Munich security conference - 3/4.Feb.2006

A little more advance warning for you lot this time: another demonstration is being planned in Munich on 3rd and 4th February 2006 against the NATO conference being held in Munich in the Bayerischer Hof (3rd-5th Feb).

From this website: no-nato.de...

Friday, 3rd Feb, 5pm -- Kundgebung Marienplatz.

6pm cycling demonstration from Marienplatz to Prinzregentenplatz.
7.30pm Anti-capitalist evening walk Prinzregentenplatz.

Saturday, 4th February, 12pm --International Demonstration Lenbachplatz.

Convergence Center, Thalkirchenerstrasse 106.

Open Thurs 02.Feb - Sun 05.Feb.2006.

You can mail these guys for posters and things: stadtplenum@no-nato.de

that just sounds so twee and suburban and sweet, doesn't it?
let's all go for a quick anti-capitalist stroll round the block...

It did yes, but maybe there's a better translation?

not really - it's pretty funny in the German original, too
"Antikapitalistischer Abendspaziergang"
bless

Are the anti-capitalism marches here just like back home?

OK; I'll just come out and say it - does it mean I can get away with loads of smash and grab raids on shops, and generally vandalise the city centre?

since when was it a NATO-KRIEGSKONFERENZ? ffs. If it wasnt for NATO we'd be in a lot more shit than i would like to think about. and the future role of nato with a peace keeping role outside of its traditional and geopolitical area is a welcome change to the limp and pathetic attempts by the un to police the peace. this is just a bunch of middle class mummies boys and dadies girls holding posters and shouting rude words and thinking life is cool a an anarchist and waiting for the monthly payment to come in from their parents. fucking hippies.

You thinkin' about that chocolate shop round the corner from Odeonsplatz mucker?

Where's the PRO NATO march going to held? The one where we thank NATO for ending the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims in 1995, the campaign on behalf of ethnic Albanians in 1998, plus a general policy of deterrence which first safeguarded Europe from a resurgent Germany and then kept central and western Europe free from the specter of communism for the latter half of the 20th century.

Now THAT is a march I'd like to attend.

Ah! Smell the naivety on the fresh born son. MMMMM-mmmmm!

@ Sin

OK, here's a stance you'll probably find more agreeable:


If only it worked in some Multinational Corporations to the conspiracy... Oh! And oil, gotta work in oil. And Freemasons.

The topic of this thread should be merged as a subtopic of the "why people are so dumb" thread IMO.

@DW
You big dummy. Those things you mentioned just don't fit in with the "America is bad", "America is against Islam" themes...now stop mentioning stupid things like that you naive Yank you.

Oh! Good answer DW. Good answer. Throw the bastard off the plot type answer. You're learnin' my son.

Two words:

Operation

Gladio

Third 'bonus' word:

Search

where's the anti-demo demo?...waste of time all of it!

What's your problem with Gladio, which by the way is actually the Italian "version" of Stay Behind? It seems perfectly logical to me that NATO at the time had some sort of a contingency plan in case of a Soviet invasion...

@DW - well I guess you could go down to the Bayerischer Hof with a banner saying 'Go NATO!'... not something I'd advise though

JW - My father's younger brother, was the one who found Calvi swingin'. Like I said before. We're from The River.

Are you justifying Gladio?

Yeah, I'm gonna avoid that actually . I may thank my neighbor who works for NATO, however.

DW. I will go on a pro-NATO march. I will spray my SUV white and all the anti-NATO "beardies" will think we are in the UN looking for some "peace to keep"

OK same procedure as every year - glad I won't be in Munich at the weekend.

I've looked at the link provided and see a lot off anti everything raving but I have one question:

What is the alternative model?

Can you clarify the question garlof?

I was backing you until that bit DW. Love to say more on that topic but not openly.

Don't. THEY are listening.

Just reading the website linked in the 1st post, these guys are all over the place and are seemingly against just about everything from capitalism to the EU to NATO to Iraq to racism. It's hard to make any sense out of it. They should have shortened the name of the rally to "Protesting is fun..so let's get it on!".

It's ironic that a bunch of Germans are protesting against NATO. Maybe they would prefer to just go live in Russia. Without NATO, that might have happened. Talk about biting the hand that feeds. Nevertheless, the website doesn't talk much about NATO anyway. Bunch of nutters.

ok looking at the web site I saw a lot of statements condemning NATO – what I’m asking is:

we disband NATO (assuming this is the goal of the demo) what do we do then ? I see no alternative plan, or do we just disband NATO and see what happens?

they'd better not interfere with my getting to the whisky festival, that's all i can say.

Without reading the article (or even the first page of comments on this thread, I can tell you the following thriteen facts about the planned protest:

1) There will be many badly hand-painted anti-NATO signs.
2) Those holding these signs don't realise that the entirety of Western Europe has now gone without a war for 60 years and counting.
3) There will be many badly hand-painted anti-US signs.
4) Those holding them will be wearing Levi's and Wrangler jeans and will have just come from a McDonald's.
5) There will be many badly hand-painted anti-globalisations signs.
6) Those holding them will be furiously SMSing each other on their Nokias and eating Langanese/Good Humour ice cream.
7) There will be a few anti-fur protestors. With badly hand-painted signs.
8) They will be wearing leather jackets and shoes.
9) But mostly there will be a lot of college-age kids who, having nothing serious to protest, will protest aganist NATO (and globalisation and the US and anything else they can think of) because that lets them protest against something and surely that means they're doing something. It'll also piss off Mutti and Vati.
10) There will be drum circles and weird "tribal dancing" (though not as much "dancing" as in summer).
11) There will be hooligans.
12) There will be photographers.
13) The hooligans will not disappoint the photographers. Violence will break out. Photos will be taken. Kiddies will whinge.

woof.

@ BadDoggie

Classic! I may just go for the show.

I haven't condemned NATO in a single post. I agree that there should be an alternative organisation set up to replace it. But, I have some base level questions before we can proceed with any futher discussion:

• What was the original purpose of NATO?
• Has it remained true to its original purpose?
• Is it still relevant?
• Why has NATO actively promoted state terrorism?
• Who exactly does NATO protect and serve?

And before we get the rabid dogs barkin' "Lefty! Pinko!". I am NOT a leftist. I sincerely believe that the world is going to have to deal with a new type of political persuasion in the years to come. One far more challenging to the New(?) World Order than they probably realise: The Moralists. If the New(?) World Order is to survive, it needs to start eliminating the intelligentsia rapidly, or it is ultimately doomed. It is just a matter of time.

[*]What was the original purpose of NATO?
A US-European defence alliance. An attack or invasion by the Soviet Uniion on or into into any member would be considered an Act of War against all.

[*]Has it remained true to its original purpose?
Did the Soviet Union ever attack a NATO member?

[*]Is it still relevant?
That's the big question. Many in the EU see it as a hindrance to further EU integration.

[*]Why has NATO actively promoted state terrorism?
Troll.

[*]Who exactly does NATO protect and serve?
Member states, except that the bag, bad wolf -- erm, bear -- NATO was protecting 'em frmo no longer exists. Many of the bear's former republics are now NATO members and the bear itself is a "partner".

Oh, and Sin's a freedom-hating commie leftist pinko.

woof.

Why bother? You've got all that right here on TT!
(Minus the visuals mind you)

@sin I wasn’t referring to you – I was referring to the web site in the 1st post (are you the author )

To answer your questions:

[*]What was the original purpose of NATO?
Article V of the NATO Treaty, states: “… to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area�

[*]Has it remained true to its original purpose?
•Too be honest I can’t say if it has or it hasn’t - but I doubt it

[*]Is it still relevant?
•Off course NATO is no longer relevant with the change in the balance of power, and as with many of the organisations it has taken on a life of its own.

[*]Why has NATO actively promoted state terrorism?
•To answer in a very flippant way “Because it could�. Also consider this isn’t the state and by extension NATO the body that “has a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force� during the cold war the “threat� (real or imaginary) of communism provided this legitimacy – I am not supporting or justifying what NATO did but that was the situation.

[*]Who exactly does NATO protect and serve?
•NATO = North Atalantic Treaty Organisation I think that says enough it doesn’t care about anyone else – that’s not it’s remit or?

Errrr. North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

BD - I'd bite you in the arse, only I know you'd love it.

NATO ain't relevant anymore. Is it? The ref to state terrorism is no troll. It is incredibly well documented. Fuck, even that bastion of bullshit Wiki has it down as the bad guy. Now be a good dog, roll over and lay down.

Meiow

How about a cite, you commie?

woof.

I went to one a couple of years ago and it was all very tame. No fighting, no rioting, no taunting the police. Not even a dropped bottle.

The police looked quite bored.

* Present: NATO operates the military peacekeeping mission in Kosovo as part of the 18,000 personnel KFOR force.

Seems that they've been up to good things as of late and as such have retained relevance.

EDIT: for C&P error - my bad.

Sorry, he was ousted in October 2000 (and not by Nato, either).

DW - There is more than just black or white mate. Those kind of comments are plain daft. The situation is far too complicated and intricate... and I freely admit, I don't have all the answers. But, I've got a fuck load more questions than I know what to do with.

As for demonstrating against NATO: For what purpose? The will of a majority of electors in each country is the only way to disband the cardboard champion. However, the most disgusting thing about these 'Security' conferences being held here in Munich is the wasted costs to the general public of policing the whole sorry debaclé.

What pisses me off is they pick the 4th Feb. Selfish gits. Don't they know there is rugby on that day? And there they will be marching around Munich, probably buggering up the public transport whilst I am trying to get to the pub to watch England play.

Bastards.

Very inconsiderate indeed

Well... It depends on your point-of-view and what you attribute the organization. Gladio is a convenient bogeyman for the Italian left which they blame for everything from terrorist attacks in the 60s and 70s to neofascist conspiracies to overthrow the government. All this has yet to be proven concretely and conveniently omits the fact that the USSR saw Italy as a prime potential satellite state in the West well into the 1960s, which is the reason that Gladio, and Stay Behind in other countries, were created in the first place.

OT: by the way, Italy is a paradise for conspiracy theorists - they love this kind of stuff.


I don't see why you should feel afraid or uncomfortable speaking about Freemasonry?...

And sometimes they are up to no good.


Source: Amnesty International UK, Report, May 2004

You're going to have to raise the standard of your game to be taking seriously Ketchup.
Blindly quoting throwaway lines for the back of a mid 1980s cornflakes packet just ain't gonna it I'm afraid!

better red than dead...

oh i remember that, how i miss the days of cruise missiles, pershings and ss20s. the cold war was more fun than now.

@Ketchup
If you want the recipe to raising yourself in MonkTown's esteem just start with a vitriolic rampage against the Church and any politician to the right of Mao. Add some flavor by wishing them a slow and painful death. Wrap it all up with a hysterical Marxist revolutionary diatribe, serve.

Don't forget to organize a TT event to celebrate in case they actually die.

Bit of a cliche there JW, I help organise other TT events and believe it or not we talk about stuff other than politics and get this - I've mates who aren't as lefty as I am. I'm even mates with some Conservative voters!

@ Gideon, better to die on your feet than live on your knees!

The point being that these people seem to despise everything about the West but yet have no desire to go live anywhere else (hence the "Russia" comment). At the end of the day, they want to be here; they want their lattes; they want their 6 weeks vacation, they want their gay and lesbian scene and they want their equal rights but they refuse to criticize places where NONE of that is possible. Instead they criticise the West. Far be it from us to try to spread the idea that people should have basic human rights. It's a hell of lot easier to criticise ourselves and do absolutely nothing, than to try to do something about problems in the world.

Bollocks, a mate of mine helps organise similar marches.
He's VERY critical of Iran, Saddam's Iraq, North Korea...

Don't believe the hype!

Second time in 2 days I find myself agreeing with gideon.

Agreeing with gideon? Jesus, this cannot be happening. And on a point like this, no less.

So one guy you know is critical of those countries and tries to organize marches. I'd like to see what the ratio is of anti-globalisation/anti-War/anti-WTO/anti-NATO marches to anti-North Korea marches.

On TT, instead of threads about how to stop the killing of political prisoners in China we get threads about how the West should just change their opinion of Hamas and give them a chance even before they change their "let's blow up buses of Israelis" ways. Friggin frustrating it is.