCs have this, although Maestro cards do.

I have a Visa card with Deutsche Bank and was able to use it in shops on my visit, but it was refused in a restaurant because it was not C and P. Before anyone asks, it is a "German" CC in that the bill is paid off monthly, so there was no reason for it being refused because of lack of funds.

Has anyone else had this experience? I also noticed that my Maestro card was refused in Link card machines.

I realise these are anti-fraud measures but it seems that Visa is no longer an international currency.

Regards

Aidan

Topics merged by admin

Most places still have the ability to swipe cards but sometimes choose not to. You just have to talk to them reasonably and explain it's a German credit card, and that the C&P system is not in force there - offer to show extra ID if that will make them feel more secure in carrying out the transaction. This normally works in London due to the number of international visitors.

Any credit card trader in UK is able to take non-C&P cards, but if they do then the coverage for the risk of fraud risk passes from the credit card company to them, i.e. they become liable if the transaction is subsequently found to be fraudulent. For this reason some traders (mainly small ones) flatly refuse non-C&P cards. Others can be persuaded, but may need additional identity evidence, such as a passport. At the end of the day it's their decision to accept your card or not. Depends on how much they value your business, of course - the catch-22 being that the more you spend the more they risk to lose without your business, but the more they stand to lose if your card is a fake too. I have a couple of German cards with a photo (of me, of course!) on the reverse - these seem to be accepted everywhere.