cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 1:21 pm
Spotted on Salon.com today:
Banking for broads:
QUOTE
We've got women's colleges, women's gyms -- and women's blogs -- so why not women's banks? Today's Telegraph reports that Astrid Hastreiter, a 41-year-old information technology specialist from Germany, has founded "Frauenbank," a she-centric bank designed to "liberate female customers from dealing with patronizing, traditional bank managers."
Though Hastreiter still needs to raise the equivalent of $12 million in order to pay for a full-service banking license, Frauenbank's first branch -- in Munich -- has already attracted 300 customers. Who are they? According to Hastreiter, her clients are overwhelmingly university educated and between the ages of 30 and 55. "It is extraordinary how many German women avoid talking about their money and what to do with it, simply because they are not keen to sit opposite a sharp-suited banker who has little understanding of their needs," she tells reporter Kate Connolly. Indeed, buoyed by the public's positive response, Hastreiter intends to open three more branches of Frauenbank in other German cities and to offer credit by the year 2007.
Could an all-woman bank have crossover appeal? Of course, says Hastreiter -- in fact, already, "a handful" of Frauenbank's customers are male. "We are women friendly, but that does not mean that we are hostile to men," she explains.
Timmeh
Dec 7 2005, 1:22 pm
QUOTE (cinzia @ Dec 7 2005, 1:21 pm)
Spotted on Salon.com today:
We've got women's colleges, women's gyms -- and women's blogs -- so why not women's banks? Today's Telegraph reports that Astrid Hastreiter, a 41-year-old information technology specialist from Germany, has founded "Frauenbank," a she-centric bank designed to "liberate female customers from dealing with patronizing, traditional bank managers."
Oh my fucking god, what a joke
planetmoni
Dec 7 2005, 1:25 pm
cool! i hate dealing with patronizing male bankers!!! same goes for car dealers!
cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 1:35 pm
There's no denying there's a political aspect to where you bank, if you pay attention. Example:
“Focus on the Family has elected to end its banking relationship with Wells Fargo, motivated primarily by the bank’s ongoing efforts to advance the radical homosexual agenda. These efforts are in direct opposition to the underlying principles and purpose of Focus, and thus a decision of conscience had to be made, and a stand taken."
http://www.family.org/welcome/press/a0038760.cfm(Focus on the Family is an American Christian organization whose mission is "to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in disseminating the Gospel of Jesus Christ to as many people as possible, and, specifically, to accomplish that objective by helping to preserve traditional values and the institution of the family.")
Katrina
Dec 7 2005, 1:36 pm
I live around the corner from this lot (and they have an office in my street, nice plants they have too. They are pally with the lot from Frauen Computer Schule (also around the same streets).
This isn't a comment on their business and services though and well, this part of
Neuhausen isn't all anti-men (I rather like them myself).
mrbrain
Dec 7 2005, 1:39 pm
This seems like a great idea. German banks suck, and these local bank managers think they're high-flying f$cking wall street bankers or something. Maybe a Frauenbank will be more welcoming...
Sign me up!!!
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 1:40 pm
QUOTE (cinzia @ Dec 7 2005, 1:21 pm)
"liberate female customers from dealing with patronizing, traditional bank managers."
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/do you get a free pair of dungerees when you open an account. why do wimmin always presume that when a guy is an arrogant wanker its a sexist attack. bank managers treat everybody like wankers ffs.
well then you can see it as a way to emphasize that you don't want to be treated like a wanker, see the handful of men who're banking at the Frauenbank already. Is there another bank that emphasizes friendly service?
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 1:49 pm
HVB where i bank, but they got taken over by italians so dont tell JW. so how are they going to react differently when your 25 K overdrawn and you've lost your job?
"now thats ok, have some chocolate. tell me about your day. ohh your hair looks nice, are those new shoes, yes? well glad to see your wasting OUR moneyon something so devine"
cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 1:52 pm
gideon, are you saying women can't be friendly AND businesslike?
planetmoni
Dec 7 2005, 1:54 pm
friendly service can also mean not being treated like a number but a person.
i don't like banks. if only i would not need them.
Katrina
Dec 7 2005, 1:57 pm
QUOTE (cinzia @ Dec 7 2005, 1:52 pm)
gideon, are you saying women can't be friendly AND businesslike?
Thing is, by setting up a bank for women run by women and say that they offer a uniquely friendly service, you directly imply that men are not friendly.
Think that's what gids is getting at.
Anyway, I do my banking online or via a terminal, hate all branches and care not what sex deals with my cash.
Think this lot orginally started as a credit union if I remember correctly.
boomtown_rat
Dec 7 2005, 2:04 pm
QUOTE
are you saying women can't be friendly AND businesslike?
you implying the same about men?
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 2:05 pm
I think it's a great idea. I never thought about preying on women's insecurities in dealing with male-run institutions as a revenue stream. I think it's a real money-maker.
What other ways might we over-magnify societal inequalities in order to prey on a specific demographic. Ah, I've got it. I'll start a bank just for minorities. I'm sure there are plenty of non-whites who don't want to deal with a patronizing white banker. Or, I could start one just for Ausländer. They can deposit their cash and have a go at the Germans. Should be especially popular with the Turks and Brits.
Or, I know, I'll start a hospital only for White German Men. They'll be able to heal from their skiing injuries free of the burden of not telling racist jokes and we'll only show porn and sports on the in-room plasma screens. Hell, the nurses can double as prostitutes. Heal the soul, heal the body they say.
Yes, creating separate institutions is a great way to prey on specific segments of society, ensure their is never real integration in our world and it will surely be the best thing for business. I like it.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:07 pm
QUOTE (cinzia @ Dec 7 2005, 1:52 pm)
gideon, are you saying women can't be friendly AND businesslike?
no im saying all banks can not be friendly and businesslike in certain situations. doesnt matter if they are run by a woman, a man, or a crossdressing preop bloody transvestite.
"sorry sir we have to foreclose on you"
"is it because i'm a woman?"
"no its because your massively in debt, and have had no income for the last three years"
Timmeh
Dec 7 2005, 2:08 pm
QUOTE (Kza @ Dec 7 2005, 2:06 pm)
Well said Iceberg!
Seconded!
HVB Gids? Gross. I have stories that I won't put in print about the people I knew there.
Anyway, compare the amount of time that you're broke and the amount of time that you're solvent throughout your banking career. Even if the people are only friendly during the time that you're solvent, that's better than having them be wankers all the time.
In dealing with servicepeople, all other things being equal, I'll always pick superficial friendliness over genuine unfriendliness.
Marshbot
Dec 7 2005, 2:11 pm
I would like to bank somewhere where I only have to deal with patronizing dwarves. Are there any plans for any banks like this to open in Munich?
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:11 pm
QUOTE (Gen @ Dec 7 2005, 2:09 pm)
HVB Gids? Gross. I have stories that I won't put in print about the people I knew there. Anyway, compare the amount of time that you're broke and the amount of time that you're solvent throughout your banking career. Even if the people are only friendly during the time that you're solvent, that's better than having them be wankers all the time.
In dealing with servicepeople, all other things being equal, I'll always pick superficial friendliness over genuine unfriendliness.
i dont want a friendly bank. i want a bank i can trust to not go tits up (no pun intended even though i am smiling while im typing it). its about the money. smiles do not pay my rent.
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 2:12 pm
QUOTE (Marshbot @ Dec 7 2005, 2:11 pm)
I would like to bank somewhere where I only have to deal with patronizing dwarves. Are there any plans for any banks like this to open in Munich?
Yes, but they will be on unicycles and wearing tiny gorilla suits. I hope that works for you as well.
It's all very hush hush and under the counter though.
Marshbot
Dec 7 2005, 2:15 pm
That would be suitable.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:15 pm
oh and the other problem with this wimmins bank thingie. everything is fine, and then one week a month they ring you up and give you tremendous shit about your overdraft even though they said it was ok before.
Marshbot
Dec 7 2005, 2:17 pm
And if you argue with them, they will start to cry.
Showem
Dec 7 2005, 2:20 pm
No way would I bank with these people. It smacks of reverse sexism (they won't hire many men because they need to keep their Frauen-image) and I wouldn't like having my clients pay their invoices into it. The customer is royalty, and I would worry that they might feel uncomfortable, wondering how much of a bra-burning feminist I was.
'Course, that'd be great if you could intimidate your bankers. Though I've heard German guys are really easy to intimidate once they know you're not afraid of them. Must inform hubby.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:21 pm
and ask for an asprin. and wave their hands in the face to stop the make up from running. and you lose interest when you withdraw...(an oldie but a goodie)
and it took an hour for you to bring it up. you're getting old, gids.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:23 pm
QUOTE (Showem @ Dec 7 2005, 2:20 pm)
No way would I bank with these people. It smacks of reverse sexism (they won't hire many men because they need to keep their Frauen-image) and I wouldn't like having my clients pay their invoices into it. The customer is royalty, and I would worry that they might feel uncomfortable, wondering how much of a bra-burning feminist I was.
showem, if you burnt your bra i think they would have noticed before they've paid the invoice.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:23 pm
QUOTE (Gen @ Dec 7 2005, 2:22 pm)
and it took an hour for you to bring it up. you're getting old, gids.
bottom of the barrel...
planetmoni
Dec 7 2005, 2:25 pm
@iceberg slim
feminism and racism are two separate pair of shoes!
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:31 pm
since when and how do you mean that? explain im an arrogant patronising man.
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 2:38 pm
I wasn't talking about feminism and neither is this woman who started the Frauenbank. How does a BANK help further the fight for equality of womyn in the world?
I'll tell you how. They treat their customers equally regardless of sex, and put policies in place that encourage and support women as business owners and entrepeneurs (and minorities).
This is not Feminism. This is preying on the fears of women and it is patronizing. It says "oh poor woman, the nasty mean man banker scared you didn't he? That's ok, come bank with us. We won't intimidate you, you poor weak thing you." And that, my friend is BULLSHIT. It preys on fear and that is exactly why it is comparable to racism.
If you're going to be a feminist, then don't take shit from men. Don't go running off crying to your women's only bank. If you want to win, you have to fight. Men have defined the rules and the game. Saying you can't compete on our terms and win, then going off and inventing your own game is the same as giving up.
Go ahead, call yourself a feminist and run off to your womyn's college, bank at your womyn's bank, join your womyn's only rugby league. All of them will still be bankrolled by men because you gave up and went home.
planetmoni
Dec 7 2005, 2:42 pm
example: a woman is being treated different because of her gender. if the woman has a different skin colour, then she experience discrimination or whatever because she is for example not white and a woman. as far as i know from my studies, political feminist literature (just to bore you) makes a distinction.
Showem
Dec 7 2005, 2:46 pm
Your literature only makes a distinction because it's only concerned with one factor.
You play on the field you are given. If you can, you change the rules, if you can't, you play by them. But you don't go and find a different field.
And you swap bras/shirts after the game ? If you haven't burnt them first ?
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 2:53 pm
QUOTE (planetmoni @ Dec 7 2005, 2:42 pm)
example: a woman is being treated different because of her gender. if the woman has a different skin colour, then she experience discrimination or whatever because she is for example not white and a woman. as far as i know from my studies, political feminist literature (just to bore you) makes a distinction.
I don't get your point.
Feminism is the belief that women have a human right to be treated politically, economically and socially equal to men and the movement that supports that belief. Racism is the belief that a) such a thing as races even exist (they don't) and that b ) one race is superior to another or all others and the movement that supports the rights of the "superior" race over the "inferior".
Racism and Sexism are comparable. Feminism and the Equal Rights movement are comparable. You're mixing up your isms.
My point is simply this. As soon as you formally separate the sexes or the races or any groups, you've automatically created an institutional inequality. Equality is about everyone having access to the same things and being treated in the same way. This gives up on the whole project.
cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 2:54 pm
QUOTE (Iceberg Slim @ Dec 7 2005, 2:38 pm)
Saying you can't compete on our terms and win, then going off and inventing your own game is the same as giving up.
Tell it to Google.
gideon
Dec 7 2005, 2:55 pm
QUOTE (planetmoni @ Dec 7 2005, 2:42 pm)
as far as i know from my studies, political feminist literature (just to bore you) makes a distinction.
some of you're studies were probably paid for by the taxes of some hard working man, btw. there is no difference betwen treating someone different because "they is black" or because "they a lady". you're still treating someone differently because they are not you. hence the dumb bitches who throw a wobbler if you open a door for them - "do you not think i can do that by myself... blah blah di blah fucking na dee daa"
does this mean they will, or will not, give me a free dildoe if I open a checking account?
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 2:59 pm
@cinzia
google competed on the same terms as everyone else. They just did it better. They invented the PageRank™ algorithm, put on a better interface and re-defined the search market. In any case, your example better illustrates MY point than any other.
If you want to win, you do it better than everyone else. If a woman wants to get ahead in the world, she has to be better than her male competitors. Sad but true. You don't win by not competing. Going off and starting women-only institutions is the same as not competing.
cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 3:02 pm
QUOTE (Showem @ Dec 7 2005, 2:20 pm)
It smacks of reverse sexism (they won't hire many men because they need to keep their Frauen-image) and I wouldn't like having my clients pay their invoices into it.
You never know. The article didn't say they wouldn't hire men. Anyway, more men need the experience of having a woman boss.
Eleanor Rigby
Dec 7 2005, 3:02 pm
QUOTE (Iceberg Slim @ Dec 7 2005, 2:05 pm)
Yes, creating separate institutions is a great way to prey on specific segments of society, ensure their is never real integration in our world and it will surely be the best thing for business. I like it.
If there's a market for this sort of thing and there obviously is I don't see the problem. Capitalising on insecurites and inequalites is nothing new.
brokenm
Dec 7 2005, 3:03 pm
QUOTE (Iceberg Slim @ Dec 7 2005, 2:59 pm)
If a woman wants to get ahead in the world, she has to be better than her male competitors.
And her female competitors.
cinzia
Dec 7 2005, 3:05 pm
QUOTE (Iceberg Slim @ Dec 7 2005, 2:59 pm)
You don't win by not competing. Going off and starting women-only institutions is the same as not competing.
First, Frauenbank is not a women-only institution, according to the article. You're not the only poster to have this mistaken impression.
Second, I am really interested in this viewpoint, but I'm puzzled. How is starting your own business, which will have to compete with other businesses, NOT competing?
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 3:06 pm
QUOTE (Eleanor Rigby @ Dec 7 2005, 3:02 pm)
If there's a market for this sort of thing and there obviously is I don't see the problem. Capitalising on insecurites and inequalites is nothing new.
I actually agree. I just don't think anybody should be confused and turn this woman into a Feminist hero. She's a capitalist through and through. What bothers me is when people are duped by saavy marketing into thinking this woman's marketing gimmick is some sort of political force. You won't help anybody by investing there except the shareholders.
bluedave
Dec 7 2005, 3:08 pm
Just read this thread from start to current status and i have to say i have never heard a better argument regarding the failed rationale of Women Only or Men Only or anybugger else only organisations, which do indeed prey upon peoples fears and insecurities in order to present a happy face whilst ripping the arse out of their preferred clientele.
Top post Ice ! Most sense i have read in donkey's
boomtown_rat
Dec 7 2005, 3:09 pm
isn't the type of woman who becomes a bank manager (with power suit) likely/not likely to be just as much a wanker as the type of guy who becomes a bank manager (with pinstriped suit). Sure, if theres a market that fine, go for it - I just don't get the natural assumption that the woman bank manager will be nice.
Muslim banks and banking products exist which seems fine too IMO
Iceberg Slim
Dec 7 2005, 3:10 pm
Honestly, I give up. I am a white male born in a western industrialized state. I am in the best of all possible positions for success in this world. If you don't see how this type of thing plays into the relegation of women to second-class roles in society, then go bank with them.
The competition is not between banks or bank owners, it's between male domination and women's struggle for equal rights. Don't confuse the two and think about the economic consequences of these types of systems in a society where capital is controlled by men and male-dominated institutions.
good luck.
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