Germany's next top model

I wonder whether that's really what a 16-year-old thinks. Of course you're right and it's shocking. But there must be something else like a craving for something or obsessive vanity or peer pressure or media utopia. The psychology of a model - why not write a book.

She hasnt sold herself more like an agent has done most the work of getting her jobs here and there! She has done well but she has loads a money and should concentrate on her kids like Claudia Schiffer has done and taken a backseat to modelling and cut down on the work. She is unlikely to be ever short is she!.She can do some work but her kids should see more of there mother as when she isnt hosting some WC soccer show or some Stupid model show encouraging girls to be stupid she is still modelling! Likely why she needs atleast 2 nannies

Why Dumb? Simple promoting girls to be wafer thin and living a dangerous lifestyle is very clever is it? She and the model world promote this image of being near perfect yet most women will never get anywhere near this "Ideal" picture.Why doesnt she promote things like morals (2 Kids to 2 different men in 2 years hardly sets a fine example!), qualities people want to find in others like loyal, honest, trustworthy instead of this fake world she is promoting.

Refuse to watch pathetic shows like this and would rather read or learn something from the Internet. I also dont like people who arent real and promote these skin deep qualitys and really doesnt give a crap about the girls or others.Did you understand that? is that clear enough for you knusper?

Maybe Klum was trying what Steve Davies (the snooker player) used to do. He was often asked to play exhibition matches against young hopefuls that were about 13 to 15 years old. He said that he viewed them as potential, future, rivals so he used to "absolutely annihilate" them just in case they had any "ideas"!!

Models are no different than anyone else you get paid to do a job and at the end of the day you go home. Obsessive vanity? That's rediculous! Just because a girl is attractive and gets paid to have her picture taken makes her obsessively vain? What about actors and actresses, what about club waitresses, what about televisions hosts and newscasters. All are hired because of how they look and therefore they have to make sure they maintain a level of attractiveness. That makes them obsessive and vain?

Garbage. We should celebrate other peoples success not ridicule it.

EDIT: Further, what makes any of you think that because one is attractive they have to be dumb, dishonest or untrustworthy? Those stereotypes are extremely insulting and most often completely wrong. My closest friend in Munich is a model, she has a degree in finance and is one of the nicest, honest, trustworthy and loyal friends I have ever had. She's modeling now because the money is good and she will be able to save a small nest egg for the future when she starts a career and family.

Sky News said the show might get axed now.

Too early in the morning for personal attacks. I simply asked you to clarify why you thought she was dumb. Again, you haven't proven to me that she's dumb. I won't go so far to say that she is immoral (would you call all women who have children from multiple fathers immoral? I wouldn't...), but she certainly has different values that I personally do.

This thread reminds me of a the controversy caused by the "RAF news" when I was in the RAF in the late 80's early 90's. It was a really boring internal paper that suddenly did a "WRAF of the week" (Womens Royal Air Force) and it contained a photo of a "pretty" WRAF with a short biography. The women went mad and complained (though there were no similar complaints when the following weeks edition contained a picture and biography of a RAF fireman!!)

One letter in the paper stated that being "pretty and slim does not mean that you are stupid and cannot be a valuable addition to society", it went on to say that the majority of women that wrote in to complain "probably looked liked the back end of a bus and had a chip on their shoulder". The letter was written by a female officer (Squadron Leader)!!!

Personally, I think to tell anyone that they are too fat for any job (unless it has medical implications) is dangerous and cruel.

Where was the Personal Attack in Dally M's post? I didn't see it. He said he dosen't like people that are not real- he never mentioned your name, but if you took that personally.

Obviously this isn't the worst personal attack I've ever experienced, but it is a bit annoying to be "spoken" to like that. Especially since I had only asked for a clarification.

thanks Moonboot, good article.

yeah, I read Moonboot's link as well
what kind of a dress did Jordan have on, eh?
flippin eck, she's not shy is she?

Unless I missed something she specifically said the girl wasn't too fat at all but that she should tone up.

I do think they should promote plus sized models here like they do in North America. Seeing these models or watching Marilyn Monroe in Some Like it Hot could do a lot to promote positive body image in young women.

yep, thats what i heard too... and she was a bit bit "loose".
Anyway, why should any girl think they can just walk on a catwalk and be a model. Just like any job,. to be at the top of their game they have to work at it. In this case the work is staying in shape and being the perfect clotheshorse, for that u have to be slim and firm and the right shape, if ur not those things, u have to make urself those things or give up...

The thing that gets me is not whether models want to make money, nor whether they are dumb, but ...the young age of the girls on that show. That's what the thread is about! Who makes these girls do it? It takes a lot of inner persuasion to undress in front of the telly.

What are you on? This was a comment passed at people like Heide Klum who have no sense of the real world! If you think that was a personal attack you are very misguided. I would like to know how you can view it as such.Just wondered if you understand English as I said Somebody who promotes girls to be dangerously thin as dumb no matter who it is and would rather Heidi Klum and people like her instilled and promoted things like personality, charity work etc ( Not saying she doesnt but just never heard of her doing that much for charity) and not pull people to pieces which seems to be the norm on TV today. That to me is a dumb stupid person picking faults with people and not treating often people with respect especially in show like this.

Theres is too much Egotistical stuff on TV and looking to humilate often or put another person down. If people like that all well and good but I dont! Have no problems with women or blokes having kids to different people but in my opinion it is not very good to have 2 kids to 2 different fathers in 2 years. She also doesnt seem to spend much time at home looking after the kids when in my opinion she should be doing as these are important years for a child. A mother should concentrate mainly on her kids then anything else second

I agree about your stuff that stressing the utmost importance of looks and body size on TV can be harmful to young girls (and boys) and I'm sure it is the case that almost all parents (rightly) prioritise their kids over anything else (Heidi Klum included I'm sure), but you're on shaky ground saying that mothers should effectively stay at home with their kids at the expense of everything else (we had a thread about this last week in fact I think). Perhaps Seal should spend more time at home with the nipper

nah, kid would be living day-to-day with a man who looks like a car accident... (was it a car accident?) and would therefore develop a strange perception of reality and therefore end up being a freak...

Calm down...

Anyway, I don't like her much either, but since I'm a bit pedantic, I'd like to point out that she's done charity work for the American Red Cross, Elizabeth Glazer Pediatric AIDS Foundation and the Austrian Post AG will now release a Heidi-Klum-stamp. The proceeds will go to an Austrian AIDS charity.
(Google opens a whole new dimension...)

Rather than slating her you should probably address your concerns to the numerous TV producing companies involved in such 'top quality' shows.

No offense, mate, but since this forum doesn't do voice transmits, your posts come across as quite rude...

I really don't see how Dally M's post is rude! Just as I commented early, that he was also accused of a a personal attack that I didn't see either.
Everyone is allowed their opinions on this forum and just cuz he has a different view, doens't mean he is wrong or rude.

I don't mean to accuse him of being rude, just saying that as plain text his comments and his style of post can be considered rude.
Anyway, critising fellow forum users is not my aim, it was just a little comment on the side.
Mea culpa...

Not just you Saz; I agree. Anyway, away from taking sides, this show's not -that- much different to those Pap Idol shows where they held auditions for people wanting to become singers in a band. They were extremely harsh to people, often reducing them to tears (I admit it; I watched an episode).
I would prefer someone tell me that I'm too fat/skinny/wrong shape physically rather than criticise my singing voice. To me, the voice is an ornament of the soul, and it would be such a personal blow if someone said 'you can't sing, you're crap'. I think one of the points of the audition shows was to show how tough the show business world can be and what you have to be prepared for.
The same goes for the world of modelling. Even if you're already an established model it doesn't mean you'll get picked for everything, as each designer has their own favourite look, be it elven or luscious.
Anyway, in a rambling mood.

Fail to see how thats rude! Direct yes rude no and I wont apoligize as there is no need to thankyou. Not saying she shouldnt do any work but she seems more interested in working than taking care of her kids. The thread is mainly about Heidi Klum tho the TV producers are just as bad but its her name at front and likely she has some say in how its produced. I just think she feels cause she has a pretty face and all everybody loves her-well having a pretty face and body isnt everything in life in my book.

I feel its sad on todays society that many TV shows think its great to scrutinize people and make them feel small and why I dont watch too much TV. OK the people are maybe stupid for entering but whos to say somebody (Friend or family) has pushed them onto the show without ever thinking the damage the comments etc coming from the likes of Klum and other people may make the person feel insecure or useless.

Oh FFS!! I already pointed out the part of the previous post that I found personally annoying. And this one too "what are you on". Is that supposed to be funny? Sure, pot, kettle, I know how it goes. But all I have done this whole time is ask you to clarify yourself. I still do not think that Heidi Klum is dumb. Her IQ is obviously above average. Again, she does not share my values. However, you obviously do not share my values as well, since you say
This is a very close-minded opinion - of course kids are important, and you probably shouldn't have them if you don't plan to spend time with them and provide them with love and caring to help them get a good start on life. However, it is completely acceptable for a mother to have a career and for that to be very important. A woman does not stop being herself just because she's a mother. For that matter, the father should also put in the same amount of time and energy. For the record, it certainly seems like Seal is putting in a lot of energy into both kids (although you can't trust tabloids).

Finally, I find it funny that you are criticizing TV for putting people down, because that is exactly what you are doing. Also, your attitude doesn't seem terribly respectful, another criticism that you have of the show.

Generally I don't like so called casting shows, e.g. Top Model, Deutschland sucht den Superstar, but since these shows have been broadcast for while, you'd think people would know what they're letting themselves into:
- They will be 'exposed' on national telly.
- Their talents will be critised (and in the case of this particular show the girls 'only' need to look good and not sing and dance as well...).
Obviously, there's fundamentally something wrong with telling girls whose BMI is close to being undernourished that they are fat, but haute couture does unfortunately not cater for the average European woman.

Try taking a chill pill as you seem to take everything so personally! jeez I dont like her or her attitude in many areas of life and just because myself or others dont agree with her or you doesnt mean we are wrong or right its called opinion.Jeez not what everybody puts in a post is an attack at you unless you feel it is

Hopefully she wont end up like the attached picture. I saw Kate Moss a few years back in Marlow with scary spice. Ms Spice looked very nice but KM looked awful, a genuine bag of bones although not as bad as the poor woman on the picture.

It's time for a group hug me thinks.

I agree - it's almost painful and embarrassing watching these kinds of shows where the person auditioning is just picked to bits and reduced to tears on camera. However it doesn't matter what I like unfortunately! Big Brother and those Jamba adverts are still around even if I never watch them!

DallyM, I know you're a sports fan so I will try to put my point in perspective.

What if they had a Germany's Next Top Athlete competition. They have 20 athletes sign up but can only take 10 for the team. The guys who's skills aren't as tuned or are in bad shape don't make the team. How do you explain to them why they haven't made the team? I assume you'd be honest and there wouldn't be anything rude or wrong about saying someone wasn't fast enough or strong enough or even wasn't in good enough shape to play sports professionaly. I don't see this as any different.

You give them the news gently and encourage them to keep playing and to offer the experience they have had to the amateur club they came from. Its never easy you are telling somebody they wont make the grade but you have to remember they are people and sometimes harsh words can not just stop them from playing but make them feel worthless which is what you certainly dont want to happen. Encourage them by saying kindly and respectfully if need be in private well this area is why you didnt make it. You deal with people whether they are good enough or not with respect and dignity which TV shows will never be like as its not so entertaining-Says more about Society that these type of shows are popular.

not what they said to me. They just said "OG, you are a fat bastard and you'll never make the grade as decent touch player or even a prop-forward in rugby union, for that matter, so why don't you do the world a favour and go an live in Bradford".

Yeah I've never been coddled like that by any coach either. Probably why I hated gym class and now refuse to play sports, it was murder on my self esteem.

ER- you should have been on the teams I coached then- I treated everyone fairly, and the girls were a team, not individuals. Was heart warming the last game to see the best player (she was damn good) stop on a shot, and pass the puck to one of the other girls on the team, as the other girl hadn't had a goal all year. It was so sweet, we could have won the game, but since I taught teamwork and fairness all year, the girls didn't care (okay the were 5-8 year olds), they wanted every girl on the team to have a goal.

thats great for people that arent good, but shouldnt we be teaching girls to actually not be scared to offend other girls and be the best? 5-8 years sure thats the time to learn that stuff,socialization, teamwork and the like.. but as they get to be teens i think real self esteem comes from not worying about what girl cliques and peer pressure takes away from the sport and that translates into real life off the field.I have coached highly talented young athletes for years, and i find that they usually end up frustrated and bored with having to be cute and play nice instead of just playing well.

Can only go by personal experience but thats what happened at Halifax RLFC and know that happens at other professional Rugby League clubs. Thats not to say all Professional clubs in Rugby League or other sports are so. But if you read the book "Dont die with the music in You" by Brisbane Broncos and former Australian Rugby League coach Wayne Bennett, shows how he treats each player whether good enough or not. Brilliant read whether you are a Rugby League fan or not and isnt just about Rugby League neither but life in general family wise and work wise.

In training teach people to be mentally tough and to get the best out of them agree and put them through hell as well but if they arent going to make it you should look to still make them feel valued and that they can inspire others rather than just "sorry you aint good enough" attitude. A trainer should have more than just being a good trainer but have the mean streak in training but still have the personal touch when saying to somebody they arent up to the level required without making them feel worthless or small.

thats not the way te world is, its the same if ur going up for a job or smthg, people arent jsut gonna coddle u, make u the ceo to be nice, u have to be the best, sure treat people with respect and but why nance around the issue, i tell them why they arent good enough and what they can do to improve to be a starter or whatever and usually they do it, work hard and get results!

So, now it's time to tear apart the second episode, where they kicked a girl out for being too skinny, as far as I could gather.

No they didn't I actually watched this episode and was pleasantly surprised (inc omparison to the pap idol shjows). heidi klum wa sa lot ncier than the other judges who judge dthe singers.

the girl they kicked out who was v skinny was because seh was a crap poser.

I didn't read the whole thread, got other things to do. But this is off ARD Videotext: Doctors, nutritionists and psychiatrists have criticized the show harshly, saying it is glamourizing an unhealthy ideal and putting girls under pressure to become stick-insects.

Sarabyrd-this show isnt doing that single-handedly, the whole fashion industry desingers who prefer to choose skinny m,odels than 'normal sizes' are doing it. ok so this show is supporting that ideal, but dont -just- demonise it.

Its not often what you say but how you say it.You tell me I am not good enough and I would tell you to fuck off basically and wouldnt mind if you was a bloke giving you a good smack but if you said well here is WHY you arent good enough and suggest on areas which could be improved then I would take it better and look to work on them areas in my next job or maybe look at another career to take up.

Also many players hoping to become professionals in a sportsteam its usually their dream and ambition while normally with secular work its not usually what somebody has strong desires to do as a job. Many blokes especially have dreams of making it big and for you to destroy them dreams is hard to do sometimes as these kids often have no other options lined up (Talking about U18s in sporting teams). You dont want them to give the sport up completely as that wouldnt be what you want but its putting it in a way and manner where they dont feel so bad and despite not making the grade at Pro Level at this particular club still feel they are a good player and can still offer the amateur club where they came from experience and hopefully not get to downhearted

I was only passing on some information as to how the show is regarded by some members of society. Personally, I'm not bothered watching it because I can't stand Heidi Klum.

Exactly what was with the porno photos from Michaela on tonight's show? I did not quite understand.

now then,
i just watched this show for the first time, and being a big fan of the US one...what a fucking load of crap this was...boring, dry, slow, no drama, and what's up with the cheesy, cheap apartment the poor girls live in...screams "ikea"..at least tyra kept her ladies in a nice pad...
funny thing is, i have never watched a single reality show beginning-end in my life, but then about 2 years ago my fabulously gay friend and his boyfriend got me to see the US tyra banks show...and i got sooo sucked in..i loved it, it was the guiltiet of pleasures...drama, fashion, catty as hell judges..janice dickenson is a crazy, plastic fantastic bitch..it was worth watching it..

this tonight was awful, no entertainment value what so ever, moral values aside, take it for what it is, trashy reality show..leave it to germans to screw that up...so bland...not to mention that heidi klum is annyoing as hell...good for her i guess, she is a brand now, has enough money to retire and take care of her family..i supposed i am a bit late in the discussion, but as far as what dally m said, on the contrary heidi has all the time to take care of her family, filming a show for two weeks or and ad for 2 days out of the year, and the rest of the time is hers - jesus i only wish every mom had that kind of choice (and money)!!
and while the girls were very pretty (i would have to say on average much prettier than the US contestants), they were so snotty and stuck up, and well..bland..i though the US girls and the show in general had more personality..
seal and heidi making out..no thanks

I absolutely disagree...today was pure trash, but the entertaining kind.

Micaela was "Miss Eastern Germany" - which is apparently a "title" given out at some porno trade fair. She posed topless for something or other, and didn't disclose this in her application to "Germany's Next Top Model". However, they didn't throw her out. Why? Who knows. Maybe to have the opportunity to show the other girls making catty remarks about it.

The weirdest thing was when Celine (the Austrian) left. Why did she leave? Because she didn't want to share a room with 5 girls, as far as I could tell. No one will ever know the truth...

i guess may be tonite was pure trash and entertainment, but in the US top model show this would have been just a regular day...i guess i need to stop comparing..
as far as the girl who posed topless and they did not kick her off, to me it seemd like that whole cheesy twist of "what's in the past is in the past" ...like "we'll give her another chance in life"..barf...and for Celine leaving, well, that's what i meant by german chicks beeing stuck up, cold and snotty "oh no, i have to share a flat with 6-7 other girls, oh no, this isn't like my parent's nice little haus" get over it, it's not like they were housed in barracks, or that heidi or naomi or any top model got a mansion handed out when they first started out. glad she left. i just thought they'd sort of figure out what they are getting into...
but on the whole it just seems like a cheaper, poorly edited version of the US show...ok time to go get a life (i am sick thought, that's my excuse for this )

Well I'd had every intention of boycotting this show. More trashy tv as others have opined. But I ended up watching it because my daughter was watching it and wanted a back-rub. Before you know it, I'm routing for some of the girls more than others and subconciously also trying out how well I can swing my hips like a very gay black man. Fun enough. I'd give it a 5, maybe. It definitely got me into a necessary stupor zone.

Oh, and Michaela did pornos and was allowed to stay because Heidi thought she could be made for something better and should have the opportunity. Cool, that. Celine couldn't be brought to share one bathroom with ten girls. Spoiled, I guess. I spent 5 years when I couldn't even take a dump by myself when my kids were little. Privacy is a luxury.

umm.. I think you just answered you own question, oder?
they are in a lovely apartment compared to what most beginner models are housed in - you shouldn't expect them to be in a posh set-up.

Anyhoo, I don't think Celine left because of the living situation... I think she just decided that it wasn't for her. Which is fine. Rather have a girl leave if she is not into it than take away another girl's place who was deeply invested.

she went to get a quick buck from the papers while the show was on...probably a rival network paid her off too!

was probably all the work of some lurking new "agent" also after a quick buck...

I don't know why I suddenly have a strange urge to defend Heidi Klum's show...but I certainly think it's trashy and entertaining enough. The US doesn't have a monopoly on that.

Also, Celine is Austrian, not German. And I don't know why she *really* left, obviously, but that was the reason she gave Heidi - living in a house with 10 girls and 1 bathroom or something.