QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Feb 8 2006, 4:08 pm) 
Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.
woof.
woof.
I quite agree, meow right back.
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Mohammad cartoon on the TT front page
Why? Answer: it was a non-violent protest
I quite agree, meow right back.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Feb 8 2006, 4:08 pm)
Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.
jein. without extremeist political interpretations of religion ther'd be a lot less suffering. i know a few people who have recieved alot of comfort from their faith.
Absolutely - and isn't it the case that 'believers' are reckoned to have a better chance of surviving illnesses like cancer?
And all that's ignoring one other fairly big issue - what if there IS a God?
And all that's ignoring one other fairly big issue - what if there IS a God?
ho hum a black man wearing a turban caused all this, its not a religious case its a friggin racist case folks.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Feb 8 2006, 4:08 pm)
Aww... they might be insulted. You don't care that you insult them with your constant spew of craptastic born-again drivel. You don't care that you insult them when you eat non-halal meat. You don't care that you insult them when you don't force your wife to wear a burqa.
"As peacefully as possible"? WTF? According to their religion (and yours though you choose to ignore it), those who do not accept the faith are to be killed. Those who do accept it but violate a particular rule are to be killed. At least they're more consistent.
To their credit, however, when Christian groups get upset their normal reaction isn't to turn around and start killing´people, blowing up innocents and burning down buildings. When's the last time you heard of a Hindu or Buddhust group even protesting anything?
The point is free speech. Despite it being nothing but another typical Middle East excuse for a show of anti-semitism rather than an attack against those with whom they're upset (the Danish and the general European press), I hope EB posts one of the cartoons. Hell, if I could draw I bet the one I came up with would win their contest hands down by being even less subtle than German humour; a quick look through the political cartoons at al-Jazeera shows you the level these people are at.
Because you started shitting your fucking fanaticism and blabbering on about the Real One True Deity on every gods-damned thread whether it had anything to do with religion or not. At least the Muslims are consistent. Your religion calls for your death by stoning every time you wear a cotton-polyester T-shirt.
Judgement is here: Religion is shit. It's for cowards who don't want to have to think for themselves and demand immediate answers whether right or wrong.
Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.
woof.
"As peacefully as possible"? WTF? According to their religion (and yours though you choose to ignore it), those who do not accept the faith are to be killed. Those who do accept it but violate a particular rule are to be killed. At least they're more consistent.
To their credit, however, when Christian groups get upset their normal reaction isn't to turn around and start killing´people, blowing up innocents and burning down buildings. When's the last time you heard of a Hindu or Buddhust group even protesting anything?
The point is free speech. Despite it being nothing but another typical Middle East excuse for a show of anti-semitism rather than an attack against those with whom they're upset (the Danish and the general European press), I hope EB posts one of the cartoons. Hell, if I could draw I bet the one I came up with would win their contest hands down by being even less subtle than German humour; a quick look through the political cartoons at al-Jazeera shows you the level these people are at.
Because you started shitting your fucking fanaticism and blabbering on about the Real One True Deity on every gods-damned thread whether it had anything to do with religion or not. At least the Muslims are consistent. Your religion calls for your death by stoning every time you wear a cotton-polyester T-shirt.
Judgement is here: Religion is shit. It's for cowards who don't want to have to think for themselves and demand immediate answers whether right or wrong.
Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.
woof.
Now I know who is another mod.
thank you bro. May God havemercy on you!
QUOTE (psioni @ Feb 8 2006, 4:56 pm)
Now I know who is another mod.
That only proves just how blind and delusional you are. If I was a mod you wouldn't be posting here.
And just because you don't believe in C'Thulu doesn't mean he isn't only watching you but already owns your soul.
woof.
@Psioni..
Total Bollox!
Meow
Total Bollox!
Meow
QUOTE (Memo @ Feb 8 2006, 2:56 pm)
My dear Bludger, you are missing an important point here. Allah is god, the same god you worship. It is never a matter of Christians' God vs. Muslims' God, nor has it ever been. It is one and the same. It is the same concept in two different languages, that's all.
I don't believe there was anything I said that suggests that the Muslim God is different to the Christian God, nor that it is even relevant. When I said that these people's reaction "demonstrates a lack of true confidence in their God and their religion", the word "their" just means that I was talking from the point of view of a detached observer and not that I meant "their" god as opposed to "our" God. In fact the people who I was criticising include also the Christians who protested against the "Last temptation of Christ" a few years ago.
BTW. where do you get the idea from what I said that I worship any god? You don't have to be a Christian to quote the Bible.
QUOTE
If I was a mod you wouldn't be posting here
Well, only if you get the approval from the administrator. Moderators help keep the place clean and tidy whereas the admin makes the decisions on who stays and who goes AFAIK.
QUOTE (Lupo @ Feb 8 2006, 3:40 pm)
Except that one is subjective (offending a faith or belief), while the other one would be objective (no faith involved here, the Holocaust is fact.) Moreover, the Iranian newspaper is apparently connected to the regime so there´s a deliberate involvement by the Iranian government as opposed to the Danes. If they want to get their point accross, then they should stick to religion or faith. They could for example make caricatures of the Christian or Jewish faiths. Making fun of the Holocaust is silly - it happened.
Well (please note this is not my belief), some people claim that the holocaust didn't happen. So in that sense it is a belief (although not necessarily religious one) of some people. I don't think anyone should stick to one topic - make fun of everything, as far as I'm concerned. If there are some "taboo" themes, then this is not free speech.
QUOTE (Grinner @ Feb 8 2006, 5:20 pm)
Meow
Hey, my salutation! My 50-foot-cat is coming to get you now!
QUOTE (Tomasino @ Feb 8 2006, 4:04 pm)
Maybe you are on to something.
I wonder how I would act if I was not allowed to drink beer.
Pretty pissed off and violent, I guess.
Wait, I think I have this backwards.
Go Ajax!
I wonder how I would act if I was not allowed to drink beer.
Pretty pissed off and violent, I guess.
Wait, I think I have this backwards.
Go Ajax!
Sorry mate, Ajax is a Dutch club. I think you meant Brondby.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Feb 8 2006, 4:08 pm)
Without religion there'd be a lot less suffering in the world.
woof.
woof.
Don't you think it's a bit unfair to include the Buddhists in this statement. And what about all the Christian charity organisations? Some people genuinely do believe in it and inspired by their belief do do a lot of good. It's normally only a few, in any religion, who are guilty of causing suffering.
Since the admin has taken the liberty to exercise his free speech rights by adding one of the much discussed cartoons on the front page, I would also like to exercise my right and publish a few caricatures produced by Julius Streicher in 1923. As most of you know an Iranian newspaper is now accepting submissions for a Holocaust cartoons competition. I don't think they are trying to do this as a retaliation, but more to clarify to the rest of the world that even with the existence of free speech, you rarely see a news organization degrading and disrepcting an entire religion or ethnicity. So why is it so easy to do against the muslims in the name of free speech?
German Propaganda Archive
Caption 1: The year is over. The struggle goes on!
Caption 2: Where something is rotten, the Jew is the cause
Caption 3: They belong to the church, she belongs to Satan. Both are lost to the German race
Caption 4: Why, for what purpose is the blood flowing? Behind the scenes, the Jew grins. That makes the answer clear: They bleed for the Jews
Uploaded images removed by admin in compliance with StGB §86
German Propaganda Archive
Caption 1: The year is over. The struggle goes on!
Caption 2: Where something is rotten, the Jew is the cause
Caption 3: They belong to the church, she belongs to Satan. Both are lost to the German race
Caption 4: Why, for what purpose is the blood flowing? Behind the scenes, the Jew grins. That makes the answer clear: They bleed for the Jews
Uploaded images removed by admin in compliance with StGB §86
because muslims happen to be blowing up buses and trains in europe. your the boo men. the west needs an enemy and you've nicley slotted yourself into that poition by your inaction to counter the radical elements within european mosques.
btw theres an interesting documentary on bbc radio four tomorrow at 2:30 our time. could be worth listening to on the internet.
btw theres an interesting documentary on bbc radio four tomorrow at 2:30 our time. could be worth listening to on the internet.
ok if you want to know my honest opinion, I think we should get the muslims, the christians, the jews and whatever other religion together. Then give em the boot!
And make em all sit down and drink it together. then maybe they would even talk about something besides how far they have there religon shoved up there ass. They might even break a smile or laugh. By the end of the evening they might actually swop numbers and go out for coffee the next day
And make em all sit down and drink it together. then maybe they would even talk about something besides how far they have there religon shoved up there ass. They might even break a smile or laugh. By the end of the evening they might actually swop numbers and go out for coffee the next day
Pengo: there is a slight difference between posting a picture of propaganda blaming the world's ills on a particular group and "a caricature of Muhammed". If you don't see that difference, you need help.
You're also a shit for posting pictures which happen to be outlawed in Germany and could get the board shut down. If you're going to make a statement, don't be a coward. Do it where you, not others, would suffer any consequences for your actions.
woof.
You're also a shit for posting pictures which happen to be outlawed in Germany and could get the board shut down. If you're going to make a statement, don't be a coward. Do it where you, not others, would suffer any consequences for your actions.
woof.
QUOTE (Pengo @ Feb 8 2006, 5:59 pm)
Since the admin has taken the liberty to exercise his free speech rights by adding one of the much discussed cartoons on the front page, I would also like to exercise my right
And you believe that you have the same rights here? Idiot. You and I are essentially guests here. He owns the place.
Once again I find myself in the very unusual position of agreeing with BadDoggie on a point. Actually both points. Bugger.
First up next time I have an alcoholic drink it's gonna be Carlsberg - I urge everyoe else to do the same.
Secondly Pengo you are a laugh and a half - Tehran did not defend the Danish property on its soil as it is required to do. Laws in Europe are not based on religion - be happy that they are such for if they were you would not be free to be here (as per Saudi Arabia where even crosses are banned).
Previous to this I had been very sympathetic to the Palestinians and felt the Israelis were really behaving in a terrible manner towards Arabs. This whole thing has really opened my eyes. Thanks for that.
Secondly Pengo you are a laugh and a half - Tehran did not defend the Danish property on its soil as it is required to do. Laws in Europe are not based on religion - be happy that they are such for if they were you would not be free to be here (as per Saudi Arabia where even crosses are banned).
Previous to this I had been very sympathetic to the Palestinians and felt the Israelis were really behaving in a terrible manner towards Arabs. This whole thing has really opened my eyes. Thanks for that.
Palestenians have historically been more secular than most other Arabs... they are the least of our worries.
Yes they appear to be very reasonable peeps indeed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4693668.stm
not
And we fund these fuckwits to the tune of $600m a year - hopefully that will come to an abrupt halt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4693668.stm
not
And we fund these fuckwits to the tune of $600m a year - hopefully that will come to an abrupt halt.
In this whole episode regarding the Cartoons, one questions stands out - when people are advocating freedom of expressions, dont they think about the responsibility of what they are saying and the manner in which they are saying ? One just cannot go about insulting the beliefs and ethics of someone in the name of freedom of expression.
I think there's broad agreement that freedom of speech does not neccessarily equate to a free for all and make it acceptable to say and print what you want. What I think is being said though is that torching embassies and other associated violence isn't an acceptable response (whereas peaceful demonstrations and boycotts by private people is ok if you want to do that). Its especially unacceptable when the perpetrators are somewhat hypocritical and are not completely foreign to the idea of inciting hatred against other religions/people.
And as the jordanian editor rather nicely put it, if one is really upset about islam being insulted, why not protest against suicide bombings carried out in the name of islam
And as parnell points out, europeans have been in general quite supportive of the palestinians in the dispute with israel so there's a risk that any violent demos in Palestine are going to alienate some of their most useful supporters
And as the jordanian editor rather nicely put it, if one is really upset about islam being insulted, why not protest against suicide bombings carried out in the name of islam
And as parnell points out, europeans have been in general quite supportive of the palestinians in the dispute with israel so there's a risk that any violent demos in Palestine are going to alienate some of their most useful supporters
QUOTE (the_wise_morpheus @ Feb 8 2006, 7:18 pm)
In this whole episode regarding the Cartoons, one questions stands out - when people are advocating freedom of expressions, dont they think about the responsibility of what they are saying and the manner in which they are saying ? One just cannot go about insulting the beliefs and ethics of someone in the name of freedom of expression.
What a load of bullshit - its in a fucking newspaper published in Denmark - if you don't like it don't buy it. Most of the people burning embassies have never even seen these toons. How can they be offended if they choose not to expose themselves to it (those that even live in countries where they can). As BubbleGum has pointed out a Jordanian newspaper published the same pics - why is half the Arab world not burning down Jordanian embassies and imposing sanctions there ?
There are hardcore paedo porno pics out there somewhere no doubt - the fact that they exist is highly offensive to me - but I don't go about burning and threatening people because of it. Last year the Passion came out - a film I knew I wouldnt go to see because 1. I'm Christian and 2. I consider torture to be highly offensive and pornographic - did I have a fucking meltdown on the street and run around threatening innocent people ? No I just didnt go to see it.
There are two sides to offence - one is to give it but the other is to take it. Clearly these people are grasping at offence with both hands.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4677976.stm
"Jyllands-Posten's culture editor, Flemming Rose, says he did not ask the illustrators to draw satirical caricatures of Muhammad. He asked them to draw the Prophet as they saw him.
Rose has insisted that there is a long Danish tradition of biting satire with no taboos, and that Muhammad and Islam are being treated no differently to other religions or religious figures. "
parnell : dude you seriuosly need to have a glass of water to chill down, your emotions are no different from the protestors on the streets.
QUOTE (the_incredibly_naive_morpheus @ Feb 8 2006, 7:18 pm)
when people are advocating freedom of expressions, dont they think about the responsibility of what they are saying and the manner in which they are saying ? One just cannot go about insulting the beliefs and ethics of someone in the name of freedom of expression.
The hell you can't. Freedom of speech necessarily protects speech you don't like. Speech that everyone agrees with doesn't need protection. I shit on all religions. I say this in public. I write it here although that's only if Editor Bob lets me since it's his board and he determines what speech is appropriate here. But the government cannot (with the exception in Germany of Nazi propaganda).
QUOTE (boomtown_rat @ Feb 8 2006, 7:23 pm)
I think there's broad agreement that freedom of speech does not neccessarily equate to a free for all and make it acceptable to say and print what you want.
WTF? Broad agreement? Only where "broad" = "you, the naive one above, sarabyrd and a couple other milquetoasts". Freedom of speech necessarily equates to allowing anything to be said regardless of who it might offend. That's the speech you have to protect. Millions have died in seeking or protecting this right. Libel and fraud laws make sure what is said is true.
QUOTE (boomtown_rat @ Feb 8 2006, 7:23 pm)
...hypocritical and are not completely foreign to the idea of inciting hatred against other religions/people.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. It's their religion, not mine. I will not be bound by their religious beliefs and I doubt you want to be, either. Or do you believe all women should be forced to wear burqas already? That they don't is an affront to the Muslims. And you want to take away my fucking right to state an opinion because it might offend someone?
Fuck you. An idea like that is the most offensive one yet. I'm offended and angry and still I'm not about to burn down your house.
woof.
QUOTE (the_wise_morpheus @ Feb 8 2006, 7:50 pm)
parnell : dude you seriuosly need to have a glass of water to chill down, your emotions are no different from the protestors on the streets.
how the fuck would u kno ?
And you're entirely out of order in any case - I'm sitting here typing on a machine - alebit with a big smile on my face because your arguments are so bereft of logic that you cannot come up with a decent counter to mine.
well if you think I am here to argue over your logic, I am sorry to say I am not. You are free to think, say and type under "Freedom of expression". I am sorry for not having the impatience to discuss any further. Peace be with you. Cheers
Peace be with u 2 man but u were still outta line.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Feb 8 2006, 7:52 pm)
The hell you can't. Freedom of speech necessarily protects speech you don't like. Speech that everyone agrees with doesn't need protection. I shit on all religions. I say this in public. I write it here although that's only if Editor Bob lets me since it's his board and he determines what speech is appropriate here. But the government cannot (with the exception in Germany of Nazi propaganda).
WTF? Broad agreement? Only where "broad" = "you, the naive one above, sarabyrd and a couple other milquetoasts". Freedom of speech necessarily equates to allowing anything to be said regardless of who it might offend. That's the speech you have to protect. Millions have died in seeking or protecting this right. Libel and fraud laws make sure what is said is true.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. It's their religion, not mine. I will not be bound by their religious beliefs and I doubt you want to be, either. Or do you believe all women should be forced to wear burqas already? That they don't is an affront to the Muslims. And you want to take away my fucking right to state an opinion because it might offend someone?
Fuck you. An idea like that is the most offensive one yet. I'm offended and angry and still I'm not about to burn down your house.
woof.
WTF? Broad agreement? Only where "broad" = "you, the naive one above, sarabyrd and a couple other milquetoasts". Freedom of speech necessarily equates to allowing anything to be said regardless of who it might offend. That's the speech you have to protect. Millions have died in seeking or protecting this right. Libel and fraud laws make sure what is said is true.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. It's their religion, not mine. I will not be bound by their religious beliefs and I doubt you want to be, either. Or do you believe all women should be forced to wear burqas already? That they don't is an affront to the Muslims. And you want to take away my fucking right to state an opinion because it might offend someone?
Fuck you. An idea like that is the most offensive one yet. I'm offended and angry and still I'm not about to burn down your house.
woof.
With a tone of voice like that you'd be the prime suspect if the house did get burned down. In fact, you're damn lucky freedom of expression exists otherwise you would've been fucked a long time ago.
You like to make as if you're a real knowall. Have you bothered reading the news on Yahoo? Funny, but freedom of speech means different things in different countries. Break out of your First Amendment frame of thinking and realise that in Sweden, a clergyman was nailed for saying things against gays, Germany has laws preventing hate speech, a couple of BNP guys got nailed for saying Muslims are wicked and in Austria and France it is illegal to saying anything anti-Semitic. So clearly, freedom of speech does not exist in Europe and Muslims have every right to feel aggrieved. That's a fuckload of information you haven't googled my friend so next time you come out with all guns fucking blazing make sure they're loaded because you will be standing there like a fart in the wind.
And one other thing. You shouldn't go around shitting on other peoples' religions. You should respect other people's beliefs if you expect it back. If you think you're so intellectually superior then you should set an example that they can follow. If they don't, then that's their tough shit, at least, you've kept the moral high ground. Unfortunately, I don't see any of that over here. Just another wannabe bohemian who thinks rejecting religion adds another few points to his IQ.
Woof all the way back to you stray poodle!
Today the Muhammad cartoon was published on the TT frontpage, and indeed on every page throughout the non-forum half of the website. This was a non-violent protest in response to the violent threats and intimidation experienced by those who publicly criticise Islam.
Today the anti-nazi logo was published on the TT frontpage, and indeed on every page throughout the non-forum half of the website. This was a non-violent protest in response to the violent threats and intimidation experienced by those who publicly criticise Nazism.
Yours,
Sophie Scholl
Discussion continues: The Mohammad cartoons controversy
Today the anti-nazi logo was published on the TT frontpage, and indeed on every page throughout the non-forum half of the website. This was a non-violent protest in response to the violent threats and intimidation experienced by those who publicly criticise Nazism.
Yours,
Sophie Scholl
Discussion continues: The Mohammad cartoons controversy
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