Penalties if checkers catch you one or more times - Berlin

On the u-bahn, s-bahn or tram

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Krieg
What's wrong with you guys? I'm not whining, nor trying to get out of buying my tickets. I don't take the train EVERY day just most, so I never bought a monthly pass.
If you only take the train once in a while how can you forget to buy a ticket? Sorry but that does not sound right.
busst
Three, four days a week isn't everyday, but it also isn't once in a while.
You know, when the train comes, and you run to catch it, without stopping at the machine. A few times on the tram its too crowded to get to the machine, and if I'm only on for two stops or so.... then the ticket doesn't get validated. That's how I got caught my 2nd time, on the way out of the tram, they were on the platform. Or sometimes you just plain forget to validate a ticket. Or you buy a short trip ticket, but go farther than 3 stops, missing your stop, or going the wrong direction. Or like someone said, someone forgets their briefcase. I swear to god, it happens.

Not every "schwarzfaherer" is a pre-meditated fare dodger.

Nobody here is justifying riding without a ticket.

What I want to know is, what happens the third time.
Sure I can just not buy a ticket, and find out, like some of you suggest. But I plan on buying tickets just as I have for the time I have been here. What I want to know is what happens if I forget one day, again.
And if anyone here has had their 3rd strike, and can tell what ACTUALLY happens. Not just what is written on paper, because Jaywalking is illegal on paper.

Why can't people just answer the questions, provide a firsthand story..... or not, but if not, leave out the moral judgements.
SpiderPig
Why can't people just answer the questions, provide a firsthand story..... or not, but if not, leave out the moral judgements.
Because this IS Toytown!
busst
Which means you are all most likely British, Australian, American or Canadian, most likely not German. Who'd have thunk you'd be bigger sticklers for the rules than the Germans are. It's mindblowing
SpiderPig
Hardly rocket science!!
BadDoggie
but down in Munich, you can not pay the ticket checker on the spot.
WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! As usual.
You can pay cash on the spot in Munich (and must do so if you're not an EU resident) but you can't yet use an EC or credit card. During Oktoberfest -- contrary to popular myth -- there is ride control (though not really on the U-Bahns near the grounds), and there are many police details from neighbouring lands (IT, FR, AT, CZ, PL, NL, GB and others) who will assist and, if necessary, charge people under home laws.

Gosh, Darknight, I actually know you are wrong.
Everyone does. Sometimes the realisation just takes a bit longer.

My husband, with a Jahreskarte... did show up with his Jahreskarte and was told that he could have given it to someone else that day...
Correct. This is why there are two types of annual cards, at least in some cities. Berlin is one of those. You do have the ability to get a personal card which covers your ass in case you forget it. You must go in and get a picture card. This is only available for annual cards, not monthlies. Same in Munich, where you can get a transferable slightly cheaper

He appealed and was told, nope. So that's my 1st hand knowledge.
Because he had a monthly, not an Abo (annual subscription). Monthly cards are transferable and only valid when in the person's possession. If you forget your annual card and are busted, you have until the Abo expiration to bring the card in and show it at a BVV office. There will most likely be a €7,50 administrative fee (only €5 in Munich). In Berlin there is an understanding this can happen and you get one free ride (no pun intended) a year, for whcih the admin fee will be waived.

I buy my Jahreskarte direct from the nice folk at the BVG and there is no name on it, nor any option to have one (unless I write it in pen).
So you're as wrong as DK, quite a feat. Because you can get a card which is tied to you and as an annual Abo they have additional info on you to match up.

Short & sweet:
1) Berlin and Munich both offer annual cards, both with identifying information and without.
2) Berlin and Munich both require immediate payment of €40 if you're caught out UNLESS you're a legal EU resident with ID on you
3) You can (and often must) pay the €40 Schwarzfahrer penalty on the spot.
4) Even if you have the documentation and can later produce the fare card, you will pay an admin fee for your fuck-up. €5/7,50 beats the shit out of €40.
5) Multiple errors (your name is Prof. Airhead and you keep getting popped but keep showing your Abo-Ticket and paying the admin fees) will not land you in jail
6) Losing your named (as opposed to unnamed, transferrable) Isar-Card (Munich) more than once a year will result in the contract being terminated, and single, annual replacements over multiple consecutive years can also lead to the contract being negated.

All of this info and a lot more can be obtained from:
Berlin: 030 / 19 44 9
Munich: 089 / 41 42 43 44

Yeah, I actually called to confirm all of this shit. Took about 5 minutes total for both cities.

woof.
Harrow
My husband, with a Jahreskarte, had changed his briefcase due to a laptop issue and, in his suit, was controlled. He did show up with his Jahreskarte and was told that he could have given it to someone else that day and therefore was the same as a schwartzfahrer and needed to pay the max fine. He appealed and was told, nope.
As I said previously, twice I have been found without my monthly ticket.
The first time I turned up, explained my bag was stolen in Amsterdam, the woman asked me my Abo number and for ID, and reduced the fine to €7.
The second time, I didn't have my ticket on me when I went to pay, and the guy refused to accept my Abo-number, saying I could have sold my ticket to someone else. I tried telling him my bag was stolen, but he didn't care. I came back with the actual ticket for August, and he reduced the fine to €7.

I think it depends on how nice/happy the worker is feeling when you go, how friendly/accepting you are, and also whether it is DeutschBahn (S Bahn) or BVG (U Bahn).

I have also paid on the train once, back in 2010 coming back from the airport not noticing I had ran over into the next month... I received a Quittung so I think that still ended up in the system.
busst
Well I just bought the 10AM-3AM monthly card today. So I'm in the clear for one more month, unless I forget it at home. Still only 2 strikes.

In Berlin, anyway, we don't have to pay the 40 eur fine on the spot. We can choose to, or we can get a ticket, that has the bank info for BVG for us to pay later, or by post. I know this firsthand from getting caught... lol.

When we pay the 40 EUR on the spot, they don't take down any of your personal info. So are we all in agreement that this doesn't get counted as a "strike"?

Hypothetically, I am 100% convinced that someone who keeps 40 Eur on them at all times, can shwarzfare forever, and stay off the radar, and still spend less than the monthly ticket, over time. I was checked 3 times in 6 months.

When you don't have the 40 EUR on the spot, they take down your passport info and address, and then we have 2 weeks to pay. So I assume we are then in the system.

They had no idea either way whether or not I was a legal resident, at the time. I had my American passport, and my NY drivers license, and that's it. They didn't check my passport stamps, or even to see if I had a visa. (I have one, but they didn't check). Told them both times I had no cash, they wrote me a ticket, and sent me on my way. I actually did have 40 EUR the 2nd time, now I wish I would have paid up front, and I'd only be on strike 1.

I know BVG will say that 3x= jail, just as if we called the police station, and about the penalty for jay walking, the official answer will be that we get a ticket. Might be a paper rule, but not really enforced.

Another thing that was unclear in
"Die Polizei bestätigt es: „Die BVG sammelt immer erst einmal. Wenn einer dann mindestens drei Mal schwarzgefahren ist, kommt die Sache zu uns“, sagt Polizeisprecher Klaus Schubert. Bei der Polizei wird daraus ein Ermittlungsverfahren, der Vorgang bekommt eine Nummer, der Beschuldigte einen Brief mit dem Angebot, sich zu äußern. Danach geht die Sache zur Amtsanwaltschaft. Die Polizei hat keine Möglichkeit, das Verfahren zu erledigen."

It is unclear to me with my rough translation, whether or not that is when there are three outstanding fines, or just three fines in general, even paid.

Someone here on TT must have three strikes already, and can confirm this, or disprove it.
Darkknight
Why can't people just answer the questions, provide a firsthand story..... or not, but if not, leave out the moral judgements.
Now who's on the high horse.. You asked for advise and input into a situ.. You got it. Just because you don't like somethings people
said is no reason to get all bent out of shape. You asked, you got.. DEAL WITH IT!!

As for paying the ticket checkers in Munich cash on the spot. They only do this (and very begrudgingly) with tourist.
AKA: people that are only here for a short time and have no living place registered in Germany. Also, since they
started using the portable terminals to record/issue tickets (last 2-4 years), they stopped doing on the spot payments.
(except for the above mentioned group of people).
kato
It is unclear to me with my rough translation, whether or not that is when there are three outstanding fines, or just three fines in general, even paid.
It is rather clear in saying that it refers to Schwarzfahren in general, i.e. to the act in itself. It doesn't refer to getting caught (although that's a prerequisite for prosecution of course), neither does it refer to outstanding "fines" (since that's a purely civil proceedings matter between you and the transport company).
Darkknight
You can pay cash on the spot in Munich (and must do so if you're not an EU resident)
BULLSHIT REBOUND!!! I saw them do exactly as I stated Just today, about 5 hours ago on the S8 between hackerbruke and hauptbahnhof..

The person caught in question was an American from Texas, they recorded all her details and escorted her the the DB service
center to pay the fine, after they had already processed her as they do everybody else (with the portable terminal).
Notice I said she was taken to the service center to pay the fine. Not that she paid the fine to the checkers, as they would not accept
an on the spot cash payment. So unless you were actually with me (you weren't) you have no fooking clue what I saw go down and
have no proof/backing to prove your claims..

I suggest you go talk the the ticket checkers, both DB and MVG and come back when you got your story right.
Perhaps the checkers a a bit of leeway in how they handle these cases and that perhaps there is more than 1
way used.
gail123
WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! As usual.
You can pay cash on the spot in Munich (and must do so if you're not an EU resident) but you can't yet use an EC or credit card. During Oktoberfest -- contrary to popular myth -- there is ride control (though not really on the U-Bahns near the grounds), and there are many police details from neighbouring lands (IT, FR, AT, CZ, PL, NL, GB and others) who will assist and, if necessary, charge people under home laws.
--- not quoting it all, but to show what I am responding to....

Yeah, I actually called to confirm all of this shit. Took about 5 minutes total for both cities.

woof.
Then I guess when I walk into the BVG center, hand them my EC card, and get a Jahreskarte (which is comprised of 12 anonymous monthly tix that state x/12 and the yearly fee), I will tell the BVG fellow that he is doing it wrong. In 5 years, never been offered any option for a "personalized card" and have no idea what you are talking about. No one I know (dozens) with Jahreskartes have personalized cards, unless they have student cards (like my kids) , or Hartz IV cards- that is, discounted cards. And I assure you my husband showed up with his card, with receipts showing he owned the card, and argued (he was on the beach at the time and had the time) that it was a mistake that should be forgiven. They still made him pay.

The pain of reality versus theory, ehh?

Whoof to you.
kato
The only persönliche Zeitkarten under VBB rules are tickets for schoolkids and Azubis and for senior citizens, also job tickets. All regular "VBB-Umweltkarte" types are always transferrable, and hence may not run a discharged 7 Euro admin charge instead of 40 Euro if caught without.

See §9,(3) and Section 5.2 of the VBB tariff rules.

Verkehrsverbund Berlin-Brandenburg pretty much has the crappiest, most convoluted set of tariff rules out there.
gail123
And let me point out that the actual tix for school kids are not personalized: they are required to carry a second, personalized (with photo, stamp and signature) document with the VBB card at all times.
Krieg
From the BVG website:

"Schülertickets sind persönliche, nicht übertragbare Zeitkarten. Sie gelten nur im Tarifbereich Berlin AB in Verbindung mit einer VBB-Kundenkarte."

I think you are supposed to write the name of the kid in the ticket, just like other student and hartz4 discounted tickets.
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