13 yr old daughter's high phone bill

hi all ,

I need some advice from (teenage) parents:

I just received my phone bill from telekom - first thought was there is a mistake, but after a long session with my calculator I had the solution: 177 € of the 231 € are from my almost 13 yr old (only) daughter: lots of long calls to cellphones, mainly to her new "boyfriend(s)" (whatever this means in her age?)

previous months were fine, she never had more than 5-10 € and I thought her late phone-o-mania was local calls only -as I always told her about costs of calls to cellphones. also, she often received calls, so I didn't worry about the bill.

... I've already called her and yelled a bit into the phone (she is at a friends, her luck!) and told her "you know what to expect at home". - now I've calmed down, and to be honest I don't know yet what she should expect from my side. I am thinking about the right way to deal with this issue- from a pedagogic and financial point of view.

- one thing is sure, no more extended phone-chats for the next couple of weeks (thinking about a 2 months- phone-ban, phoning only in my presence so it won't get too long I guess)

now what would you do?

- should I forbit also that others call her, that she has to take a break from this phone-addiction?

- cancel cinema or other activities with friends (which I am normally paying for)?
- normally she gets 15 € a month, i had planned to raise this to 20 for her birthday next month (or maybe more and then stop paying extra for cinema etc). Cancel the raise?
- take the money from her savings (she has enough of it)?
- make her do some "social work" (like cleaning my car or the windows and other things I am too lazy for?)
- take away the money she got for christmas (50 €)- but I guess the people who gave it to her wouldn't like to have invested into a phone bill ...

... now parents or other teenage-experienced guys, advice is needed.

I know it's kind of "normal" teenage behaviour but 177 Euro is more than peanuts (this is more than 300 DM as I still say...)

Zee

Let her have her own handy and deal with a prepaid card.

she has her handy ... prepaid card is mostly empty, of course.

i was going to suggest the handy thing
can't you put the 20€ onto that, instead of pocket money?

Take her to the Hague.

the 15/20 € is for buying her own little stuff when she goes "shopping" (mostly make-up, underwear at h&m and what else is in the mind of 12-13 yr old girls) ...
I mean I know how to limit the phone calls in future (=control also at the landline phone), but I wonder how to deal with her behaviour in a way that she has to "feel" a bit about what she has done ... it's not that I wanna just pay the bill (or take it from her savings) and tell her: ok from tomorrow on less phone calls.

Try thinking of her as a person, and remember how you felt when you were a young girl/teenager. You can't seem to remember. This will help.

We probably all did this as teenagers and like I was, your daughter probably just forgot about the cost of the calls being carried away with conversations of first love or first crushes or hopes for the future or make-up or clothes and all those things that fills a teenage girls head.
I suggest making known your disaproval and perhaps making her pay a small portion of it and do a few extra chores but allow her this mistake and tell her that phoning cell-phones is only for emergencies or very brief calls. If she lets you down again, well that is the time to rethink the punishment.
I don't think it is advisable to only permit phone-calls with you present, it'll only cause resentment and prevent her from enjoying all those girly secrets which are an essential part of growing up.

If you have ISDN then she can have her own line?

One more thing...suggest skype or instant messaging to your daughter (if you have flat rate internet). Then she can chat as long as she wants at no cost.

there wasn't any cellphones at the time, and only one line so with a family of 4 the costs were more limited.

no seriously, you are right that I am getting really TOO upset about this all,
but, anyhow I would like to give her some kind punishment/duty that she sees that there is consequences of what she has done.

thought that some of you might have had similar issues with their kids.

thanks Tara, that was useful ...

the other questions:

we have ISDN.
she uses the chat (ICQ), and one phone at the same time (and sometimes the cellphone also). she has her own line. recently she's had conference calls with both phones in use, this is why part of the costs were also on my phone this time.
my computer goes seperately as I have a DSL-flat paid by my company.

She is only 13, she doesn't need a handy for fucks sake. She racked up the bill, she needs to pay for it. No, not part of it, the whole damn thing. Do not give in or she will expect it everytime.
Also, get off the pedagogic and DM train. The DM is over and pedagogic is crap science! You're a parent and not your daughter's lackey.
As for the phone ban for the next couple of weeks, are you kidding me? She needs to be banned from the phone for 3 months minimum and more like until she is 15. I am not talking about phone calls at home to and from her friends after the three months is over, I am talking about that handy. If she needs one for emergency purposes, then that is what it is for only. Then when she is 15, she needs to earn her phone credits herself. She needs to learn economics now or she will become a spoiled brat that expects everything to come her way just so easy like. Huh, life is life and she needs to learn to deal with it now.
If she has so much to say, then tell her to write a letter.

@Eurovol.

Seems we hit a nerve here. What did Ian do this past week?

What's the real problem in this situation, i.e. what is the punishment for? Is it a financial reason as you have a high phone bill to pay, or is it because she was inconsiderate, or did she break a boundary which you set?

Of course, a solution to the financial aspect is online chat/Skype etc, however, it's only avoiding the problem if she's ignoring your wishes on purpose.

If you had never clearly said how much she was allowed to telephone, then I'd think twice about a 'punishment'.

If you had set a boundary, and she rebelled against it and telephoned so much, resulting in a high bill, then make her pay part of it however you like (from her pocket money, make her get a job, whatever you see fit).

It's not clear to me though, what the problem is. You have a high phone bill, all of a sudden. What's the real reason for it?

Have had similar and my route was to limit internet access for a month ( this hits home ) and to declare that future fone bills and internet usage would be directly proportional

seemed to work for me

ISDN Phones have locks (Well PINs) USE THEM and lock her out!!!
.
Also VOIP providers may offer "Some" relief, as many now offer unlimited calls to german land lines for as low as 9.99 Eur a month. The problem is that they still charge .20-.29 per minute to call mobile phones.
.
With companies like 1und1 you can get the VOIP deals, AND use the supplied Fritx box to block calls to certain vorwahls (Areacodes) such as 017 for mobile phones..

Not Ian as he is only 4.
I see shades of my nephew in this and well, he ain't the most responsible kid around. The hardest part about being a parent is putting the foot down early and sticking with it. The early lessons of responsibility are probably the most important ones of all and to fudge it away is not helping your child. I also see no reason outside of emergency purposes for a child of 13 to have a cell phone, but that is just me. She obviously has one and now she has to learn how to be responsible with it. Depending on the circumstances, it might be wise to let her decide how to pay off the bill and see what she comes up with that is acceptable. If you don't set your standards too low, then she could learn the valuable lesson this way as well. It is what we do as grownups in a way if you think about it.

... my first reaction was like yours, now I am still inbetween of very hard reaction and more like Taras reply above, bit of more understandful.

anyhow her credit on the handy is VERY low, 10 € per month, this is not much more than an emergency handy.


It's not that I don't have the money, but I don't WANT to pay so much for her phone calls, so probably I will take part of the money from pocket money (which she will feel) and the rest from the saving (which doesn't hurt), minus the money she would be allowed for phoning.

it's more the boundary thing, cause she is allowed a maximum of 5-10 € a month on the Festnetz, (and knows it) and she always was within the boundaries and it was before yesterday that she got another reminder about the cell-phone costs.

didn't think it was "in purpose" it was rather forgetting about all rules cause of rushing hormones, not being aware HOW expensive it is and then some "she might not control the bill in detail" attitude

the phone-ban is decided, and I think her birthday presents next month will get a bit smaller ...

this thread is bringing back very unpleasant memories of when i was 13
can't you cut the poor kid some slack?

13 is a horrendous age to be, without getting extra grief for a few phone calls

and if she's always kept within her boundaries before, but suddenly she's running up a bill that's over 10 times higher than the usual, then maybe she's got some kind of problem going on?

I'm really bad in saying anything, as I haven't been (yet) in the situation, but if this is the first time, don't you think you should at least ask her what happened that she needed to talk so much?

the locking thing is not my favorite as up to now, trust worked well with us. might reconsider if things repeat.

the "problem" going on is a bunch of girls and a bunch of guys (12-13) discovering a new world ... she is one of the peer girls in her class and always has the problems that she cannot decide whom of the guys to take.

anyhow thanks for the interesting discussion ... I see your opinions are as divided as myself.

in 30 minutes I have to leave pick her up so hope to have made my mind until then .

Did you have a cell phone when you were 13? Just cause there is new technology doesn't mean that the kids automatically get to use it. Hell, there are some really neat rifles out today that would make my .22 look like a BB gun, but that doesn't mean that I automatically have to have one. Sure, she is hitting puberty and it is rough, but life will be rougher if she doesn't learn boundaries now. That is why I suggested letting her set her own punishment on this. You can find out fairly quickly how serious she takes it and what she is willing to give up for being so careless and irresponsible. The thing with this is that you have to have a limit set in your own mind before you go this route and she has to meet it. Let her keep trying until she does. She spent nearly €200 while conference calling on the computer, the phone and a handy. I tend to think that that is too much tech for a 13 year old, but respect that she knows how to use it all. Still, we don't want to lose site of the responsibility problem while at the same time encouraging the fact that she is tech savy. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of letting her figure out the way to make it right. The line in the sand that I would draw is that she would pay off the bill in the ways that she can and make a plan and make sure she sticks with it. Hell, she could pay it off by doing book reports over the next three months (one each month). If she has a bad subject in school, then she should read books on that subject and submit the reports to the parents and the teacher for review. Tell her that each report is worth €50 and that she will be required to submit a €50 report or have to make it better. This gets several things done and is a damn site better than simply letting her off with a warning. This seems to be her first step over the line, don't simply make it her "first" step, but her last step over the line unless she is willing to put up with the consequences. You know the old saying, "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime!"

I am not mixing it up with school, nor with her sports (as I know other parents do). school is a VERY difficult and complicated matter for her, she's just changed schools from Gymnasium to Realschule, a year of permanet frustration behind her (though she tried her best). since a month or two she is performing really better and gets some more fun and interest in learning and better results. I won't touch this ... for the rest I quite agree with you Eurovol.
I'll keep you updated .

That is understandable. Perhaps don't make it "school" involved, but play on her tech saviness? Give her a scholastic style goal of something she can do well and that could feed over into the "real" school. Perhaps have her write a report on how VoIP actually works that allows her to conference call all her buds at the same time. Maybe she could do a report on cell phone technology and why it is more expensive to call other handy's. This way she could probably learn a lesson on why the costs are so high and be more aware of them in the future. My advise is to be creative, but make her pay in one way or another for her transgression. Outside of that, a tool shed and a whip comes to mind, but I wouldn't recommend that approach. Although, it did seem to work on one of my best friends.

Bloody glad you weren't my dad eurovol ! Jebus you make scrooge look like a kindred spirit.

She's 13 fer christsakes ! Cut her some slack, explain that it's not acceptable and as i sugested earlier, link future rewards / priveleges to future behaviour.

I can guess that your motto is " Spare the rod, spoil the Child " ?

I don't believe in beating a kid. I do believe in what is taught to 11 year old kids in the Boy Scouts as long as you change the word "God" to "the greater good".

Boy Scout Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan
Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

TRUSTWORTHY
A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

LOYAL
A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

HELPFUL
A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

FRIENDLY
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

COURTEOUS
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

KIND
A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

OBEDIENT
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

CHEERFUL
A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

THRIFTY
A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

BRAVE
A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

CLEAN
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

Scout Motto

Be Prepared

Scout Slogan

Do a Good Turn Daily

babies aren't born scouts: should we make them so??

It would makes things much easier..

I got my first real scientist job because I was an Eagle Scout. You don't have to be a goodie goodie to be a scout and to learn citizenship. The real scouts beat those little momma's boys up.

the boy scouts ffs ?

have i slipped into a parallel dimension here or what ?

a 13 year old girl runs up a big phone bill once and next thing quasi cadet training is being proposed

unbelieable overreaction imho

this board gets more surreal sometimes than the simpsons

13 year old little girls can go from being a Princess to a pregnant slut in the matter of minutes. Thinking you can get away with one thing will lead to thinking you can get away with everything faster than you can say "Damn, when did you grow up on me?"
Pick your battles wisely as you will lose in the end regardless. Seriously, that is why I say responsibility is the best battle of all and the most important. Everything else relies too much on it.

Unbelievable comment, i rest my case re : overreaction

You don't have kids do you?

(Take your time there PES, I gotta go walk the dogs. )

Let's cool down. This is clearly an emotional issue. I have two kids under 6 so I have time to face these issues. Eurovol is a softy liberal. Other issues have been raised. TT is a great place to discuss such issues, but as parents we each have to know what we want for our children. A single day, a single phone bill is not the issue here. It is a question about trust, responsibility, and experience. I think we all agree: we want good, moral and responsible kids (that life is easier for them). But in the end it is less a matter of rules (and force), and more a matter of love and trust.

You mean the simpsons arent real...

Shit..

As for the phone problem... As a parent you got it wrong, how the hell can you expect us to help?..

update:

- I could see that she is really sorry (I mean really not just to calm me down ... I still can tell this difference) as it was mostly unawareness. the thought of not being able to phone for a while made her freak out a bit but she had to accept.

- seems that her mates have produced far worse bills than her: 500 something and 700 something! - she couldn't tell me how their parents dealt with it, lots of them are spoilt suburbian kids so I rather do not want to know.

- finanicial issue is solved- part from her savings, part from pocket money.

- phone ban for her-calling-out for the whole january, (which will reduce her bill a bit)- to receive calls it's 6 days, but she can decide which days- which is more symbolic to me.

- her social project is that she will write a little story with pics (at the computer) and she already began, but I will take care that she finishs it ...

- anyhow if things like this repeat I might reconsider my strategy.

...I think the reactions here were all quite normal-
every parent has to find his own way between setting limits and being consequent on one side, be loving, understanding and also considering the world-we-live-in on the other side,

for our case I had the impression that there HAS to be some consequence and limits, as I don't think the attitude of her is healthy (consuming consuming consuming and all kind of media involved at the same time) - nor to her nor for the family (just me and her by the way ), and if I set her rules she should respect them.

- anyhow I can ask myself also whether I should spend less time reading forums and talk to my daughter more often ! (whether she would like it is another question) .

after all this bans will be over we will re-consider a reasonable phone-rate policy for her per month, which satisfies her need for talking to her best friends, but doesn't ruin me either, maybe skype/VoiP is an option .

thanks for your help - it was indeed a help to make up my own decisions .

Yes, they are your own decisions and we obviously don't know all the ins and outs. Sounds like you have a good plan and it sounds like your kid is a good one. I think you should keep her.

Yes!

good grief, i've seen it all now...

oh considering me being her mum I think she came out pretty well. But I can't be really objective in this case.

now as the young one sleeps and I am having my relax-good-night-tea:
considering a lot of other families, kids and struggles in life I got to know, I am very glad and grateful that the main issue with my daughter is a high phone bill (or whether she is allowed to wear heels, have her own ebay-account, an apple Ipod, her hair colored and the usual "homework first" issues ...).
in fact we both can be and in fact are really happy with life (Amen).

@zee - you sound like a wonderful, thoughtful parent.
@Eurovol - May you never have a girl!!!

Interesting discussion. I was a horrible teen, and ran up quite a few phone bills myself. I remember how hard it was to control myself...I just HAD to talk to X,Y,Z...and was punished and had to pay up and do extra chores.

But I do think that a few people mentioned a great point. When a pattern in a kid changes, something more may be going on than just a high phone bill. If one can table their anger and disappointment and make sure the child is o.k. first...that is great.

However, I also agree that children need to respect clear rules and boundries...the emphasis being on clear. I think it is great that she has to deal with the consequences of her actions by paying part of the bill and losing some privaleges, it is what I would have done.

But my last thought on this is...even if a lower rate plan is available, should a 13 year old have constant access to a phone, just because, as Eurovol stated, the technology exists? I would be concerned that a "unlimited minutes" phone plan may encourage excessive socialization that may effect school work, or perhaps provide more access to "boys" than a 13 year old may need, or decrease desire to do other things like sports or other extracurricular activities. Just a thought. Maybe a certain number of "minutes" is not such a bad thing, and provides some degree of awareness of how much time she is spending on the phone. I know many parents limit computer time with their kids (that is not school related) for the same reasons...as it can become all consuming.

Best of luck. I am sure I will be paid back for my teenage evilness 10 fold when I am a parent.

I would have gotten a hiding, but the threat was enough. Bit of discipline perhaps? I know my sister needed a thorough thrashing with the belt before she learnt how to behave, doesnt seem to be that PC here in germany though, german styles seem to be more along the lines of "let them do what they like". Up to you as a parent really, (within the constraints of the law unfortunatly, "let her do as she likes" I guess it is then...)

when I was 13 my older sister ran up a $400 calling long distance to her boyfriend, only time I ever saw my Dad lose his tempure and swear like sailer, shortly there after he had the phone disconected for several months.

Not that I have kids, but Hell, I have done enough volunteer crap with teenage girls to know a thing or two! I admire how you have delt with the issue, but is it going to get better? From my experience, NO! Without her knowing the boundries and that YOU will actually hold them, it will never improve. Sorry to sound so down on you, but Heck at 13 a talk with my parents never was effective! Real punishment was. I think our world has gone too PC as Eurovol has mentioned, and kids need know REAL punishment for wrong doings. Sorry, but a shake of the finger and don't do that again, won't cut it! Total loss of taschengeld and 3 months of not allowed to use the phone are real punishment. GOD, she rang up almost a 200 Euro bill, that is more than my bill, and I love to talk!
I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully, your next phone is not as large!

I agree with gemini that clear rules and to learn to deal with them is better than unlimited minutes and flat-rates.

daughter has cleaned up the kitchen and cooked today- I asked: have a bad conscience? she said- no, I was hungry and the kitchen was discusting (she had a point there ... ) - I think it has to do with yesterdays argue cause this is rather unnormal behaviour for her ...

I'll know more next month (and the months after...) -
as I said up to now the soft line was ok but maybe my daughter will teach me to become a hardliner?

btw happy new year to all parents and future parents and no parents !

Look, when I was 13 we had no phones. We cycled off to meet friends. We wrote letters letters to each other. The lack of the tel.call solution route usually allowed enough time for the huge problems to solve themselves through dissipation. We learned to think before we acted.

I really believe the prepaid phone solution is the best if this daughter really has to have a phone.

A weekly paper round, some dog walking for the neighbours, things like will allow an added income perfectly adequate for any 13 year old to enjoy luxuries. She can do the paper round with the friends she so desperately needs to talk to.

She could get her friends to join TT!

Somehow or another I see that gargoyle called "convenience" rearing its ugly head.

Wow. When a practical problem comes along, you can really tell who the parents are on this forum.

@zee: it sounds as if you've got a fair approach to the problem.

Clear boundaries, sure, but of course there are going to be those issues that emerge as the child grows older...sounds like this is one of those cases. You got caught unaware, but now you know. And 'punishment' that is directly tied to the offense, i.e., in this case, some form of repayment for the financial problem--whether it's an issue for you or not, the child needs to be made aware of the practical results of their actions. She has a limit that's been set, she goes over it, she pays for it. Simple. So long as the limit was clear, I see no problem there. I'd do the same.

Surely the love and trust come in regards to limitations on phone time? If she pays for the offense, and understands that she will be expected to do the same in the future, then what is the need, exactly, for cutting off phone privileges for a first offense? Now if she had an outstanding bill, that would make sense...same thing would happen to her as an adult, no? And the focus on pointing out cheaper means to keep in touch is admirable, as well. It gives her a way to address the problem.

I don't see why this is harsh. Especially when measured against those suggesting that beating a child with a belt ever did any child any lasting good.

I like gemini's point that maybe it's not so much the money, it's the time on the phone that really will hurt her studies in future. It's hard to know how much a phone call will end up costing at the end of the month, but time can be limited and tracked.

This also seems like a good chance to talk to your daughter about how easily other things can add up, too. It's probably not too early to point out that the same thing can happen with credit card spending without vigilance and limits. Or electricity usage. Etc.