Found a new apartment, and everything has been going well so far. Met up with the new landlord at the weekend and signed the contract. Today I get a phone call asking for me to transfer the Kaution today (start renting 1st March), despite the agent having told me that towards the end of the month would be the earliest. A fax comes through, which I am being asked to sign, with my bank details, and a comment to the effect that the landlord can withdraw funds to cover any costs. The idea (his) being that he could withdraw the Kaution, and then request the rent, rather than wait for me to send it through standing order. This all seems a bit strange to me, and there is no way I would sign a blank cheque like that. His position is that he has had bad experiences with previous tenants and want to protect his income.
Has anyone heard of this before? Alarm bells have been ringing in my head all afternoon, and it does make me feel a little uneasy for what the future might hold. Given that this has happened after I have signed the contract, and before I move in, is there anything I can do to pull out (if I get even louder alarm bells), or am already floating on the water without a paddle? Or am I over reacting (it was a rather bad day at work anyway)?
eurovol
Feb 6 2006, 7:49 pm
You are not overreacting and don't sign such a ridiculous request.
Send him the kaution and tell him there is no way he is gaining access to your account(s).
Tom34
Feb 6 2006, 9:01 pm
First of all: look into your contract.
If it is a standard one, there is a § about the Kaution and also something about how you pay the rent.
Either standing order (Dauerauftrag) or direct debit (Abbuchungsermächtigung).
If your contract says nothing about direct debit, then insist on a standing order, but make sure that the rent gets sent in time. It has to be in the landlords account on the 3rd working day of a month, some banks take 3 days to transfer money, so don't make the standing order for the 1st!
Normally you have to pay the Kaution with the beginning of your rental period=when you get the keys.
You don't even have to pay the full sum, it can be done in 3 installments.
Second: Don't give any cash to the landlord if you can avoid it.
Go to your bank and get a "Kautionskonto" in your name and give the papers with the first "Kontoauszug" to the Landlord.
He still has access to that money if there is problems, but if he goes bankrupt it should be a bit easier for you to get your money back.
momof2
Feb 6 2006, 9:09 pm
If I'm not mistaken both you and the landlord have to go to the bank to open such a "kautionskonto" (don't forget to take your passport) ..you'll both sign some papers and you'll both get a copie...
To get your money at the end of the rental you will need to go together again...
I'm not sure what happens when there are problems though.
Also, I heard that is fairly common to give cash also..(I was surprised myself) of course get a reciept...the landlord should put the money in the bank for you and even give it back to you with the interest collected on it...that;s what I heard...Haven't moved out from this place yet , so we'll see what will happen.
try to explain your side of this deal ...and good luck
Small Town Boy
Feb 6 2006, 9:16 pm
Any interest earned in the Kautionskonto belongs to you, not the landlord.
eurovol
Feb 6 2006, 9:28 pm
QUOTE
A fax comes through, which I am being asked to sign, with my bank details, and a comment to the effect that the landlord can withdraw funds to cover any costs.
Read what is being asked! The landlord is requesting access to renter's accounts. It is also the landlords responsibility to set up a kaution account. You never have to go there in person. The landlord will simply provide you with the account details and you deposit the monies. Once that is done, you get the keys. This is already spelled out in the contract. Upon moving, the landlord will meet with you at the apartment and give you a signed statement about the kaution when you hand back over the keys. The money and interest should then be deposited back into your account.
Never ever give a landlord free access to your account(s). You may have to set up a recurring debit and show the landlord the proof of this, but it doesn't mean much at all as you may in the future have no money in the account to transfer and the bank isn't going to transfer more than your depot kredit anyway.
As for paying the kaution all at once or over a period of time, that is strickly up to the landlord. With my first landlord, we paid over a three month period and with the second one, it was all at once. The same goes for when you pay. That too is strickly up to the landlord. With both, we had to pay by the 10th of the month or something. We basically set up auto payments for the first business day of each month.
canaryman
Feb 6 2006, 9:30 pm
When I rented we set up a Kautionskonto. Our landlady kept the original signed document and we kept a copy. When we left and she was happy with the condition of the apartment, she gave me back the original agreement document. We then sent both the original and the copy to our bank who closed the account and deposited all funds from the account into our current account.
We paid our deposit in one hit and used it for our last two months rent. Both you and the Landlord should have access to the Kautionskonto but if either of you tries to move the money, the other party is notified before funds are moved UNLESS your landlord has surrendered the original document to you after you have left the apartment and he is satisfied that all is well (as was the case with us).
Eurovol. My wife and I set up the Kautionskonto with our bank and the landlady signed and received the original document. We did it all by fax, e-mail, phone and post.
eurovol
Feb 6 2006, 9:39 pm
Your landlady was probably very happy that you did that for her and a strange German at that. Most tend to want it at their bank. I think they feel more in control of it that way.
canaryman
Feb 6 2006, 10:27 pm
True, I think she was happy so long as she had the original. Another thing we refused was to fill out our income (everyone said "you have to fill out the income or you wont get the apartment"). We did not fill it out but we had no problem. I think that the Landlady has been doing this over 20 years and is quite laidback
Tom34
Feb 6 2006, 10:31 pm
QUOTE (eurovol @ Feb 6 2006, 9:39 pm)

Your landlady was probably very happy that you did that for her and a strange German at that. Most tend to want it at their bank. I think they feel more in control of it that way.
All the 7 landlords/landladys I dealt with during the last 25 years were happy with that. Does that mean I only know strange German landlords?
<<As for paying the kaution all at once or over a period of time, that is strickly up to the landlord>>
Not true, see § 551 Abs. 2 BGB (...Kaution can be paid in 3 installments...)
<<The same goes for when you pay. That too is strickly up to the landlord>>
Right, if a date is in the contract. If not, it is the 3rd working day of the month.
Thanks to everyone for the replies. My reason for posting this this thread (nice job on the title edit / much more appropriate) was to highlight the unreasonable requests a landlord (or someone writing on their behalf) might make. I was really angry at first at being taken for a mug (whether intentionally or unintentionally- and I'm a very chilled chap normally). Don't sign without understanding the implications, or you might as well get that tattoo saying Stoopid. (I didn't sign the fax btw.)
There's some great specific advice so far.
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