Grosses Deutsches Sprachdiplom

Has anyone taken this examination?

If so, what did you think of it? (it looks pretty complex)
How did you prepare for it?
Do you think it has benefited you? If so, how?

Thanks for any insight you might have!

Chanda

http://www.goethe.de/dll/prf/pba/gds/deindex.htm

Not too many at that level around here. Looks very tough.

Probably a few who have taken the ZD though.

Looks pretty complex to me as well - I don't think I'd like to do it - and certainly not with just four weeks prep course! It strikes me that it requires a similar standard of language as I required for my degree, if not higher.

Can I ask why you want you want to do it?

Koala, you are spot-on. It is as good as degree-level if not slightly higher. Four weeks is much too short prep-time for that level. I've never done it but I am inherently lazy I've seen the kleine and the ZD come up on the odd CV though.
Katrina

@koala--

I already have a German degree...but for some odd reason most (German) comapanies aren't too interested in it because it is from America (even tho I studied here for 2 years) and not Germany, so it isn't "real" to them, I guess. I took the ZMP in 2002 and that seems to be a topic for discussion much more than my BA. I dunno.

I also majored in International business and European studies and am hoping to get a job in the business field, not the translation/teaching field. So, I don't need to take the test, I just thought that perhaps it would make me look a little more "authentic" in their eyes??

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter if they treat it as a real German degree or not, since it doesn't pertain much to the jobs I am interested in (other than I need to be able to interact in German...but the language degree itself doesn't matter much, I guess)

Thanks for your input, everyone.

If anyone out there has taken it, or knows anyone who has taken it I would enjoy hearing about your experience

As far as I can see, it is well above Degree standard, it states: those who have a command of the language of an almost native level.

Personally my advice would be, only take this exam if you think you could breeze through it. With it you would be trying to prove to an employer that you have an absolute command of the language and can communicate as effectively as a native in German. If you struggle to pass the exam, then you will be struggling to communicate this effectively.

i wouldn't bother unless you're going to study at the university where it is mandatory. remember, this test ain't for free. is a few hundred €'s.

i considered taking this test quite a bit seeing as germans love certificates, but i let my german pals talk me out of it, saying my german was good enough. i still make mistakes, but i worked for a german company for 4 years as consultant and had customer contact and no one ever complained. i'd say don't bother.

it's 263 Euro. I just rang them and asked. That's as an external student - no Vorbereitung, no Kurs. Nothing. Just the exam.

It's not as high as degree level. It says:


meaning - it's the highest level you can attain apart from a degree (or a translator's qualification)

Chanda,
i know the Germans love to have official pieces of paper. But in your case, I really wouldn't bother! If your German is near-native standard anyway - the moment you open your mouth it's obvious. Anyway if you're looking for a job in business your biggest advantage over the rest of the candidates is your native English.

Just make sure your German application/letters are 100% spot-on. Possibly try phoning them first and stun them with your German before sending an application.

Yes I can read. It says it is the highest qualification that can be attained outside of a university degree / professional interpreter training. Knowing the level of German attained with an arts degree in German and having read what is examined in this exam, I would say that the level of German required in this exam is higher.

I agree, Mysteryman. I think after reading the requirements that this qualification has a higher standard than the average (foreign) BA in German.

Thanks Koala! I definitely need to polish my German first though. After spending 2 years studying in Germany I was completely fluent. But, after having to go back to the US for the last year of my degree, I've lost a lot of it. I know it will only take a little time til it is back; but, having graduated summa cum laude, it's really annoying/embarrassing being reluctant to open my mouth for fear of sounding like an idiot! lol

I guess since I don't have anything to do for the next 4 months I might as well make good use of the free time. Not sure what that "good use" is just yet, though.

I did the KDS beofre coming to Germany - it's the standard they require you to have to go to uni here. I enquired about the GDS at the same time and was told that if I didn't want to be a translator, then I would never need a GDS - the KDS would always suffice.

congrats.


I rang and asked them. What I wrote is not me guessing. It's what I got told

Congrats.


I don't give a toss what they told you. I know personally what level of the language an arts degree with German brings you and I know what they examine in this exam. I still think the level required for this exam is higher and it still says 'qualification' in the official blurb for the exam and not 'level', which is what you posted. Or to be more exact 'Highest qualificatory certification'.

I agree with everyone else here that said "don't bother". I've been working here over 5 years and have yet it run into a foreigner that said they needed this kind of a qualification. They'll judge you mainly on your oral communication skills. Proof of some formal German training will be enough to convince them that you can write German too. Your written German only gets better by practicing on the job anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

Heh. I dont know about that. There is a huge difference between learning german in a formal educational environment, and just picking it up on the job.

When you learn it in a formal educational environment, you get your mistakes corrected.
When you just use german in day to day life, you dont. So everytime you make a mistake, and people accept and understand what you mean anyway, it simply reinforces that mistake.

It all depends on how good you want to be. If you really want to speak proper correct german, significant time in formal courses with assesment is required. Personally, I am happy to just get my meaning across, mistakes just sound cute to chicks anyway.

Chanda,
you've already got your BA in German which means you've got the piece of paper that the Germans are so fond of! I did the same thing, did a placement here, went back to the real world to finish my degree and then came back. You loose your language if you're not using it constantly - but it's all there in back-up memory. It'll probably take you between three and six months before you're back up to speed again.

I'm a translator and have been for the last six years (my sixth anniversary in Munich is today!) and I haven't done the GDS nor do I intend to!

I suppose it depends on the job. If you're just writing e-mails, memos, etc. then yeah you're right, you'll never learn it correctly. A lot of the stuff I have to write ends up in presentations or formal documents though so I always get colleagues to proofread it for me. Was a humbling experience at the beginning when my work got completely rewritten but it has gotten much better since (or my colleagues have gotten lazier ). Works both ways too because my colleagues sometimes have to write things in English so then it's my turn. It's fair, but I hate correcting Germans' written English!

So do you want a badge?


So what exactly is it that you know? And how is it relevant a comparison with the standard of german acquired in a degree? I'd like to know what criteria you're using and exactly what degree are we talking about.

Frau Dehnert (089 55190330) at the Goethe Institute who deals with the GDS claims you can't compare the two.

According to the Council of Europe there are 6 levels A1 to C2. Das Großes Deutsches Sprachdiplom is level C2 according to Frau Dehnert. Here's some info.

I don't see how the description of an attained language competency there is "higher" than the level of German one can attain in a degree (presumably a B.A.)

I've got a BSc Hons German/French/ International Business (Aston), have Insitute of Linguists accreditation, been here 6 years, 4 years with Herr Indoors, speak German all day every day at work plus writing official docs in German then speak more German at home. Don't even have a sat dish or cable so all of our telly is in German as well.
I don't think that I'd pass the GDS.
Doesn't mean that I do not speak good German, I just use too much dialect and slang. And I am lazy. And I run all my words into one long garble (mind you I do that with English too). I might have passed it when I graduated but I doubt it. My degree was much more practical and I did virtually no literature in it.
To tell the truth, I do not think that Herr Indoors would pass the GDS either...
Katrina

karambos,

Sorry, but I'm in agreement with MysteryMan on this one.

I did a BA in German and judging from the criteria on the website it strikes me that the skills required to pass the GDA are, as I said earlier, as high if not higher than I needed for my degree.

Hmm, I probably shouldn't ask given Katrina,karambos and koala are posting here, but does Grosses Deutshes Sprachdiplom mean "Big German speaking diploma"?

As unwelcome as my opinions are here:

I agree you cant compare the 2. I never studied german at uni, but I did stage 1 and a little bit of stage 2 chinese, and im aware of whats involved in a degree language course.

A 3 year bachelors degree would give you an overview basically. Theres just too little focus on practical use, and more focus on the history of the language, and literature. Someone with a degree who wants to be a translator would need not only more study beyond a degree, but significant practical experience as well.

This GDS thing seems to be much more intensive, practically focused, for people who are better than native speakers, and whos job requires full understanding of every little nuance. Such as a translator.

Sprachdiploma - Language Diploma not speaking

And like Katrina,
I don't think I'd pass the GDS either.

Listen chappie, you are the one who adopted this agressive tone in the first place. OK?

Yes, as I stated earlier in the thread, I mean an arts degree in German. I just happen to know a few people who have one (and have had a few in German courses with me over the years). I shared a house with a guy in final year in a german arts degree and know the stuff he was reading, and have looked (with interest) at some of the examination papers.

I don't know why I am bothering really, I don't give a flying one way or the other. Just expressed my opinion and you jumped in with your size 12s.


You didn't say what level a degree is.

To my knowledge, yes. Yes it does.

As an aside, I did french at university, and most of the people in my class would not have survived more than 5 minutes in a purely French speaking environment.

@ MM

'ang on

I didn't adopt any such aggressive tone. You were the one you started it with your "Yes, I can read" comment like I was treating you like a fool. (which I don'T think you are). Elfenstar said it cost some money and I was just following it up. I rang and enquired about it because I'm insterested in doing it myself as I know one or two people who have it themselves and their German is worse than mine.

Peace, oder?

BTW I don't know what level a degree is. I'd have to ask.

One could argue that flatly slapping down what one person has posted is a little rude, but no worries. Just treading water til my holidays (in Tuscany, in a 5 start villa that we are getting for 30c a night and has it's own swimming pool, which should be nice) so don't mind me.

Grosses Deutsches Sprachdiplom = Great (or better, Advanced) German Language Diploma

The test does look quite intimidating. PhD orals in the US are not nearly so comprehensive. This takes more than a day. For an examination of that magnitude, EUR 253 seems quite reasonable.

What strikes me is that it tests exhaustively not only the candidate's command of German but also his/her ability to extemporize a lecture and compose a coherent written paper. Every college grad is supposed to be able to do these things in the mother tongue, but what percentage does it capably? The foreign language poses a considerably higher hurdle. If you get handed a topic to hold forth upon that you don't know anything about, or don't believe in, you're screwed.

You would have to have had extensive formal academic training in German to pass the grammar/syntax parts.

I taught German at Stanford and elsewhere a long time ago (as a grad student), and I doubt if many freshly-baked BAs would get past this one. You don't get to this level in three or four years unless you had significant exposure to the language before your freshman year, preferably in conversation with native speakers.

One would have to ask oneself: what's to be gained by passing it?

so who's doing the flat slapping?

Have a nice time in Tuscany

Ah one of those 'last word' types

best way to prepare (and see if you can be arsed) is to do a course at the VHS (mvhs.de). you need to have done the KDS or take an einstüfungs test. about comparison with a degree, can you speak, read, write... (almost) like a native speaker when you graduate? if you pass this exam you can. advantages of doing it - you can forget all about learning german, there's (next to) nothing left to learn and even if you get rusty you can flash the certificate. second, it qualifies you teach german as a foreign language abroad. to have a chance you need a lot of writing practice and enjoy reading german literature. books available at hueber.de. like the KDS if you fail the May exam, you can retake in November and can still use the same books (Lekture) the book list changes every year.

ps parnell is a fat knacker

You're just jealous of my folds of fleshly beauty...

Thanks for all of your opinions everyone. I appreciate hearing all of your views on the subject. It's interesting to read the varied opinions. I'll let you know if I decide to take or not...but I haven't decided just yet.

Chanda