Icy cycle paths and double standards

Ok, so here is the story. A few weeks back I was walking my dog to the park in the morning and there was a broken beer bottle over the walk way.
In order to avoid a trip to the vet to remove any broken glass from Jacob's paws, I pulled him around the glass, unfortunately this meant that my foot crossed the line onto the cycle path by about half a foot for approx 4 to 5 seconds. And true to form there was a mouthful of abuse hurled at me by a passing cyclist, I could understand that he was pissed off at me and I apologised as best I could and tried to explain that I was avoiding glass. I just have to add that no part of the dog was on the cycle path at any point.
Now, the last few weeks I have noticed that is becoming more frequent that due to the icy conditions of the cycle paths, the cyclists here are using the walk ways instead, I lost count this morning on the way to the park just how many I had to avoid.
To me, broken glass is an unforseen event that I am sure anyone, especially with a pooch, could be forgiven for trying to avoid.
Everyone in Munich is aware of the bad conditions of the foot and cycle paths so why do the cyclists think it is ok to use the foot paths, not only are they putting themselves at risks...(I would never in a million years cycle in this weather and on ice)...but they are putting other people at risk too, they go so fast and you never know how to avoid them. And they never apologise. I think they should leave their bikes locked up and either walk or take transport like the rest of us in this weather.
Please forgive me if I have offended any cyclists out there who genuinely do only use the cycle paths and who would get of their bikes and walk at an point there is too much ice. It just seems like there are a lot out there at the moment quite happy to use the pathways...but heaven forbid should us pedestrians be caught even looking at the cycle paths the wrong way

I also don't understand why many cyclists insist on cycling at this time of year it's so dangerous. some of them even cycle on the road as the paths are too icy...it's so dangerous as the roads are also icy and they can easily slip under a passing car. cycling on icy pavements puts the pedestrians at risk too.

public transport's great in Munich there's no need to cycle at the moment I reckon.

I saw quite a few of what looked to be quite 'seasoned' cyclists going out of control yesterday...in fact I lost count as I was on the bus watching on my way to work. The only cyclists I see taking any kind of care are the old gals with their town bikes

rubbish, its great cycling in this weather. its cheap, quick, healthy and enviromentaly the best option. and yep i use the roads and paths as they are cleared. why do people need dogs anyway? should be more of the debate horrible overgrown rats who shit everywhere.

The cyclist has a legal right to not cycle on an icy cycle path and to use the pavement so you will have to get used to it.
PDF Bavarian Snow Clearing Law

This topic is about icy pathways, stop changing the subject Gideon, to justify your dangerous behaviour...and BTW I carry poo bags everywhere Igo with my pooch

Do pedestrians have any legal rights???
Legal rights or not, they are causing danger and there must be some limit they have to keep to when there are people or animals around..or cars for that matter

Ignore the cyclist's spleen venting. There are idiots everywhere, and what is acceptable in one culture is unacceptable in another's. However, it's a bit over the top to extrapolate one disagreement into a request for all cyclists to stop commuting for 4 months of the year.

Cycling on sheet ice is dangerous, of course. It's also a problem when the slush has refrozen into ridges. However... cycling over well packed snow or melty slush is fine (I do it most days in winter) and the occasional small ice patch, as long as you don't have to turn or brake on it, isn't a problem to pass.

Just an orthogonal question though: Why didn't you pick up the glass and drop it in a bin?

Your story is not about cyclists, but about a grumpy German who thinks he can tell you what to do. MOVE ON! [img]http://www.keithball.net/img/smileys/bicycle.gif[/img]

It was a whole bottle smashed into about 50 bits, could be quite difficult while with a dog. I have to keep a hand free to pick up any poo too...

Cyclists have to cycle considerately to other road users and pedestrians as a general rule but they do not have to stay only on the cycle path.
Even in summer in good conditions, a cyclist may use the pavement if a cycle path is not available.
That's the law.
Now if you think that cycles don't belong on the pavement at all, then you will probably spend your time here constantly annoyed.
Riding defensively means riding well - and this includes being considerate (of course this goes both ways, daft folk on foot not looking where they are going is also a huge problem, even when I'm not on my bike).

who said i ride dangerously! in fact im incredably considerate and laugh and smile and say "sorry" all the time (well i am english).

shame that i nearly get killed at least once a month from "rat" owners who insist on walking their dogs on invisible 30 meter long leashes. and dont get me started on those dick heads who think its fine for the monster carpet to come bounding in to attack my two and half year old "because the dog wont hurt him he's only playing". to my kid its a fucking monster for christs sake. it's as if a bull came running up to you (size comparisson) and the farmer said dont worry he's only playing.

i hate dags.

PS I like trained dogs (unfortunately a lot of folk don't bother which makes me sad for the dog).

The glass was broken - probably in multiple pieces, with sharp edges. No way am I touching that.

EmmaC - I am dog owner and have experienced the exact same problems on a daily basis. I have the additional problem of my dog being quite small (6 kgs). Even an indirect hit would probably do some serious damage to her. However, the best is when I am walking with my dog (she usually walks behind me) on a small path and the cyclist tries to go by, but there is a street lamp/garbage can/other object also on the path. I guess I could be nice and move over to let them by - but fuck that.

don't beat about the bush now gids - tell us how you really feel

I usually don't bother with cycling Dec-Feb but otherwise I quite enjoy it

Gideon
I see you have a lot of anger...
Not my problem
I am Scottish and I am very considerate dog owner. Please don't put all us dog owners in the same catogery. Like I said before I apologised in advance for any genuinly considerate cyclists...sorry you must have missed that part...

Pedestrians, dogs, cyclists, they can all make way for drivers or get run down! Especially cyclists who ride on the road when theres a cycle lane on the footpath, but they decide it would be cooler to make traffic slow down to a crawl.

Thanks for the link Katrina. I've been cycling on the roads and footpaths alot for the last month or so. Seeing as the city doesn't clear the cycle ways as well as the roads or footpaths, then I reckoned it was OK to do so, however I wasn't sure if I was technically breaking the law or not.

@EmmaC
Just cause cyclists can now use the footpath doesn't mean that there are no rules governing them. If they cycle to fast and are causing a danger to pedestrians, then this is definetly against the law - reckless driving or something.

*Regarding your comments about cycling on the road being dangerous, two points
1) there are quite a few stretches of road in Munich where there are no cycle paths and cyclists are forced to use the road. So drivers should expect to see cyclists on the road as well.
2) any sort of traffic on the roads in these conditions is more dangerous than usual. Either ban them all, or allow them all.

Sure there are arrogant cyclists in Munich, but there are also arrogant motorists, pedestrians etc. Live and let live.

I've fallen off the bike twice so far this winter on my way to work and I consider myself an experienced cyclist. Once was on the road, but it was my fault for taking a corner too fast. Once was on a cycle path and I was going really slow and careful. Still fell though, and it was definetly due to the poor state of the cycle path. So now I've decided to avoid cycle paths as much as possible till the thaw comes (please come soon).

Edit: *That was Moonbot who was compaining about cyclists using the road, not EmmaC. Sorry EmmaC.

People who let their dogs shit on the pavement and don't clean it up should be made to eat it or have a finger removed each time they do it.

As for cyclists on the pavement it's fine if they are being sensible but some of them have absolutely no clue. Personally I think if a cyclist is on the pavement and acting like an arse I should have the right to kick them off their bike.

In both the above the cases idiots need to learn and most are too ignorant to respond to anything other than punitive measures.

It wasn't me that made the comment about the roads, I think it was someone else...I have no problem with cyclist using roads. My point was only about them using the footpaths...

No way. roads are for cars, they are too narrow here for cyclists and its just plain dangerous, especially in winter. Cyclists and pedestrians should share the footpath.

I'm waiting for the thaw myself. Then the wee buddies can come and sweep all the grit away too (and from the roads in time for the motocycle season).
Question for the dog owners:
Do you use reflective leads/leashes/collars or reflective dog coats?
There isn't a legal requirement to my knowledge but being able to see a dog means a cyclist (or road user or pedestrian...) has a better chance of avoiding it.
This doesn't mean that other road users can be more slack but it would help (I've tripped over too many dark dogs in the dark).

What a crap bleedin moan this is !!!
Beautiful winter days of fresh air and we should all squeeze together into metal boxes full of farts and germs just to get across town. Or get into a car and ruin the air with our rotten fumes. I don't think so. Cycling is great at this time of the year. Anyone going fast will most likely learn the hard way but I totally love it. As long as it doesn't piss rain there is no better way to travel, especially in this town.

thats considerate.


you know me, gehgis kahn school of diplomacy


its not anger its experience. there is no such thing as a considerate dog owner. fact.

Thats funny you mentioned about the reflective collars etc, I saw them advertised somewhere the other day and I wanted to get one for Jacob. I haven't seen them here anywhere in the pet shops...does anyone know where I might get one from. I think they are a great idea...

Ok, people who pee on the sidewalk after having too much to drink, or throw their cigarettes butts on the ground, or any other kind of garbage should be punished similarly as well.

What an agressive attitude. Chill out!

If you are so experienced then you should really know that there are considerate dog owners...
Like I said before I apologised to anyone I offeneded but you obviously don't care about that. Maybe you've just been here for too long

the worse type of superiority-complex-arsey-cyclist-on the pavement behaviour is when they ring their stupid little bells non-stop whilst cycling 1mm behind you as if they have priority over pedestrians. just makes me walk slower or stop.

it annoys me when cyclists stop at traffic lights in the lane for turning, yet they intend to go straight on when the light turns green. there are clearly signs at the side of the road well before traffic lights saying 'bitte einordnen'. if they want to ride on the road they should follow traffic rules.

Slightly off topic, but whilst Googling for Reflective dog collars, I found this.

It gives a whole new meaning to Taking the dog for a walk!

Only in America! Eh?

Most pet shops do them. I think they are great, anything which helps you to be seen at night is a good thing. It is like joggers wearing reflective stripes on their clothing, see and be seen (to quote the old UK safety campaign).
It doesn't mean that other folk have no responsibility for using their eyes (cyclists still get run over despite all those reflectors on their bikes).
And gids, Yeti is a considerate dog owner with a very well-trained dog (especially as he also runs and cycles so knows the problems from the other side).

When it comes to idiots I am very intolerant. And what is worse, a little kid running along the pavement and falling face first into a pile of dog shit, getting hit by an out of control cyclist or landing on a cigarette butt?

bet my car's quicker than your bike.

My apologies EmmaC. I realised this after making the post, and have since edited it.


Bullshit. As previously stated there are many parts of Munich where there are no cycle paths, and the footpath is only for pedestrians. In these cases cyclists have to use the road. In fact you will usually see triangular signs warning motorists that a cycle path is ending and cyclists will be entering on to the road. So please, no bullshit about roads only being for motorised vehicles.

Wibble, I like your attitude!!! It's nice to see someone making a little light of this massive can of worms I seem to have opened...

You are on cheap crack. Fact.

@Katrina: When it's dark, my dog is on the leash and I am completely aware of my surroundings. She is small and difficult to see, even when it's light. It's my responsibility (and mine alone) to keep her out of the way.

I wouldn't worry about a can of worms. Cyclists' and pedestrians' rights to responsibly use the pavement are enshirned in law. A bit of a rant on an ex-pat web page isn't going to change the law is it? So no problem.

Aye cookie, but it is vain folk like me who don't wear their specs while walking about who trip over dogs!
Although I've never tripped over your dog (and a very nice one it is too).
Unleashed (near traffic), untrained dogs (especially at night) drive me bananas.
But so do inconsiderate road users (mucho bananas in casa Katrina, I'm afraid).

hey sorry dearest you started the rant, i just bought in the alternative view. some people dont actualy think an over priced usless walking carpet is worthwhile.

You're the one who has to live with your high blood pressure, hernia, heart burn, heart attack, whatever.

I always pick up after my dog, and I even make a point to talk to dog owners who leave their dog's mess in the middle of the street.

But to answer your question, I think that it would probably cause the most harm for a child to be hit by a cyclist. You don't hear about a lot of kids falling face-first into dog poo - I somehow doubt that it happens very often.

---and PS gideon--- I also walk as far away from other people with my dog (children, scared looking adults) and make sure he doesn't get close to them, especially if they're giving off negative "I don't like dogs" vibes. I think that's pretty considerate, considering that he's a small, non-agressive dog who wouldn't hurt a flea.

You seem to be the one getting wound up not me. I find it all rather amusing really but some people can't help but take everything way too seriously. It's these people that need to lighten up and not me thank you very much.

My friend taught his dog to crap in the gutter... worked well untill one day they both fell of the roof

Did you see the picture of my boy, he is the sweetest thing ever. And he has also been a rock to me during a very difficult two years of my life...I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that but please don't insult them. They are very itellegent and full of love and are more loyal than a lot of people would ever be...

Why is there ice on the cycle lanes in the first place? Should the Stadt not be gritting them so that they are safe for cyclists to use? I mean, this is an annual occurance...

Bollocks. Cyclists belong on the road or on cycle paths. I have always rode on the road and I hate it as a pedestrian when I have to dodge bloody cyclists.


Funnily enough, you can get them in a cyclist or sports shop. At least, that's where I got mine from. But then I run with it so I don't get killed by a cyclist in the dark.

Even with glasses she's easy to miss. The best is when I think she's "gone missing" but really she's standing directly behind me! So, I am VERY careful with her when out in public. If I can't find her in the kitchen, how is someone not wearing their glasses while talking on the mobile going to see her?


Wouldn't the dog poo help break the fall at bit? At least save the face from being scraped up a bit, eh?

Hey I think you took that the wrong way. I was thanking you for making light of the situation...Sorry

Emma, I think he was responding to me.

@EmmaC

It wasn't a reply to you, it was a reply to knusper_muesli who had seemed to miss the point.

You can tell that we've met, eh?
Maybe tippexing the word "DOG" on each side would work?

NOTE: I do wear my specs when I cycle though.

Oh. Sorry. It is all getting too confusing for me now