Mohammad cartoon on the TT front page

Speak of the devil... Welcome Don.

Islam forbids pictures depicting holy figures in general, not just Muhammed. The reason, as has been stated before in related threads, is to avoid worship to false idols and replacing god by the depictions of god and holy figures. So, if these idiots (extremists, not all muslims, I am a muslim myself) are honest about it, they should react to Charlton Heston playing Moses or pictures of Jesus as well...

The way I see it, the lack (or forbidding) of idols has become an idol itself. And an idol that is blindly worshipped at that.

Prob is, when you post it like you did above it gives the impression of a large minority when in fact they are only 3% of the population.

I'm afraid and i do mean that seriously, i AM afraid, that in the past i have always marched to the sound of the same drum as you are now beating Topsy but have now become fatigued by the constant bitching and whining heard by the muslims about so called dishonour of Islam.

In addition to all the moaning of course, which would be annoying on it's own but at least peaceful, has come the outright threats of death and destruction, actually backed up by direct action as seen this week.

Well, i'm siding with the Don's point of view now, this is not an insignificant minority of muslims now, if the majority are not the one's wreaking violence and threatening terrorism and murder then they are, at minimum, nodding silent assent to the actions of their more aggressive brothers.

For god's sake, ( meant ), we in this city of all should know what evils can be allowed to grow and foster if the majority lend silent assent to a violent and crazed minority !!!

Frankly, it doesn't bother me what any religion forbids or doesn't forbid, as long as they don't interfere with what I do in my spare time (within reason, at least).

That said, it seems to me like the cartoon on the front page is gratuitously offensive. Whether it offends people because it's a depiction of someone who shouldn't be depicted, or because of the bomb-ban, or whatever, it clearly offends people.

Unless there's a reason it's been put there, that's not related to the offence the image has caused, I say, take it down. If it was Editor Bob's brother who drew the cartoons, and EB wanted us all to see how great his brother was - sure, keep it. If there were regularly cartoons (Danish or otherwise) on the front page, and this was just one of a group of them - sure, keep it.

If it's been put up to make a point - that we can go on offending people, because ooh, look, we have free speech - then I reckon take it down. It's rude, it's crass, it's ignorant, and frankly, that's not something I'd like to be associated with.

Throughtout the Arab world, there are many public depictions of Mohammed.

On other fronts, it is interesting to see US newspapers not wanting to reprint cartoons "out of respect" (for their own lives, maybe?)

I think they should take some freedom fried and shove em where the sun don't shine. Pussy asses.

Also, it is interesting to read about the Syrian TV series "al-Shatat" (scroll down):
http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/syria/media_1_04.htm

There is an element of can dish it out, can't take it, if you ask me.
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/qatar_cartoons.asp
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&h...ns+&btnG=Search
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=cou...egypt&ID=SR2804

So it's "I won't respect him till he respects me first"? Chicken and egg situation there. I live among Muslims in Milbertshofen and they haven't thrown stones at me, so I don't attack them or their beliefs. Sheesh.

Agree with you, but then again, perhaps I don't - take a look at Computer-generated & cartoon child porn thread - should 'cartoon paedophilia' be allowed? I don't think it should, but I think satirical images of Mohammed are fair cop. Am I being hypocritical, unfair or just reasonable?

I think the cartoon on the Front page has alread achieved what it set out to do and more. Keep it up people!

Minority out on the streets of london dressed as suicide bombers maybe - but its not a fucking minority belief. I've said it till I'm blue in the fucking face, but islam has to clean up its act.
I've heard muslims tell me that islam is peaceful, that it IS only a handful of "fundamentalists". I don't debate that only a minority take action like dressing up as a bomber and holding pieces opf paper carrying empty threats about a new 9/11, but if a "minority" of right wing nazis goes on amarch, you ALWAYS get the anti-nazi marches planned. Any of that from Islam? Anywhere? No? No. Standard weak condemnation from some islamic league of this that or the other, but thats it.
Don't like what the west do? Then frankly fuck off to a rat infested shitty excuse for a fucking country like Iran. Have fun.
Think a fucking shit drawing of some fat bloke with a beard is offensive? Let me write a few pages for the press.

I am not subscribed, so I didn't see that before. But to be honest, depictions of acts are not the same as the acts themselves. I guess it's ok for a racist to make comic about killing some other race or other. It's not nice, but it should be protected. The moment you stop protecting everybody's rights is the moment you start deciding who has what right. You've changed their status from inalienable to legislatable.

So, I think that you should be able to draw a picture of anything you want and publish it. I can also guarantee you that I will find nearly all of it to be puerile, outright disgusting or just plain idiocy. But you can't legislate intelligence without eugenics and that's a whole new thread.

I can see what you're saying, Don, but I don't think it's fair to draw a parallel with far-right Nazi demonstrators.
To me, a parallel would be condemning all Christians based on the actions of a few murderous headcases in the 90's, who went round shooting doctors in front of their families in the name of god, because said doctors practised abortions.
[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38906000/jpg/_38906211_banner_ap_203body.jpg[/img]

Can we get back to this picture?

Scarlett Johannsen is a very attractive young lady, and a much better "body-image" role model than that sk*** Heidi Klum!

Hardly. You show respect as a matter of... respect. Black and white. Either you're doing it or not.

You respect them for not physically attacking you?! And because they don't you SFTU about their beliefs? Sounds more like you've been cowed by fear of attack, something that here in the West, we don't accept. As you've written it you don't talk about their religion (because any "discussion" not praising their religion is seen as an attack on it) in order to avoid being attacked. That's not respect; that's fear.

You want an example of respect? Here you go: I don't foist my beliefs on you and you don't expect me to live by yours, an idea that many Muslims seem incapable of.

woof.

Heh? Different wording required perhaps or was there a context to the first comment with I've missed (like you were saying that you disagree with that sentiment or somesuch)?

Can't we just go back to the good old days when we just shot the bastards instead of being "understanding"? We never had problems like this back then.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4673908.stm

Jus thought as an interesting aside.

A Danish trade embargo is on its way - no more beer or bacon for those pesky Muslims...

Or, as was pointed out at the comedy club on Sunday, LEGO!

There is a story in the bible that I find relevant to cases such as this. It comes from Judges 6:25-31. (You can also read the full story here).

It concerns Gideon, who was told by the Lord to destroy the altar to Baal (the local diety). When the people wanted to put Gideon to death, his father defended him by saying "If Baal really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar". I think the same applies here. If Allah is offended, let him defend himself. The same also applies to those Christians a few years ago who got very upset with "The Last Temptation of Christ".

I know that the Muslims don't hold the Jewish scriptures in the same regard as Christians and Jews do, but the principal is valid nevertheless. Surely if God exists, he is above getting offended by anything that we might say about him. It seems clear that it is not God who was offended, but his followers who feel personally insulted, which demonstrates a lack of true confidence in their God and their religion.

@Bubble_Gum

Unfortunately, he was subsequently sacked and arrested. Not only that but the paper was pulled from the newsstands AND the guy apologized.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4680948.stm

It seems you're not allowed to be sensible in Jordan.

My dear Bludger, you are missing an important point here. Allah is god, the same god you worship. It is never a matter of Christians' God vs. Muslims' God, nor has it ever been. It is one and the same. It is the same concept in two different languages, that's all.

Exactly - Peter Andre's been there loads and he's still a complete prick.

I used to make guns and hand-grenades out of Lego. If you cipped the Hand-grenade together loosely, it "blew up" on impact. My brothers head was often targetted...he still remembers this when I visit him in the asylumn!

As I understand it they're upset about the insult to Mohammed. not Allah. Mohammed is not a god he is Allahs messenger.
I still think it's bloody stupid though.

I disagree.

The higher power described in the Koran has completely different attributes and teachings than higher powers in other religions.

Memo is right. The god in all three abrahamic religions is exactly the same one, no christian, jew or moslem will dispute this. The division is not in who a believer worships but how he worships (to put it very simply).

funny how religions can turn modern world back to the farking stone age. People need to wake up and see why anyone need any religion to tell them what's right or wrong? are people that dumb that they need someone/something to tell them that stealing, killing, and etc is bad?

look back through history and see how many genocides commited in the name of religion. God must be shaking his/her head to see how humans fight over something that they don't understand to begin with.

Ali al-Sistani (the Shiite leader in Iraq) called for moderation and blamed militant muslims in part for the creating the uproar. I posted this on the other thread, but it got lost in a sea of nonsense...

I dispute this and you are wrong and so is Memo.

Big word, Abrahamic. Ooh, aah. By the way, it should be capitalized.
The deal is that a god couldn't have three (or rather two) groups doing different things.

I am lazy, but I am just assuming that the New Testament doesn't call for me to slaughter the Zionist's children.

Oder?

Fightin' talk. OG's no slouch and Memo, well, Memo could be considered 'more Muslim' than most people that use this board...

You don't quite get it. We live peacefully door to door every day without foisting our religious beliefs (totally lacking on my side anyway) on each other because we respect each other, not because I'm scared of them. Hardly, or I wouldn't buy my meat from the butcher while he wields his cleaver.
I share a cup of chai with him after sunset during Ramadan, he wishes me Merry Christmas. That's the kind of respect I mean.

As far as I know, there haven't been any violent protests in Germany. Was listening to a commentary on DLF this morning (err...from my computer, GEZ), and the federal integration specialist or whatever cool title she had was saying that she felt it was because the Turkish government has called for peaceful protests or something, and that the German Turks were following that advice.

I hate to say it, but I think that the Jyllens Posten (sp?) should probably print the holocaust cartoons, if they really want to make the point that they have the right to insult other groups because of free speech. I wouldn't find it terribly funny, but it would help underscore the point they were supposedly trying to make.

I don't really see why TT moderators would want to add link to the cartoon.

You incite discussions that will lead nowhere and insult the muslims.

Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists...etc..etc must learn from past mistakes
and live as peacefully as possible.

I strongly disagree about the cartoons as well, REMOVE them.

What is the point ?

DON"T CONTRADICT yourself.
A few months ago, when I wrote about Jesus much, I got warnings in my mailbox asking me to tone down... And now what do you moderators do? Incite this??

Who are you? Judgement is coming!

Except that one is subjective (offending a faith or belief), while the other one would be objective (no faith involved here, the Holocaust is fact.) Moreover, the Iranian newspaper is apparently connected to the regime so there´s a deliberate involvement by the Iranian government as opposed to the Danes. If they want to get their point accross, then they should stick to religion or faith. They could for example make caricatures of the Christian or Jewish faiths. Making fun of the Holocaust is silly - it happened.

Troll alert!

Different attributes than having sent Moses and Jesus as prophets before Muhammed you mean?

Here's a little excerpt from Koran:

I think psioni knows Arnold Schwarzenegger or something...

I hope he knows a therapist.

It has been scientifically established that psioni is a troll, whose other handles are known to a select few.

So, move along people...

it is probably a mod!!!

not original, but I could not resist.

if they start insulting the rockers, you've got it nailed

thats not the point. its about sensitivities. if we believe in free speach then it should be allowed. but to be honest whats happening in isreal with aparthied is enough material for cartoons. ther is a possible link "show two old guys near a gehto wall (sorry peace wall) one says to the other "reminds me of the bad old days in warsaw" other says something witty refering to the fact that now the jews are the oppressors. "yes but this time they wont let us in" god knows. it doesnt have to be a picture of six million jews hiding behind a tree with one saying "shhh shut up at the back there. if they hear us, they'll never give us our own country". BTW I AM NOT ANTI SEMETIC just playing thoughts through my head. i found the virgin cartoon excellent, believe humour is the best way to defeat all totalitarian extremism.

According to the Beeb it now looks like Islamic hackers are targeting Danish websites, protesting about the cartoons.

Will TT be next?

jewish man stood infront of a car sales room talking to the manager.
"yes i understand that the lower fuel cosumption we save the planet fron a man made climate disaster, but does it have to run on gas?"

sorry brain just went into bad taste mode and i'm thinking up political incorrect jokes to practice my freedom of speach.

Maybe you are on to something.
I wonder how I would act if I was not allowed to drink beer.
Pretty pissed off and violent, I guess.
Wait, I think I have this backwards.

Go Ajax!

Two Jewish guys are sitting on a bench when a gorgeous blonde with big tits walks past:
"Cor! I'd lend her one!" says Jacob...

or

Two gay Jewish lads in bed together, and Heimi says to Jacob "Turnover"
"Oh, about 1million a year" says Jacob...

Thanks folks. I'm here all week.

not holocausty enough but gooood

Aww... they might be insulted. You don't care that you insult them with your constant spew of craptastic born-again drivel. You don't care that you insult them when you eat non-halal meat. You don't care that you insult them when you don't force your wife to wear a burqa.


"As peacefully as possible"? WTF? According to their religion (and yours though you choose to ignore it), those who do not accept the faith are to be killed. Those who do accept it but violate a particular rule are to be killed. At least they're more consistent.

To their credit, however, when Christian groups get upset their normal reaction isn't to turn around and start killing´people, blowing up innocents and burning down buildings. When's the last time you heard of a Hindu or Buddhust group even protesting anything?


The point is free speech. Despite it being nothing but another typical Middle East excuse for a show of anti-semitism rather than an attack against those with whom they're upset (the Danish and the general European press), I hope EB posts one of the cartoons. Hell, if I could draw I bet the one I came up with would win their contest hands down by being even less subtle than German humour; a quick look through the political cartoons at al-Jazeera shows you the level these people are at.


Because you started shitting your fucking fanaticism and blabbering on about the Real One True Deity on every gods-damned thread whether it had anything to do with religion or not. At least the Muslims are consistent. Your religion calls for your death by stoning every time you wear a cotton-polyester T-shirt.


Judgement is here: Religion is shit. It's for cowards who don't want to have to think for themselves and demand immediate answers whether right or wrong.

Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.

woof.

In your humble opinion, or is it you that's always right? Only I was convinced it was me...

Well, that and a fairer distibution of wealth