Determining which social class people belong to

Like most English people I have a very acute sense of the class to which a person belongs.

Since I arrived in Munich I've been struggling to decipher any obvious signs of class.

Can anyone give me some tips on how I might determine who best to be seen with?

Much obliged.

who cares what class people are from?!?!?!! if you like them hang out w/ them if you dont then dont. what does it matter if they are rich/poor educated/uneducated? if you dont get along or they are boring or crude or whatnot then dont be seen w/ them (just politely get away) what's so hard about that? what does class matter?!?!?!

You know what they say, "If you have to ask ..."

As a fellow Englishman, I can fully appreciate your predicament. However, rest assured.
I can secretly confide that those who smoke Dunhill Blue Superior Mild cigarettes tend to be the ones who will pour milk into their tea, and not the reverse.
Good luck!

Fancy people raise their pinky fingers when eating leberkasesemmel.

Poster #2 is clearly "of the people".

hmmmmmm.
will reserve judgement

Interesting question you ask, and I don't think there's anything wrong with asking it. One of the first things I noticed when I moved to Germany (this was Berlin in 1997) was that I couldn't recognise anything about the people I saw. This went beyond social class, to social types in general. This made me realise (after the fact) how much about a person in the UK I had been able to know from just looking at them. Not so here. At least not at first.

The process of recognition for me hasn't been about learning how to attribute Germans to the standard English social classes, but more about groupings and recognising types. Specifically in Munich, for example, there's a class of young-people-with-money which I never saw in Berlin. Aged from 15-25, dressed and styled a bit too pristinely á la "gute Zeiten, schlechte Zeiten", dripping designer labels and social confidence. Another general one is the haughty Kaufhof-Dame, 40-60, often with died red hair of considerable size, sans interest in customer service, working in the department store because of a perceived implication of status and authority (KdW in Berlin was full of these ladies).

A footnote, to briefly allay any negative responses to my comment: I'm not suggesting we judge people from their appearances, but we human beings have a highly developed sense of intuitive sterotyping which can often be very useful. Like, for example, that we can recognise the threat of danger in another person, although we might not know why.

Working class people here tend to have mullets, wear blue overalls and/or hang around the kiosks at the U and S-Bahn stations drinking Augustiner Helles from the bottle.

The upper classes are the people on the U-Bahn, generally in groups of 2 or 3 couples and only in the evening or sunday afternoon, that act like its such a big adventure to venture onto public transport with the proles.

Everyone else is middle class.

English are quite obsessed with class - and more specifically class and accent. The majority of people will make snap judgements on your class and social standing based on little more than your accent, and perhaps how much burberry you are wearing.

Oh, the Germans are very class-obsessed as well, just in a totally different way. It starts with the day care system, goes on through the school system as a reflection of their underlying attitudes ... (could go on for days here)
I once dated a (german) guy who told me flat out that he was "better" than the man on the street because he had an Abitur and was a beamter. (no we didn't date for long after that, especially when I found out his attitudes towards foreigners was worse, never figured out why he asked me out in the first place though).

hmm... guess since i think class doesn't matter i am "of the people" oh well!

this has got to be a wind up

EDIT: after reading this thread I have to ask, is there really still a class system in the UK or are you guys joking around?

most definitely a class system in the UK, though more chav, chessex and non-chav than working, middle and upper

@ER: No, I don't think there is a class system. I'd have to ask jayhay and topsy which one I belonged to because I don't know! There is certainly some stigma/stereotyping from regional accents, but I don't think that constitutes a 'class system', just a grouping. Or maybe that's the same thing. I don't know...

EDIT: Thinking about it, there are groups of posh folks, but I wouldn't consider them to be a 'class' above me. Just different.

Class systems exist absolutely everywhere. Perhaps the meaning of 'class' has changed over the years but it is still very real and very noticeable. In general people will always make certain judgements on others based on how they are dressed, where they come from, what they do for a living, etc, etc. For example, in general you won't find someone who lives in a large spread in Grunwald walking around sporting a mullet. Why, mullets are prolle. Which football team do you support? The working class generally support 1860 whereas the better off will follow Bayern. The mullet wearing bloke won't drink in Lenbachs or Schumann's either. Class divisions exist everywhere.

system is the wrong word, the class system is antiquated. There, however, classes in every society, even in Calgary. Mostly, these days, class is determined by money (inherited or earned). Britain still has a large differentiation between old and new money. So does the US, by all accounts, even though this is rarely admitted.

Are people born into these classes or can you earn your way in?

And many Brits take it with them whereever they travel. And it says more about those people than anyone else ever can.
Now, I did indeed grow up in Essex (and not in the leafy part either).
And yes I can do the accent still.
For some it will never matter how educated I am, where I now live, what I wear, how much I earn, I shall forever be "common" (I explicitly use that word as it was used about myself by a Brit on this very site).
For years, I was made to feel ashamed of whence I came. Not any more. I wear my Burberry spectacles with pride (they have tartan-etched arms so a bit Scotia, a bit Essex-bling, rather like myself).
Have never worn white shoes though, I must admit.
Oh this thread surely needs this picture (for the fellow 30+ Brits):

Mullet in Grunwald - does Mosshammer count?

Actually, I've noticed the opposite about 1860 and Bayern fans.

I agree with this. One of my aunts still loves to use the term new money. You see, she and some people like her that had "old money" and lost it, love to remind people that they used to have it. She is a completel snob. I have to wonder, now that her husband and her earned some "new money" after suffering the loss of the "old money", does this mean they are new money or old money?

This might just be a Southern thing though. Do people from the North talk about the old vs. the new?

The things I'd become aware of were upper east-coasters. That is where the real old families with really old money are in the US.

Nope, he wore a wig. Not completely committed there.

I'd have to disagree with you there, I have friends from all socio-economic backgrounds. There aren't any schools that are posher than others and pretty much anyone with money had earned it themselves. Talking about and bragging about your wealth is considered immodest so no one ever knew whether your family had money or not. The same goes for style of dress, it's actually a lot cooler to dress casual and you'd look like a complete wanker (sorry) if you walked around covered in labels.

I find the biggest snobs are the "nouveau riche". You definitely can't buy yourself into the upper class, but who really wants to. They've all got genetic diseases and what not.

As for the mullett bloke drinking in Lenbach, he would never get in.

And as for Bayern and 1860, it has nothing to do with money. If you're a local you support 1860. If you're from elsewhere you support Bayern otherwise known as FC Hollywood. Exactly the same as Man U and Man City.

just because you, personally, are able to move freely between classes doesn't mean they aren't there. Class can be determined by wealth, ethnic background, "breeding", any number of things. And whilst Calgarians might be more modest than some in dispaying their wealth, there are certainly classes there.

i live in Grunwald and i've seen someone w/ a mullet!!! (actually just a bit ago when i was walking in the woods w/ the dogs)

@ER- i agree i have friends from all diff "walks of life" and they have no prob moving amongst others w/ diff backgrounds.

and i'd say the old/new money thing prob depends on what region you are in in the US. Midwest it's not imp at all.

@ER

So what's it like for someone from Calgary in Vancouver?

people saying "they have friends from all diff walks of life" or "socio-economic back-grounds" also goes to prove that there are classes in NA. Otherwise you wouldn't need to state it.

In the UK it is of course unacceptable to discuss what you earn, so it seems that the big issue is the car on your drive. Middle managers will porn their kids to get a 520i rather than a 318 as driven by the Jones's at number 37.

Same here? I got no idea 'cos they all drive tractors and mopeds with trailers round my way.

Reminds me:
Talked myself into a social gaff I think last year. There is a newish couple in our village, my wife goes horseriding with her all the time etc. They were round for dinner with another couple, and it transpired that they are in fact from East Germany. So I was saying "Wow, I never picked up a trace of an accent - just shows how bad my German is etc etc". I was genuinally interested - they could have been from North Germany and I would have said the same thing...but realised later that it probably sounded naff...like it mattered that they were from the East. Doh.

Lower Class = You sit in the "Fan Kurve" at the Stadium and wear a jeans jacket with all sorts of patches, bandanas, etc.

Middle Class = You sometimes go to the match but sit somewhere in the stadium where its a little more "ruhig". You can afford Champions League fixtures.

Upper Class = You couldn't care less about football but you might turn up at a sports banquet and bump into Franz Beckenbauer.

I don't understand the question? What difference does that make?

I think there is too much of this "wrong side of the track" dramatisation on television and movies. It just isn't the case. I'm certainly no exception.

In Munich it is hard to impress with your car since so many T, D or Hs drive around in BMWs. BMW Factory floor workers here have the opportunity to drive a subsidised car, just like any BMW office worker. This basically puts the bar up if you are trying to impress.

The Mangers here seem to go to great lengths to try and show their rank (all managers here are graded and depending on your grade you are entitled to certain cars). If they can't have a 7-series they get a 5-series. The engine is just as important. None would be seen dead in a 4-cylinder, it has to be a 6-cylinder at least.

Sickening,

No, there are certainly people who have more money than others. My point is there is no way to tell and it doesn't make any difference to what social circle you run in. This may be the difference between older cities and newer cities.

Calgary is a city of close to 1,000,000 people and none of the top designers have stores there. If you want Prada or YSL you have to go to Toronto or Vancouver.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me ER. It all gets so confusing these days.

10 ways to tell you're a Bobo

He's probably been hiding in the woods since the 1970s.

@kay- hmm.. could be!

class does not have to be determined by designer lables. fashion models wear designer labels but few have any class ( )

Calgary has its fair share of classy car retailers, although I will happily admit that Calgarians are less interested in cars as a status symbol. It didn't stop me being asked which car i drove on at least 4 occasions whilst I was there (so it must mean something). I also listened in other people's conversations where this cropped up.

Wait a sec. Now yer an expert on Cowtown? That's classic.

I dont have any class and i couldnt give a sheet

I would think someone from Calgary would be classified as new rich in Vancouver which is more osrt of like old rich. Might be wrong.

In South Africa, there's definitely a snobbishness from the Capetonians towards the people from Johannesburg, the latter being classified as new rich.

As for accents, I can't stand some of them, especially an Essex one and I know in Australia, a Newcastle one can be a serious hindrance, but one of the nicest women I know is from Essex albeit you can't hear it unless she puts it on.

agree with you about accents, Ulysses, they play a large role in the UK in superficially determing class.

So why would you want Prada or YSL?

We will catch him out now.

Go on then smartypants Owain - tell us all you know about the class system and cars people drive in...errrr...Shanghai?

Not true. We just find you funny. The "ky-daar" family as an example.. arriving in Cape Town in your Chevrolet+caravan.. staring and pointing at the ocean.. parking off on the beach with your umbrellas, massive picnics, generator for the tv..

As to my personal definition of the social classes people belong to:

Low Class: picks nose, doesn't care whether other people notice
Middle Class: picks nose, tries to hide it
Upper Class: picks nose on the toilet only

I said it! TOILET TOILET!!

Jesus!! just wafted throught this thread, why cant you do something easier like in India, all I need to know is family name and I know what class he is, course you westerners have spoiled it for us too and now slowly we need to look for clues just like you guys, whats it with you guys dont like a simple life

crass but funny

the whole "diff walk of life" bit doesnt have to be class. just diff backgrounds experiences since not everyone has the same background.

Sorry but those of you who are so adamant about this class distinction are the ones who perpetuate it. Classes only exist if you allow them to.

I don't believe in their existence although I know that others do and those that do are living with an antiquated frame of mind.