Racism and discrimination in Munich

Attention Toytown: "Rational" is now a bad word, just like "logic"! All rational and logical discourse should be terminated. From now on all shall spew their beliefs about whatever pops into their heads and everyone else must accept such as The Real Truth.
How about I continue expose the fallacies and mind-blowing over-sensitivities of those claiming racism instead? It's more amusing. I'm at the office and shooting fish in a barrel means I can also get some work done.

And you don't seem very adept at reading comprehension. Go back to where I wrote about South-East-motherfucknig-Dee-Cee. "Chocolate City" and Murder Capital of the US for more than 20 years. I also lived on McMicken by Liberty. Go google last year's riots in Cincinnati and see exactly where they took place.

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck... I call it as I see it and I've seen nothing to counter what I've sad beyond "Well I feel like they're acting racist toward me" while ignoring what everyone else has said about Germans in general and specifically those who use public transportation.

Oooohh!!! Time for the thought police! Double-plus-good!

How about you imagine being a bus driver and yet another fuckwit got on your bus and didn't show you the ticket after supposedly stamping it. Now you have to get up and walk all the way to the back to check it because an MVG inspector might be on watching you to make sure you're actualy checking tickets like you're supposed to do even though you and your colleagues hate having to be ticket checkers on top of avoiding the idiots racing around the street.

Oh wait, sorry. That was a rational explanation, something no longer allowed. Let me try again:

OMG!!!11! YUOR SO RITE!!! THEIR AL RACEISTS HEAR IN MYOONICK!!1!shiftone THE BUS DRIVER D00D DID HIS JOB ADN IS the TOATLE RACEIST!11!1!! YUO RED HIS MIND!! HE PROBABLY HAS A NATZI FLAG AT HOME TWO!!!11!1 OMGFOADLOL!!!1

Was that better?

[size=1]Edit: Attention Crawlie: You northernist!

woof.

A friend of mine was on the receiving end of some very real racism last weekend. After leaving a club, he walked to a bus stop where two men asked him if he was Jewish (he looks pretty Jewish, and he responded yes, because he is) and they then threatened him and used words that I won't deign to repeat. One of the men mentioned his pride in having a grandfather who was an SS officer at Auschwitz. They became aggressive and my friend was seriously scared and ended up running back to the club and calling a taxi. I was pretty shocked to hear the things they had said, and my friend was obviously very distraught (I was still at the club so I got to hear the story right after it happened).

EDIT: To be complete, I should say that my friend has lived in Munich for 25 years and nothing like this has ever happened to him before.

I didn't say racism doesn't exist. I called out the "examples" of it given here up to now which most seem to agree were normal, daily occurrences blown fully out of proportion and labelled racist when they were in fact no such thing. Saan's story is different, but it's still hardly a common occurrence.

woof.

BD, I'm not trying to argue with you--I've only skimmed this thread. I just thought this story was relevant to the topic and so I posted it. And obviously it's not common or my friend would have probably experienced it more than once in 25 years.

This sentence really made me chuckle. I love that so many TT'ers are creative and articulate.
Even when we disagree, and even if you get burned by someone's post or burn on someone else's yourself, you have to at least appreciate the quality of the banter when you see it.

Yeah, I agree with Doggie, I wouldn't call that common at all. In fact, I've never heard of anything like that. What a horrible experience. I don't know what I would have done. Scary, that.

Well, I do try and maintain a glimmer of humour. Don't, however, accuse any of the liberal, conspiracy theorising, tin-foil hat wearing TTers of being daft. They will give you a trillion websites to prove the Queen of England is a Lizard, Winston Churchill used to wear ladies underwear and that they know a friend of a mate that lives next door the wife a person that knows whatever it is for a fact (they are just waiting to hear!)

With reference to the German of habit of staring, they have another habit of speeding up (subtley) with their supermarket trolleys as they approach the tills. Try breaking out into a full sprint, getting there first, leaping up and down shouting (I have won, I have won)!!! Then look at them at the next till, 100% guarantee that they will look directly ahead and will not look at you at all. (Be warned, your partner will probably walk off and leave you there jumping up and down, my wife did but came back later!!)

No, I don't agree with that. So many are caucasians are posting, whether they "know", "want to know" or "think they know" - that's the thing. It's a tought topic. Never thought anyone would ever even reply. I don't believe anyone can change the situation and we definitley will never all agree on it, but at least we're aware of what some people feel like, even if we see it completely differently.

I must admit, since initially posting this, I have learned a lot from what I read so far - even when I disagreed...Well, with the exception of the posts of bad doggie.
Though, he's not racist, he is a dog.

Very true! There are some provocative folks, some very stubborn people and there's lots that are just tough as nails and are not afraid to speak up on anything, but 'daft' - nevah.

then there are also the TTers who have an experience with a German(s) then go on to generalise about the whole German nation being like that (like they know every single German person in Germany)

And then there are also the Germans who have an experience with a people of any nation then go on to generalise about the whole nation being like that (like they know every single person of that nation).

Oder nicht?

Oder doch ?

oh well that makes it okay then...

nice one BD! I reckon every MVV bus should have the bumper sticker 'I'm not racist, I hate everybody'.

MVV is quite clever. They write everything in German except the laws regarding fines.

Of course not. They both exist. As canary would say: You're making a generalization about how people generally generalize and that generally, it's inaccurate.

I'm not arguing with that, but you seem to be very sensitive about this topic, and it's inexplicable why, since this doesn't appear, at least in what you believe, to exist as discrimination to you in the first place.

Os, there's nothing to defend here. It's just a discussion about racism and discrimination in Munich, why it might occur, and if anyone has experienced it. It's not a cut on Germans. Why should it be?

Ok there's a lot of crap in this topic.

Can we get to business? What is it that WhoaSnap wants?

I've been around and aboot in a few places where 6ft tall white people are not the norm, I'll bloody post on this thread.


Bit of a crap insult that innit. Reisfresser. Call a krout a brotfresser and they'll be utterly confused.
We call the French frogs though I suppose, for eating frog legs. Is that racist? I dunno.

What you wanna do is change your mindset - somebody sees that you are of an asian origin, and assumes therefore that you eat lots of rice. Some Germans have seen that I speak English, and assumed that therefore I am American and am clearly culpable of the invasion of Iraq. (I find that more offensive than being called a rice-eater personally )
Anyhoo, you wanna change your mindset so that you don't see a random comment as an insult, but rather as an excellent excuse to punch somebody. Brilliant. Vent your anger, get a work out at the same time, and a good story for the boys down the pub. Actually, nick their wallet after you smack 'em, and get a round of beers in too. Great stuff.

you silly moo! my joking rant about the Germans was to do with Canaryman's off-topic German jibe about supermarket trolley dashing. was an off topic reply to Canaryman's off topic post.

@ DR

some nationalities get called what they eat a lot of...the Brits are Roastbeef, the French are frogs, the Germans are Krauts, and the Americans are fat.

What do you want to get to business about?

I want nothing, really, samy. Just wanted to know what people out there think. A bit of venting and curiosity of other people's experiences and friendly debate on my part, that's all. We all live here and have to go through stuff. Just wanted to know what people out there were dealing with and if it was similiar to me. And perhaps a bit of enlightenment, and a touch of TT humor. Some of it, yes. Some of it, no. That's all.
The thing I noticed and didn't expect was that people got really upset over this topic, and for the most part, I think it's okay that people get upset about it, because at least they notice something.
We all have our ignorances.

Yeah. Silly moo, I am, admitedly.
Hey, by the way, was that you with the silver iPod staring at me on the U3 this morning around 8:15?
But at least I'm not fat...well, not 'fat' fat.

am just teasing you!
gah wish I had an ipod! I'm still in Sony Walkman cassette mode!

I wish I was "phat". Well, actually, I'd probably just like to know what the hell it means. A drumbeat can be fat, and a coffee can be skinny. What a brave new world we live in.

As a white girl with mostly black family (its a long story) I can say I'm probably a lot more sensitive to this sort of thing... and MUNICH is quite racist.. because I am white, I often hear ocomments about blacks, jews, asians etc by germans thinking I wont be offended... And if a person here is getting stared at... It is cause they look "different". All you have to do is walk out side without make up and you'll see what I mean.

Don Rinna, Dogg, you sound like a thug, brotha. No punching or 5-finger discounts for me.
Sticks and stones. Not to sound so American/Jerry Springer, but 'They just jealous, cuz' of all the sweet junk in my trunk, Jerry!'
No, but I don't mind Reisfresser that much, because I do like rice. (the Kochbeutel kind, of course.)
But Schlitzauge, that one I hate. I suppose it would be worse if my eyes were really like that, but since they're not, I'm not too bothered, but I still hate it.

WALKMAN!?! Dang!

That must really suck hearing stuff you know is directed at your family, but they think, just because you're white, that you automatically agree with that type of racism. Sickening. How do you deal?

As for going outside without makeup, when I don't wear make up and have my glasses on, half my friends say I look like a 15-year-old Asian school girl. I once went to my Hausartz like that, dressed in a "classy" Puma track suit, and the receptionist told me that I was not allowed to visit the doctor unaccompanied by a parent. She gasped when I told her my actual age.

Off topic.. but whoasnap how can you complain that you look too young!! everyone guesses Im about 7 years older than i am (need to invest in some wrinkle cream i guess)

I suppose I shouldn't complain, but I also don't want to be mistaken for a teenager, either. My poor boyfriend already has to suffer the fact that some people think he ordered me out of a catalog. Add that I look like a teenager thing to that, and he may never take me out to dinner again.
Anti-wrinkle cream - girl - shoot, that stuff don't work!

Anyway, back on the topic, how do you deal? Must drive you nuts, with what you wrote.

In total agreement with Don Riina's post earlierand many more examples besides :-


Seems like we are back to you looking cute, young etc ? I find it hard to understand how someone as vain as yourself is so perturbed by someone staring at you, is that not what you are looking for ?

Aah WhoaSnap.

Common they are a harmless bunch. I love if someone stares at me, I stare back at them. Depends who stares...

My German is poor, so let them say what they wish to. And if I do understand something there are quite a few abuses in hindi, quite handy. Tell me if you want to learn a few.

Actually this feeling of racism is more in the "non-whites" mind and so they (actually we) feel it more. Throw it out and never bother about it.

Now could someone tell me how to ungroup mails in a gmail account. I write mails with the subject hi and I write several of them adn this gmail clubs everything together!!

Because I'm kidding, bluedave.
A person such as myself should truly never be vain.
Would be an ebarassingly large overestimation of myself.

I don't mind people staring at me. In fact, I can't, because I live here.
But I don't like being discriminated against. But, then again, race or not, who does?

I read your post on your ex-wife being black and how people treated you a bit differently. That must have been interesting. Did anyone react to you differently when you were in your homeland?

To be honest, I never know what to do.. If its really horrible I tend to go off.. But sometimes (to my own disgust) I try and ignore it (if its at work, or somewhere that might make things too uncomfortable).. The thing is that most people who make racist 'jokes' dont actually consider themselves racist.. I’ve lost friends because I just couldn’t look at them anymore after they made a comment that to them wasn’t even rude.. its really hard to know where to draw the line. With one good Austrian friend (who I know doesn’t consider herself a racist, and has friends from other races/countries) we were in her car and a friend of hers told a REALLY nasty joke about blacks in german.. and my friend was laughing her ass off, when I asked for the translation I was horrified and started screaming at the both of them… In Ireland and England I heard the word chinky (going out for a ‘chinky’ (Chinese food) all the time, which back home would (rightfully) get you an ass kicking.. But do you tell off every person who says it?

Well, unfortunately for me, my German is pretty good, so I hear far more than I want to, sometimes. Particularly when I'm in a Dirndl, but that's to be expected, so you're actually right about it being harmless. It's just annoying when it's not just staring. Being a chic, I've been followed, I've had a guy tug on my arm or get in my face, or pull up a chair and interrupt me when I was talking to someone in a bar. That's more than just staring, and, again, it's a combination of the way I look and the color I am, so it's what I have to work with, since I choose to live here and want to live in Munich.

As for the Hindi - PM them to me - would love to learn some of those.


Yeah, I see you're point. There are definitely degrees of oversensitivity there, for sure.


You're in the wrong topic, amigo.

Yeah, I can totally see that. I mean, when I notice people that they've said something that's actually pretty offensive, like when my boss called our Japanese clients 'Schlitzaugen' behind their backs, it's a complicated situation, because that's just really rude, but he's my boss, and I can't exactly tell him off. And when I told this story to another colleague, he just laughed it off and said, "Well, he didn't mean you, so you shouldn't care about it." At the end of the day, you have to just let it go, but there are days when I wish I could choke people with my thoughts like Darth Vader.

Who is this whoasnap, and what she/he doing in Munich?

Man, I often ask myself the same question...

I think I know who he/she is.

No idea what he/she is doing in Munich, though, except for being really cheeky.
He/she does get stared at, though, but it's mainly because he/she is so LOUD.
Anyone speaking that loudly in public will get stared at.

By the way, I believe you owe me a beer, WhoaSnap. And since I recently won €20 in a bet on the Husker Rose Bowl game (*gloating*) that I still have to pick up, I might see you at Outland sometime this week.

Always presuming that Potbelly gives you a passout Laureen

SHUT UP, DAVE!!! You're just jealous!

@Bluedave...If she's been a good girl, I may let her out for a Guiness or 2...

Anastasi Beaverhaus. The cry of "next please" from a freshly opened till instigates an immediate trolley dash, regardless of safety, who is next, age, race, height, shape etc, when in Germany.
On many occasions, in the UK, the till operator has to shout at least twice for the "next customer" as we are all too busy saying "no, after you, your trolley has less in" or no "after you, you look in a hurry", or "no after you as you like you are about to die of old age" etc.

I have seen the German trolley dash performed in Munich, Dresden, Koblenz, somewhere near the Black Forest and even the German side of my family (not including my German wife) have indulged in a trolley dash. (Yes, I was ashamed but now I join in for fun but always let older people or people with less than I have to pay for, in front of me)(oh, and any "babes")

It is a generalisation but it is an accurate one, in my humble experience of indulging in life over the past (nearly) 16 years of hanging out in Germany (with Germans)

@Bluedave:
If Potbelly's a good boy today, he might not get the well-deserved smack on the back of the head for having much more than a Guiness or two last night and then walking me home at 1AM babbling nonsense about wallflowers.

I have to add this one as it's so true...read this article on a blog:

"In Germany, the top-selling ice cream novelty is a chocolate-covered vanilla ice cream pop, which is advertised with placards that stand on the sidewalk outside each shop showing an almost entirely naked African boy with an imbecilic grin, a huge bone jammed through his nose and every vicious stereotype of black facial characteristics ever used by the Nazis or any other hate group. The Negerkuss, a German ice cream treat similar to our Klondike bar, translates generously as "black man's kiss" and literally as "nigger's kiss." Astonishingly, when I would ask Germans about these marketing methods, they would accuse me of being wildly oversensitive."

This is so true, I've had too many wasted discussions with germans I know. In the end the conversation turns to me being the "oversensitive" one, and they "didn't mean it that way".

Am I the only one to react to the word "neger". As far as I'm concerned this is so offending.

@JDinMunich

Which blog was that ?

JDinMunich: not sure my opinion is of any interest as i am german, i grew up with Negerkuss. and i love them. i am not a racist, nor ignorant. they taste sweet and are great for games at parties. so any association with the product of negerkuss is good and positive for me. the word neger is not part of my language, so the only i ever use it, then it is negerkuss.
not sure my argument is valid or just showing some underlying ignorance but i think you are a bit oversensitive.

http://www.slate.com/id/2118016/

I saw it here afte rlooking up the use of this word. I've tried to undersand it, spoken with friends and family back home and non-german friends here and they think it is outrageous. Do you ever here anyone on TV using this word?

You can't equate Neger with nigger.

They may sound the same and mean roughly the same thing but they have different connotations. It's more like calling someone black, it's not exactly politically correct but it's not as insulting as the latter term.

What ER said. It's not a bad word unless used with an angry voice and directed specifically at someone in a tone that's meant to be insulting. Of course, calling someone a goat or a brick in that manner is just as bad (implying an inability to think due to a complete lack of grey matter).

Neger is a normal, non-racist word in normal contexts. If you go to a bar and order one you'll get a cola-weizen, 50-50 cola and Weißbier. And of course there's the sickeningly sweet, marshmallowy Negerküss.

Welcome to Germany.

woof.

really, i would seriously disagree, and so would a couple of black friends i know, both english and german. in the last 13 years i've yet to have heard the word used without it being either demeaning or belittleing.

EDIT - negerküss, oh what fun big and black like an blackman's lips. can we take racial stereotyping any further than that. judetaschentuch, larger size of course...