My ex-flatmate is threatening me with the police

we use it (spoke to my lawyer line) at work and still works wonders.

Don't worry about the verbal contract thing, it doesn't change the fact that she is responsible for the costs of moving out and not you.

Verbal contracts are legal in Germany to some point, but only within areas which are not covered by law (yes, there is a few things we don't have totally overregulated here...), but everything concerning housing, renting, letting flats or whatever in this field is covered by the BGB (Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch). She's the one who has a contract with the landlord and she's responsible for fullfilling this contract. You didn't have a contract with her and you had no "verbal-agreement" (eventhough it wouldn't count here) for a possible moveout scenario. She can't do a thing about the situation! She is responsible, not you.

Btw she needs to inform the landlord if she's takin someone into the flat, cause only when the landlord is fine with a other person, other than the one who signed the contract, movin in, the new flatmate is allowed to move (doesn't count if your married or engaged or for your kids of course). Did she do that? Cause if so, the landlord probably advised her to put up a contract with you.

Notherthing is, that if you've been living in a flat you rented for your own a few month/half a year whatever and you move out, and the state of the flat was renovated when you moved in, the landlord can't make you rerenovate the whole thing (if you put the flat through a normal use) even if it is stated in the contract you have to in case you movin out. Even if she knew some tricky layer who somehow is willing to take this thing to court, no judge will make you pay for her 30 month livin there they'll just laugh about it and go "next".

She's more on the risky side than you are: she probably commited defraud (as said before), she most likely didn't inform her landlord bout you livin there and/or she was to stupid or lazy to set up a contract with a stranger... really bright I must say...

@NoGoingBack -

next question is - why the hell do you pick up the phone when she calls you?! She has no legal ground here - ignore her!! Change your number or something. Eventually, she will go away.

Love the typo! I suppose this is an advocate who screws you?

I don't answer her calls because I dont recieve any calls. She had my old SIM number and I have since changed to a different provider. Better rates. But anyhow, I have ignored her and as a result she likes to call me the phantom, etc, but what is funny is whenever I have asked for a contract, called her about bills, like the telephone bill that I always paid even when she had all incoming calls diverted to her. (that pissed me off), but regardless she would just ignore me or say yeah lets meet and such and such a time and never show. So my ignoring her is just a bit of giving back what she did to me. And the contract thing, well that she did not do only because she was lazy. Same with my security deposit. I said okay lets take care of the seurity deposit, give me the information so I can bank it with you and she never "got around to it." What is funny in one of her psychotic emails she said she never charged me a sec. dep. because she thgouth I would pay this plus my deposit would have acutally been 150 Euro more because of something. She is nuts. I have wrote her my last email replying to her nonsense telling her that I dont expect anything else from her and this matter was closed. She didnt take it very well of course... matter is not closed, verbal agreements(which there wasnt even one) are legal in the atter involving her and I and she still wants my adress.

So now I just sit and wait to be sued. I will most likely have left Germany by then anyhow.

My advice is not to always follow what the law says as this should be the bare minimum of your responsibilites. Talk with her find out what the problems are. I would suggest looking at the overall square meters of the apartment and the time she lived there. Use your private rooms percent of the total square area and pay for cleaning or overall wear and tear of this times the portion of your stay times the total stay. i.e. of 70sqm you had 15 private and you lived there for six months of her total thirty and she paid 1000 euros. Pay 15/70*6/30*1000=42.85 euros. And then pay 50% of the communal rooms also taking into account your time. Communal area 50sqm of 70sqm*6/30=142.8 and pay half of that. If you know of any specific damage that occurred due to your giving excessive wear...pay for that. I would suggest being up front and specific with what you will pay and why and anything else that is unreasonable refuse with an explanation. Believe me running from her calls will take longer to resolve. Call her up and ask for all financial details. Who knows maybe the landlord is screwing her over. She also helped you out by giving you a place to stay, so treat her with some kindness.

You just shouldn't have written anything to her. Now, she has black & white! (That's what my boss used to tell me - don't use the email too much. Too much B&W)

If your only contact is via email, just set up a rule that deletes all her mail. Ignore her. Especially if you reckon you're leaving the country soon and she doesn't have any address for you. Sounds like she doesn't have a case.

Do you have a ful rundown of the costs, i.e. what EXACTLY is she trying to bill you for?

You had no contract, therefore you also signed no contents form (the list of everything in the apartment that you use exclusively and their condition). When you moved out you, therefore, did not repeat the process and go through what had been done and what not. this person has no legal standing at all as she cannot prove anything at all. Not a chance.

BAsically the landlord has charged her a lot of money for various things and she cannot afford this. Therefore, she is trying to get some of the money from you and is using the standard cleaning/painting/rubbish removal/damage excuse that is ALWAYS used in such cases

I absolutely agree that there is no way that NoGoingBack should pay any more money to
that girl, but as far as rental contracts are concerned you have to be careful:
There is a law in Germany that says that if you live in an apartment and pay rent for
it, your legal status is just as if you had a standard contract with a three months notice
period. This was meant to protect tenants that did not receive a proper contract from
their landlord, but in a case like this it can actually turn against you.
I do not think that this rule applies to subletting an apartment, but just be careful
with the "no contract" thingy ...

Well, she doesn't need to be careful... the other girl had a contract with the landlord. Someone who takes a paying flatmate into the flat he/she rented still is responsible for the flat. She doesn't own the flat, so the only way she can get a hold of her new flatmate is makin her sign a contract. No three month period, actually never heard of it.

Well, if you haven't heard about it, there probably is no such law.
Unless you count BGB § 550 ...

§ 550 (used to be § 566)
Form des Mietvertrags

"Wird der Mietvertrag für längere Zeit als ein Jahr nicht in schriftlicher Form geschlossen, so gilt er für unbestimmte Zeit. Die Kündigung ist jedoch frühestens zum Ablauf eines Jahres nach Überlassung des Wohnraums zulässig."

States a year and requires a "contract" (verbal contract of course). NGB never had a contract (written or verbal) with her ex-flatmate. Of course one can say, with the second sentence everybody who didn't sign a contract can't be canceled for the period of a year, but it clearly states that a contract in a non-written form is obligatory. Taking §540 BGB in consideration ("Gebrauchsüberlassung an Dritte" - subletting), any contract between someone who is renting "space" from someone who isn't the landlord and the landlord isn't informed about the letting of "his" property, can't be called a contract, because there is nothing you could have a contract about. Therefore §550 BGB doesn't work here...

Awe. But the landlord could have known I was paying her rent and I would think she did. I assume that my ex-flatmate told the landlord her friend from out of town was staying with her but because she didnt want me to get on the contract, she told her it was indefintely. That way to attempt in avoiding getting me on the contract. I have no idea. All I know is she told the landlord I was a friend staying with her from out of town and then told me she told the landlord this so I would not have to get on the contract.

I spoke with the landlord several times but not regarding rent, etc. This was just when the landlord wanted to arrange a time to have someone view the flat.

Tell her to goto hell . You dont have a contract or anything .. you can forget about the whole issue.

Yeah, don't buy her s***. Tell her she's a F****** B****.

Yeah! She'll love it too!

She might

And make sure to ask for her manager as well.

coolmaniac is absolutely right. Don't meet this lady, don't answer calls, don't sms her. Just go and register your new address and get on with things as if you never knew the lady. She doesn't have a leg to stand on. (no pun intended) Break all contact. The more you string this thing out the deeper you'll get involved. Cut loose, move on, that's it.

Agree to pay a couple hundred Teueros to officially end the affair (and get written documentation that the affair is over). If she does not agree to this, give her nothing.

Don't encourage him by telling him he's right. Four pages of advice preceeded his post. Those people are also "absolutely right", but were helpful and constructive in the process. Two weeks later, this guy comes along and says the other woman should "goto hell" [sic]. That is neither helpful nor constructive. But given his attitude towards women generally, it is only to be expected. If you don't know what I'm talking about, have a look Employee at the Postbank tried to cheat me.

Yes smalltownboy, I see what you mean.
I hadn't read that thread.
But my advice without the encouragement still stands.

Send her a gift voucher for Beate Uhse. Then she can buy a dildo and really go fuck herself.

@Smalltownboy : I don't see what you meant . Are you encouraging someone to be blackmailed?

Did I miss anything? Will you be "nice" to such a person who blackmails you?

Have you actually bothered to read the preceeding pages where 'a few' people have already advised that the girl doesn't have any rights to claim money off her? I assume you haven't.
Anyway, your effing beeatch and go to warm places posts are quite amusing in the same is playing with a 5 year old - neither open to reason...
Well, glad I got that off my chest and I shall sit back and wait for you to whisper sweet nothings again.

whatever !

Talk to my A$$

I think he solved it by now.. ;-)