Letters from the Gebühreneinzugszentrale (GEZ)

1. Throw GEZ letter away. Even if you do decide to Pay GEZ they will continue to send you letters forever (Is all automated and they don't care)
2. Never answer the door, if you are not expecting people.
3. If you do open your door make sure your TV Vol. is off and Deff. Don't let them in.

If you get cornered, they will threaten, lie and trick you to reveal info. Just close the door on them and don't say anything.
They DO NOT, have the right to enter your place, Unless they are escorted by the Police and have a court Order (This is very rare).

Other than that, just pretend they don't exist.

Following on from what DK said, most flats have an intercom system, a spy hole on the door and the door has a chain. USE THEM!

Agreed, i never answer the door unless i'm expecting someone cos if they know me well enough to visit me, they also know my tel number.

Gez letters are pure bin fodder in my experience.

There's people in my WG who work nights and double shifts and stuff so we often disconnect the doorbell even.
You wanna come round? Ring one of us up or text.

I can confirm that. We pay the GEZ for our flat and I pay separately for my business. I still get letters from them, so I fill out the bit "if you are already paying, please enter your number on the form" and send them back as requested.

Thats just one of the ways they keep checking on you. I'd say stop paying them your hard earned $$ but seeing as your also have a business GEZ too, that could be a prob.
You can keep them outta your home, but a public place like an office or resturant is another issue.

They can also look in your car window and see a radio.

I have an idea - register, then a few weeks later, deregister and tell them you've sold your telly. Then re-register a few weeks later, with only a radio. Than deregister again. Continue doing that for a few months and see what they do.

I'd try it, but my German girlfriend would probably freak...

... which needs to be registered separately if you use your car for business trips (or if you are self-employed).

And don't forget the "neuartige Rundfunkgeräte" - ie. such as mobile phones (especially with built-in radio receivers!) and computers/laptops.

That is why you should NOT discuss stuff with random starangers on your doorstep!

Would you like a free copy of this TV Guide?
We are doing market research, how often do you listen to the radio on your mobile phone?
etc etc

KER-CHING!

Just like those who don't pay their bus tickets, those who watch TV without paying the GEZ are essentially gettting a free ride at the expense of the honest ones. Pay up. Is it going to kill you?

We have been told by our relocation agency that you are required by law to pay GEZ technically for each TV and radio you own. It does not matter if you hear or watch German channels. What matters is if you can receive the signal.

Interestingly, the GEZ visited my home. New to Munich - about a month. Apparently, the GEZ has become more organized and they get a list from the government of all newly registered expats with address and name. Our relocation agent said that if they did come around it would usually take months but it seems like they are getting better organized and are on top of things.

From reading forum posts, I had heard about GEZ and knew I did not have to let them into our house. Unfortunately, the GEZ official came to our home on the day T-Com was coming. I had to go drop off my girls at preschool and we waited 3 weeks for this T-COM appointment. I left my mom behind and told her to buzz in anyone that arrives. She does not speak German, like me, and I assumed that the T-COM engineer would only speak German so I told my mom - does not matter what they say - just let them in. I want a phone and internet service.

I come home and my mom says that someone from the TV department came and looked at our TV. She said it was an older man and he was very polite. She explained to him in English that the TV did not work here since it was American and only took NTSC signal. She asked if she had to sign anything or pay anything and he said no. So now I'm waiting to see if I get a notice in the mail before I go ahead and pay the tax. I'm on the camp of paying the tax. I'm not happy about paying but if it's the law.

Time to change relocation agents then and get one that knows the rules. That's a pile of cow poo. A private household pays for maximum one TV and one radio (or computer). Hearing, watching or receiving signals has nothing to do with it. What matter is you OWN the relevant equipment, even if it does not work. The GEZ have been getting lists of new registrants for almost 20 years. It just happened they were in your area just after you arrived.

As someone who does pay, I still get fed up with the way they work. I pay as a private person and I pay for my business, and still they send me the "do you have a television?" letters. It costs me my time to fill out the form each time to say "yes, and here are my details AGAIN". Perhaps I should bill them for that time

The other thing is how businesses, particularly self-employed/freelancers are treated. As long as I was a normal employee, I didn't have to register the radio in my private car. Once I was self-employed, even part-time self-employed, I had to start paying an extra fee for the car radio because I used the car for business purposes (I visit customers with it, but even taking a parcel to the post office because you sold something on ebay counts apparently).

It's still the same car, the same radio, and I probably listen to it just as much if not less. But now I have to pay extra for it.

Similarly, since computers/laptops now count - anyone business with a computer/laptop has to pay the GEZ for it (OK, there are special rules when it is combined with radios/TVs etc.) regardless of whether there is a TV/Radio card in it. Since almost every business has a computer (and by law has to do most of their tax returns electronically), they pay extra although most of these will never be used for receiving the content that they are paying for.

If I remember correctly, you even have to pay when you don't actually use the radio/TV because you _could_ use it. ie. if it's in the basement because you've decided not to have a TV in your flat anymore, but don't want to sell it - then you are still liable to pay.

This business of you _could_ use it seems to be one of the reasonings with computers. If they can use the internet, then you _could_ read the ARD/ZDF websites or watch their news streams. One of my favourite comments in the Heise forum was the suggestion that these channels offer a telephone dial-up service for their output. That way, everyone with a phone would be liable because they _could_ dial the number.

Hmm... anyone remember "dial-a-disc"?

Perhaps her mother lives in the same flat and has her own income? Therefore she would have to pay for her own (car) radio/TV...?

Perhaps CDMexpat is a freelancer and has a radio on her desk or uses a PC at home for her work?

I agree though, the agency should go into this sort of detail and not just say "register them all".

Yorkshire - I don't need to change relocation agency. They actually did inform that they register one TV and 1 radio. They usually wait a month till after you arrive / move to Munich. It just happen to be that we got a GEZ visit less than a month after we moved (before we registered).

Now with regard to owning equipment versus if it takes a signal, I really don't know. The way it was explained to me was that if you owned equipment that received german signals then you had to pay the tax. But I'm sure I will find out soon if it matters wheather you own equipment or only if it takes the signal when i get my bill in the mail.

So don't make statements like this:

Yorkshire - Sorry. Next time, I will write "I think it does not matter". I'm just trying to use the forum to help others out like it has helped me. I find the information you find in posts useful. Sometimes it is not correct. Sometimes it is partially correct. Sometimes it is completely correct. But I don't think members need to get almost like upset about posts. How about just pointing out in a reply that what ever someone said is not correct or paritally correct, etc, in a friendly manner.

I think that KyJeLy, the Fox affiliate from Bumfuk Iowa is the best so I refuse to pay GEZ in Germany.

My husband got a letter today which is a Zwangvollstreckungssache( for 202 euros) from a lawyer on behalf of GEZ. WE have been here 2 years never paid any GEZ fees, answered their letters, nor had a personal visit.

What should we do now to fight this? Has anyone else had the same letter and successfully fought them off?

I had the idea from this thread that they had no legal enforcement rights...however I think this probably isn´t true and we should pay. Yes, we do have a TV.

You don't have a chance. I tried convincing them that my US lawyer boss only watches CNN via cable but they say, as stated somewhere above, that he could watch German channels and therefore has to pay.
Pay up and curse the German mentality.

Thanks Sara, I thought as much...

But if she never told them she had a telly and they never came to check, then how can they charge her anything at all?

Sounds like a bluff... Hide your telly, in the basement or at a friend house and tell them that if they think you own a TV or Radio, to come do a look around.
When they find nothing, Send them a bill for your time and and their harassment.

If the GEZ has an enforcable title (Vollstreckungsbescheid) there´s nothing much you can do ...

How can they have that if they have never been to the persons house and verified if they have any equipment
that is chargeable? Even if the person did, all they have to do to temp. store it somewhere and get GEZ over to look around
and confirm they have no chargeable equip. the the OP can tell GEZ to go Fck themselves..

@OP
Just make sure that before GEZ comes to look around you get rid/hide all your TV's/Radios and PC's..

I keep wondering if they will sort it out to track people who have internet W-LAN connections, now that they (apparently) can charge people who have computers.

I did have someone in my new apartment not long after I moved in who was kinda dodgy (long story, don't ask) and I wondered after the fact if it was GEZ sniffer. But that was 3 months ago and I've gotten no letter from them, so I am guess it was just a weird, dodgy person (long story, don't ask.)

One fact is important: The GEZ person does NOT have the rights to enter your flat/house. For this it requires a search warrant.
However these people know how to intimidate people.

Problem is nowadays: You'll have to pay GEZ just for your PC with Internet connection, even for a multi-media capable cell phone, for the radio in your car. So most likely you'll have to pay.
I still would like to know how they got the info that you own TV and/or PC.

Not only do they need a warrant, but they also need to bring the coppers, as GEZ doesn't have police rights.
They prob. just guessed.. Or the OP left one of their windows open at night and they saw the glow from the TV/PC.
GEZ doesn't actually run/own snooping trucks anymore, not for 10-15 years.

I think they have been doing a mass mailing. I have received a letter as well, not quite the same one, but mine said that if I don't register with them, I will get a 1000 euro fine plus all the monthly fees from the date I moved into my new apartment... now how would they know when or if I bought a tv/computer/radio in my new flat?

In my old apartment I never received anything, but I moved into my new flat about three months ago, and I have received four or five letters from them already.

EDIT: Renia, have you checked if this lawyer actually exists? In Holland (so I guess over here as well) it happens a lot that these kind of things are sent out by themselves and they put a fake lawyer name on the letter just to scare you off.

You own a TV then pay the GEZ, those are the bloody rules, you like it or not.

Renio wrote:

"My husband got a letter today which is a Zwangvollstreckungssache( for 202 euros) from a lawyer on behalf of GEZ. WE have been here 2 years never paid any GEZ fees, answered their letters, nor had a personal visit.

What should we do now to fight this? Has anyone else had the same letter and successfully fought them off?"

If you have a TV, how exactly are you going to fight it?

"Yes, we've got a TV but I just don't fancy paying a fee that the law /rule says I have to"?

If you use a service that requires payment and then don't respond to the suppliers letters or requests for request, then a lawyer's letter is often what you (as debtor) get next. No surprise. Normal.

Not if the GEZ has an executable title. Renia, can you send me a copy? Contact details via PM.

Then it goes back on my other comment.. Hide the GEZ billable items until they look around and see there wasting there time on you.

It doesn't in the least matter if they have electronic media standing around or not once the title is executable. It is valid for 30 years even if they never owned a radio, tv or pc.

OK, But before a judge would grant GEZ such an order, don't they have to prove the to the courts that the people have said equipment?
What would happen if GEZ went thru all this legal hoopla, convinced a judge that these people deff. had equip. only to find out that they have none?
Do the accused have any recourse to sue the crap outta GEZ for such a false accusation?

From what has been posted, it looks like GEZ never made a house call, and never sent the many letters it usually does to people before such
actions are taken.

No, the customer has to contest the court order. In a court order/writ procedure the claimant has to prove absolutely diddly until the debtor contests the claim.

I´ve got to say that this is bloody stupid . You´ve been watching T.V. for over two years without paying the licence fee , which is a crime . However , when the GEZ request that you start paying the said fee , you ask people to give you suggestions for ways to continue breaking the law . Just what exactly makes you exempt from paying a small fee that millions of others pay . Bloody arrogant . Not American by any chance are you ?

No, I´m not American, so take your biased racist twaddle elsewhere.

This thread and many others have explored the legality of GEZ charging their fees, I was also exploring my options. I don´t watch German TV (we only watch Dvds and Videos) and would prefer not to support an extortionistic organisation for something I don´t use.

I own a TV, don´t watch German programming at all, for clarification.

Your pc counts as well. Even our office has to pay.

Ok, good so this the confirmation I am looking for I guess, even though the threads on this topic seem to imply you can just keep ignoring it and not let people into the house etc.

As if Americans have cornered the market on arrogance. Take a look in the mirror.

You can mostly ignore it, but it seems you are beyond that stage now Renia.
I'd pay.

Thats funny, as my office of over 10k computers doesn't have to pay...

GEZ is all about having the gear and a "Possibility" you "might" watch Germany TV, Vidoes, Movies or listen to The Radio.
I, like many other people in Germany have knives in my kitchen. Having them doesn't mean I'm going to use them to
go out and kill somebody, nor do the cops come and raid my house just because I have them. It is only a crime if I actually
hurt somebody (Or threaten them). In which case only then do the police get involved and I get hauled into jail/court.

GEZ is a private org. that extorts money from people and for which the Govt. turns a blind eye. Making people pay a fee
for something they don't use to access the content for which the $ goes is that.. Extortion. Just because you have the gear
to receive German TV doesn't mean your going to.

With the switch to digital tv many sets can't receive a valid tv signal without the need of an ext. antenna or a cable box.
If neither of these devices are connected to a TV, then your not going to get German TV, so why pay the GEZ fee. You
can even get the cable plugs in your house capped so they can't be used. .Last I heard GEZ will still try to charge you
even though you no longer have the capability to receive said signals.

@DK, do Germans ever try and fight this, or is it just the expats?

The fact that the money ends up with the ARD et al does not mean that not consuming ARD broadcasting means you can get out of it.

Some Germans try and avoid it of course and there ae currently negotiations going on about the structure and funding of broadcasting and the private broadcasters are out to knife the ARD as much as possible. But I have never heard so much bitching and whining about it outside of Toytown. And it does seem to be Americans who whine and moan the most on the issue as the concept of public funding for certain boadcasters is accepted in other English speaking countries.

That's because we are used to the 'unique way the BBC is funded'. Which was all very well when it was a monopoly.

The BBC or ARD etc no longer have a monopoly but I'm not convinced that we can leave broadcasting to the likes or Messrs Murdoch und Berlusconi.

Nevertheless, your ownership of one-way devices for receiving signals made it sensible to charge you for receipt of said signals before these devices were no longer single-purpose. But technology changed a lot faster than the laws. Your entitlement rant aside, the law is still "If it can receive a German signal, you must pay GEZ." That's it. No one has challenged them on the Intarwebs connection crap yet because it's auto-included in the TV/radio license. However I know that sooner or later they're coming after me, one of the few people who really doesn't have a TV or radio (no car, either). And I will put up a Quixotic (and possibly Pyrrhic) fight. The intarwebs enable me to receive what is broadcast but unlike their argument about TVs and radios, not only is my computer and intarwebs connection used for non-broadcast-receiving activities, it is quite possible to log the connections to see if I am indeed visiting the ARD site and/or watching their shows. I am not and I have a machine logging every damned connection and event between my router and DSL line.


Fair fucks to them. How can I help? I don't dislike the ARD, ZDF and "third channels" but the way the license money financing is structured, the beneficiaries aren't limited in any way, so they keep expanding their activities, necessarily requiring an ever-increasing revenue stream which comes from license fee increases, commercials, and (as even Stefan Raab has exposed) illegal product placement and other advertising schemes during hours when commercials are legally forbidden.

woof.

They are limited by the Staatsvertrag bezween themselves and the 16 states.
Right now services are being cut (usually the fringe audience ones in favour of white German mainstream) and they are attempting to expand into the digital world to give the punter more bang for the buck. It's not very transparent I'll grant you though.