Letters from the Gebühreneinzugszentrale (GEZ)

It looks like something to do with the number of TVs, radios etc. in the flat.

See GEZ

Throw it away. Don't let them into your apartment.

Edit: Technically you're required to pay GEZ- but they are a bunch of thugs and I refuse to pay 17 Euros a month to sponsor another retarded Volksmusik show on Zdf.

GEZ fletch, they want you to pay your TV licence

Unless you don't have a TV, then you only have to pay the radio (and seriously, no one is going to believe you don't have a radio alarmclock somewhere in the house).
Though now they can charge for computers - digital TV can be received on computers now (colleague of mine translated the "operating guide").
I am surprised people put up with this (all over Europe) and there is no grass roots "FU" campaign against it... As far as I am concerned, the government doesn't really need to know what access to information I have, or what religion I am. etc.
(slinking back off to work now)

but i have a sky sat and never watch the german tv or listen to the radio in the house.

just as a question what about the cars that have radios and tv functions?

really againist this whole concept of a licence to have a tv. where in the hell does that come from anyway?

you have the ability to receive state sponsored tv and radio - therefore you have to license it. that is the justification. Only mass protest would ever make them stop charging.

You have to pay for car radios too. You have to pay for everything-whether you watch German TV or listen to German radio or not. The thing is, they can't PROVE you have a tv or radio. So don't let them into your house. And if someone comes around asking if you want to buy a tv guide, say no. It might be a trick. I've heard of them doing that before. If they come to your door and threaten you with fines, either pretend you speak no German, or tell them you'd be happy to let them in when they have a Durchsuchungsbefehl (search warrant.) Fucking losers. I hate the GEZ.

technicly it is niether state sponsered nor controlled.

only losers don't pay GEZ!

@ Gideon - technically not state controlled, but isn't GEZ a state / national governmental entity? (not sure, just asking) and the GEZ funds only go to "public" stations such as ARD, ZDF, BR, HR ...

You good, outstanding citizen, you.

now you know why I like GEZ

/BR

NO GEZ is independant of state control, same as FSK-jugendschutzt. control of broadcasting is on a länder-level here in germany, not a bundes-level. public stations are publicly funded, not state owned. its all historical due to the fact last time the germans had polititians running controling and censoring the media the country went to the dogs.

thanks Gideon, kind of gives the GEZ less credibility though, dunnit?

I guess SWM lacks some credibility too then as a provider of water and electricity?

@BR

But you only pay to SWM if you actually use their water and electricity. Big difference.

No DDBug becasue the "power" simply comes from a pooling of state governments authorites rather than the federal government's alone.

----------------------

@ MB. You don't pay to watch or listen to public broadcasting. You pay to own a TV (and radio).

The fact that the monies collected is used to fund public broadcasting is legally sperate and on the ocassions when anti licence payers have tried in court to avoid paying becasue they never watch public TV they have landed on their arses. In both Germany and the UK where there is an almost identical system.

The main danger to publicly funded broadcasting under the Germany / UK / Ireland too IIRC model is that commercial boradcasters are seeking through the EU to limit the activities of public broadcasters where they effect their profits.

no, you'll find the fines the are able to give just as credible as those from the police.
It really is the only way to finance public broadcasting and try as much as possible to remain political as independant as possible. you might not like it, but dont forget, your living in someone elses country and its there tradition. and the fact that the zdf uses the mones for those terrible music shows doesnt mean a thing - they are some of the most watched shows in germany (and some of the richest popstars too). i know for americans its hard to understand.

Monkstown - that was MajorBummer there not DDbug. DDBug was just asking a question about GEZ and the government and was not complaining about SWM.

Incidentally, we're on yellowstrom, but I know enough to know that it is all pooled and comes from the same source. And we do pay our radio GEZ, and as soon as I unpack this digital receiver for the PC box, we will register for a TV license. But in the meantime we are very happy without a tv.

no GEZ is independant of the state governments. its a mess really and technology is erroding the boundries and boarders.

and no gideon, it is not hard for americans to understand. Please don't confuse that! MB is not american either.

I mean how the state government's "control" the Öff-Recht, broadcasting agencies which in turn pool their resources for licence collection to the GEZ organisation.

Similar structure to the way Lotto works IIRC.

I have no telly anyway, idiots latern. But I havent paid for my radio!

I know there is no "official" state control of the public stations - did I say otherwise? geez

though when I unpack this digital converter box for the tv we might as well get a proper tv for the fee. I do miss documentaries on BR. (not about BR )

Not really. If every household had to pay GEZ, then the organisation would remain politically independent and on top of that, the fees could be reduced, because you wouldn't have to employ people for door to door checks or send out questionnaires on whether people have TV's - just an annual bill.

It's not user pays anyway, so why not acknowledge that and charge everyone?

zdf do have some...'interesting' music shows - but IMO they and ARD (and BR) do quite a lot of decent documentaries such as the Guido Knopp (sp?) stuff on zdf (+ I like their sport coverage), so I'm happy to pay for that and the relative lack of adverts

I'm not paying them anything. I have a radio in my house but don't use it, who listens to anything but mp3 now anyway? And I download that so I am a real criminal. Although..I PAY to be a criminal, the software I use cost a yearly fee.

As far as TV goes, be have the box but no crappy Germany "sendungen" in other words, we don't have an antenne or cable. We just use the TV for our DVD viewing.

sorry didnt mean to be condescending.

that would be a tax then, and it gets all complicated.

I don't have one radio in my house

Sure it would. But it would be simpler, not more complicated. No need to send out letters telling people to register their TV's, no more legislation of what does or does not constitute a reciever/TV, no more people checking door to door, no more trying to define what is a radio for personal use or one for business use. Just an annual bill to every household in Germany. Far more simple.

So again I only have a problem with the fact that I do not watch the programming and if I did I would have no problem to pay the bill. I assume that this crazy ass shit would also apply if I only had a TV and DVD player where I would only watch DVD's.

Again it is not that I am saying that it is right or wrong to charge for this but more that I do not agree with it when I never use the service. We have the same thing in the states as far as public television (PBS) but they get the largest chuck of their funding through yearly fund raising drives on TV and it seems to work out pretty well. Those that watch that channel typcally donate money to support it.

http://www.cpb.org/aboutpb/faq/pays.html

www.pbs.org

@ Hazza, I've read though that ABC has become a lot more timid now it is funded by taxation in Australia and not a licence fee...

@ Fletch, I'd rather see a publicly funded PBS in the US taking on the likes of Fox...

@ MoiLV

are you sure about that. if you think about it you mind find a radio (mp3 player with radio tuner, car with radio, phone with radio tuner, etc)

@ MT

26.1% $609,210,000
Membership contributions

seems to work to me that they can raise over half a billion by only voluntary membership

I'm not suggesting that the GEZ gets dismantled completely and revenue collection and distribution be up to the government. If the GEZ could charge every household, regardless of whether they have a TV or not, then the admin costs would go down and everyone would get away with paying less - or the quality of programming could improve with the extra funding.

no because the political ramifications! in principle i agree with you, but the legality of charging someone who does not own a set for something they never will use would go straight to the verfassungsgericht. and thats the crux. if you own a set, you can not prove that you nor guests in your house will NEVER use the public broadcast services.

@Monkstown
That was exactly my point or why I have a problem with them and not with the SWM. I neither own a radio nor a TV. I have computers, a newspaper subscription and internet access to get the latest news immediately. You don't pay to have a water tap and a power socket in your flat. You pay only when you start using the water and electricity. I am against paying for something I do not use, I would rather donate my money to charity than support some private organisation paying people to go spying on others and wasting money on their stupid ads. Just seeing their ads all over turns me off big-style. I remember that one ad with the breakdancing kids and the one showing them his GEZ badge. Always got to see it in the cinema. Must have cost them a fortune.

In fact people who claim "never" to consume public broadcasting more often than not do.

Even I I have a cheeky listen to Bayern 2 radio in the afternoons.
It's kind of like BBC Radio 4.

I'm sure you are right about the tap but not so sure about the power socket. Isn't there a 'network' fee? Maybe I'm mixing up Sweden and Germany - I don't have an itemised bill in front of me.

There were 38,957,100 households in Germany in 2000 (Source here)

If each household in Germany had to pay just €20 a year, then the money raised would be €779,142,000.

There would be no more arguments on user pays and complaining about having to pay despite not watching public stations/not having the radio connected, etc. and there would be no more people cheating the system by withholding payment. Why wouldn't this system be implemented??

I don't go to school - and I have no children. What if I never have children who go to school in Germany? Can I expect a refund from the German government for never using this service??

Of course not.

I agree with you Hazza that including it in normal taxes would be a better way to go. I don't see that as being a valid reason not to pay the current system though.

and true indeed, if people are going to opt out of GEZ because they don't watch the 'state' channels, then I'll have my money back that pays for the schools and MVV thanks

ahh - but the children are your future (insert sarcastic smiley) - same with the pension - I will not see nearly as much as I have already paid into, much less will pay into before I retire, much less the matching contributions from my employer.

@BR
do you agree that if you have a dish and NEVER watch german television that you should not have to pay for it?

The solution is to privatise all state tv stations, and make them advertiser (or subscriber) funded. Noone should be forced to purchase a non-essential service like that. Television is the last thing people should be compelled to pay for.

I remember filling out the last form I got, said exactly how many tvs and radios I had, but I never got a bill.

I do. Because a lot of money I'm paying is getting wasted through beauracracy, advertisements and all sorts of other shit that it wouldn't be by making this a household tax.

If the GEZ came forward tomorrow and said that they were reducing GEZ to €30 a year and that they would now collect the money from every household, then anyone paying the charge already would obviously be pleased. I think most households pay it anyway, so I can't see it being too unpopular.

Anyway, just about everyone not paying should still be paying. How many people here NEVER watch TV or listen to the radio? And once charges are introduced for owning a computer, then I don't see many people being exempt anyway.

I agree that it would seem reasonable not to have to pay for it if you never watch German telly. However, I don't think its correct to unilaterally opt out of the system just because you don't like it much. As I mentioned above, I should therefore also receive a state refund for any of my taxes that go to schools or the MVV in theory

Fuck that - I'm not retiring here.

true. In fact, similar to the MVV and the cost for Schwarzfahrer posters as well as the costs of fining people for not buying tickets on MVV. Maybe there should just be a flat local tax that covers MVV and the service should be free to use, seriously

(does that make me a communist? )