Work Permits for Canadians in Germany

Ok, I know that this topic has been touched for many times now, but we have a huge problem with this. My in-laws have moved from Canada to Munich 4 months ago. My father-in-law got a job at HIT Market as a Sales Person. But the problem is that his work permit has been declined for a second time now. Does anyone have any experience in this. They say that there are many German people and people from EU on the market and they can´t hire him. Is the problem to get the first working permit or in general??? And how is it if he finds work with a non EU company. Is it any different. These people are on the edge with their nervs and I want to help them. Any tipps???

Thats just how it goes some times. If you arent from an EU country, or from another country that has an agreement with germany, then whether you get a work permit or not depends on the job market in that particular job.

I only just found this out recently. It seems everyone has a slightly different idea what the actual requirements are for foreigners working here. I have asked many many times what the exact requirements are but the best answer I got so far is something like "it depends on the local landratsamt and arbeitsamt, just fill in the form and see what happens".

I was originally supposed to come here on the green card scheme, which at least has clearly defined restrictions such as only being able to stay for a max of 5 years, but for some reason the green card program wasnt valid for me so I just have the normal Aufenthaltstitel and Arbeitsgenehmigung. Each one seems to be valid for a year, but each one seems easy to renew.

I have no idea what category I am here under, and the civil servants here dont seem to know either. I dont know if I fit into the same category as americans or canadians here. I do know however that its easier for New Zealanders to come here than it is for Bulgarians and Indians (who have to go on the green card program, if it still exists).

So if anyone here is an immigration expert, and knows what category I fit under and what the requirements and rules are, I would love to know. It would be nice to know if a permit application could be denied on arbitrary reasons for example, but no official has been able to answer that for me.

So yeah, if hes looking into shop sales work as a career, it might indeed be very hard for him to get permission. There are 10% of germans unemployed remember, so I can understand that.

Well actually he is looking for any kind of work, just to stay here because their whole familiy is here. But the problem is that not every company wants to fill out this working permit. And the only company he had found is HIT. See my husband and I didn´t have that kind of problems.
What we have been suggesting to him is to take anything and work for 6 months and then he should get himself fired and go to unemployment. I don´t think there would be any problems of getting the work permit in that case (getting the unemployment money). Don´t u think

So deliberately go onto unemployment benefit? Don't think that that will be a popular choice with people reading that on the board, and of course if the Germans thought that he had deliberately done so, he would be told to leave I would think...

It does seem like a strange thing to do to deliberatly get fired. How would that actually help him with his goal of getting a job? As far as I know, you can only get a work permit and residence permit with a job. Unemployment just increases the chances that he wont have a job when he needs one for the permits.

Getting fired can turn out damn good however. In my first year here, after working 1 and a half years for our first company, just as we started to get sick of it anyway, we all got made redundant. Just as summer started, we get a 3 month redundancy pay, then our unemployment benefit was still more than what many of our peers were earning.

It was excellent, the german government paid us to spend the summer swimming and travelling europe, drink at oktoberfest and spend the winter skiing.

After 8 months and the ski season, the dole reduced, and we either found new jobs or moved on.

Gotta love the welfare system here eh? Pity its not sustainable.

And all this from a man who worries about Irish 'immigrants' sleeping in his car?!? Think we should be more concerned about immigrants from elsewhere in the world - they're all out to nick our taxes and blow 'em all on beer!

Guys you are not helping here... We are not talking about beer...Work permit is the TOPIC,
Anyhow, what should he do to stay here. I need TIPS!!!

sorry...

no job...no permit!

can stay 3 months without one!!!

sorry to all the anarchists out there ... but cheating the welfare system in any country is disgraceful. It raises the taxes for the ones who do their best and work really hard. As walker1 says, if you can't get a job in 3 months, go home tourist.

Natasa, it's sad about your father in law not getting a work permit, but its just the way they protect their job market here.

The only way you can surely get a work permit here is when the company who is hiring you cannot find the workforce locally. Companies are obliged to post jobs in Germany for 3 months before they can even consider posting globally in the hopes of hiring a foreigner. Again, this protects the citizens of Germany. Every country tries to protect the interests of its citizens in similar ways - some are just not as tough as Germany.

Schroeder is trying to relax the rules on green cards, but the country is not behind him.

Hi
there are 2 types of work permit for non-EU migrants, the limited and the unlimited.
You can only get the unlimited when the applicant has had 5 years using the limited permit.
Legal bit is § 285 SGB III and can be granted when:

So, when employing this person would not affect the German job market adversely or no German or foreigner with an equal legal standing to a German (e.g. EU jobseeker) is available and when the foreigner is not subject to worse job condictions than a German would be (so a tech specialist/rocket scientist/brain surgeon/etc could get a permit as long as there wasn't a big queue of Germans looking for those specific jobs). The decision on the permit is made by the local employment office.
So if he hasn't got a specific skill or qulaification it doesn't look good (mind you, Canada has the same policy).
Ausländerbeirat (Foreigners' Council) in Munich has some useful links
and the Red Cross in Munich also offers information and advice for migrants.
Best wishes
Katrina

Hi Natasha ... although Germany has an exclusive work/visa permit exchange with Canada (and USA, Oz, NZ and Japan) ...in order for a Canadian to work in Germany for longer then 3 months they need the following:

1. 20 000 € in a bank account (or a Guarantor with the same funds)
2. University degree or spealized training
3. Full health insurance

Sadly to say Natasha, your father-in law would be better off in Canada.

Sadly said but his sons are here and his grandson is also here. What should he do in Canada...
Really stupid thing with these work permits

Actually, I wanted to go and work in Canada, but they wouldnt let me in.

Goverment rules are never simple or fair, but you must accept their rules.

Poots

Does anyone know if there is a similar clause for EU nationals going to the US?

Here's my take on the work permit thing:

Regarding the comment about working for 6 months and getting fired - DON'T do it - you will not be covered by unemployment until you have worked (and contributed) for 2 full years

I have had a work permit for over two years now. However, I am 1)American, 2) have a college degree and 3) work in the IT field which means that I didn't have to go through the normal crap(wait 6 weeks to see if they can find a German who is better qualified for the job). It's the same in the US. I also didn't have to wait the 6 weeks(or whatever it is) because if your income is over some amount, the Arbeitsamt person can issue the work permit immediately - I guess they fell that you are a highly paid specialist in your field so they won't find anyone in 6 weeks to fill the position.

This is highly inaccurate. It may be the truth on a basic level, but I certainly never had €20 000 in the bank or a Guarantor. Perhaps flicking my VISA card with it's $2500 CDN limit was enough. Health insurance will be dealt with when you get a job, don't worry about it for your work permit.

Natasa, my best advice is to have your father apply at every hotel in the city. If he really wants to work, he'll have to put up with the crappy hours and the low pay, but he is likely to get hired. Speaking English and shiftwork are the reasons a hotel will be able to get a work permit for him. From there, it will be easier to find another job.

Perhaps things have changed since you last applied for a work permit (or when your company did, which I presume they acted as your "Guarantor") ... however, these were the requirements when I recieved my permit Feb.1, 2004.

That could be, either the change, or that my employer was my Guarantor. Although I don't remember anything about that on the form. But maybe it has changed.

isn't there some consideration for parents of children and grandchildren living here? i think your father-in law could probably stay in germany if you guys sponsored him, but working would be something else. i however would ask about that. perhaps he could do the babysitting and house cleaning and get a legal work permit.
maybe he could be self-employed and get freelancer status.

i would consult a lawyer if he has alraedy been rejected twice. but having family here has to be a bonus.

First of all I would like to thank you for all your tipps and replies. The time is ticking and we are trying everything we can. I don´t think that staying here (Aufenthaltserlaubnis) would be a huge problem, but these guys think about their pensions and they are not too old now (50). We will definately try at some hotels as well and maybe consult a lawyer and it would be really nice if you guys (Toytowners ) hear anything or know anybody who is hiring and is willing to fill out this stupid piece of paper would let me know.

Thanks again

I would still say to try the Red Cross' Migrants Section (link is in a previous post of mine in this thread). They really know their stuff.
Katrina

I need some quick Canadian-in-Germany advice!!!

I've just accepted a great position in a great multi-national company, although ...

They want me to start by next Wednesday in Frankfurt;

Problem is I DON'T HAVE A WORK PERMIT!!

I do have a 2 year residence permit, a signed contract and Letter of Intent. I've also had a 6month work permit issued in Munich (expired now).

I plan on meeting with the Frankfurt Arbeitsamt next Tuesday ...

Has anyone delt with the Frankfurt Arbeitsamt and just how long might I have to wait until I get approved? What can I do in the meantime until it gets approved, can I act as a consultant to this company?

can't the company sort it out for you?
I work for a multinational as well - I know our compnay often does this sort of thing for our newbies.
Ring personnel and ask them, I would. Maybe they do it all the time.

Thanks Topsy,

They are working on it as we speak ...

I guess I wanted others experience when dealing directly with the Frankfurt-amt.
What should I expect when I turn in all my documents?

Topsy is exactly right!! The company will take care of that...especially since it's a larger-sized company.

@ Canuck,

So does that mean, that I don't even have to go to Frankfurt Arbeitsamt ... ?

I'm not a Canuck, but since we're on work permit questions, I do have a question for those in the know or with an opinion:

There is a good chance that my wife and I will be moving shortly from Munich to Garmisch for the foreseeable future. Because of my situation/contract we both have freelance permits.

I will continue (hopefully) to shill software but with the ski season approaching, what are the chances that my wife can find seasonal work in Garmisch? She's trained as a chef and I would assume that bars and restaurants probably staff up for the season.

It seems like there are a number of people who come over on their tourist Visas to work for three months but I never hear about them finding jobs or how they go about it. Anyone ever done this? I would like to think they'd be more interested in someone with a longer term residence permit.

OK. The last few times I renewed my work permit, my company's HR did it all by themselves. I didn't have to go to any Arbeitsamt myself. However, I now remember that the first time I had to go in person. The company printed off a nice letter saying that I was employed by them...I took the letter to the Kreisverwaltungsreferat. I waited in line for 8 hours and I finally got the work permit valid for 1 year. Normally, you get a one year permit, then 2, then 3, then the next is valid for life.

So go to your HR department first, then to the KVR or other office...

• A person who wishes to stay longer than 3 months, even as a tourist, must apply for a residence permit ("Aufenthaltserlaubnis") at the local Alien Registration Office ("Ausländeramt"). The residence permit is normally valid for 12 months and costs approx. EUR 40.00. However, should the passport be valid for a lesser period of time, the residence permit will be issued for the period of validity of the passport. The residence permit may normally be extended every year for an additional 12 months. The fee for the extension is approx. EUR 20.00.
The way this is worded you should be able to get them a Residence Permit for at least 12 months. That will at least gain you some time... Hope this helps.

Having recently experienced the stress of work permit/residence permit renewal(like yesterday!). Here's the deal:

KVR(Kreisverwaltungsreferat) is for Residence Permits. I had to renew mine - I needed a letter of confirmation from my company(saying I was still employed with them) and the last 8(!) paycheck stubs plus a copy of my work permit.

Arbeitsamt is for Work Permits: Mine expires today. I needed a new application which can only be obtained at Arbeitsamt(so take a trip down there to get it if your company doesn't already have one) and copies of the pertinent pages of my Passport(personal information and Residence permit pages). Plus a copy of the old work permit(if you are renewing it). If it's the first time, you need your work contract from your company and proof that you have insurance.

But, the confusing thing for me(it was all a blur three years ago) was that KVR is for Residence Permits and Arbeitsamt is for Work Permits.

@ kitkat64 & canuck ...

Much thanks for your advice!! Wish me luck on Tuesday!!