Hi,
I just discovered this forum whilst needing to find out which pubs were showing football last Saturday.
Anyway, I was wondering whether any of the representatives of the main football viewing pubs will commit to getting in HDTV for the World Cup. The difference in quality, especially on projectors is like night and day, and given the fact that Premiere just started their service on Saturday (December 3rd 2005) it will certainly be a point that many football fans will consider. I don't know whether the BBC/ITV/Sky will be ready in time for the World Cup.
According to an article in DigitalSpy (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds26508.html) the rollout will not be until April 2006 which is cutting things a little tight.
Anybody got any thoughts on this,
Cheers,
Dezzz.
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Pubs commiting to HDTV during the World Cup
too expensive for most bars. quality of the image is better, but after a couple of beers most punters will not place that above other issues, such as being around friends etc. premieres plan is to have a couple of hundred bars kitted out with this technology. how that is going to take place i dont know. the price of the cabeling is enough to make me go green.
Things I Absolutely Don't Need In Life
- HDTV. The picture's good enough now!
- Giant Plasma / LCD televisions. What for? TV is crap anyway. Movies nowadays suck.
- Mobile phones with a camera/video/MP3 player built in. I just wanna make a phone call. That's it.
- A freakin' Blackberry. So I can be tethered to work 24/7? No way.
etc. etc. All this "technology" is just to get us hooked on more and more expensive gadgetry we do not need. 350 Euros for an I-Pod? What for?
Stop the madness!
- HDTV. The picture's good enough now!
- Giant Plasma / LCD televisions. What for? TV is crap anyway. Movies nowadays suck.
- Mobile phones with a camera/video/MP3 player built in. I just wanna make a phone call. That's it.
- A freakin' Blackberry. So I can be tethered to work 24/7? No way.
etc. etc. All this "technology" is just to get us hooked on more and more expensive gadgetry we do not need. 350 Euros for an I-Pod? What for?
Stop the madness!
Sky will be lauching a premium HDTV package in 2006 to coincide with the launch of HDTV services.
However, ITV and BBC are more likely to show live Worls Cup game, not Sky.
The BBC are only trialling HDTV next year, so I doubt there will be much content universally available:
not sure about ITV but they seem to be lacking behind everyone at the moment.
The decisive factor will not really be whether broadcasters are able to broadcast in HDTV but whether ARD/ZDF (iirc), who will be covering the games, will be recording in HDTV, as the matches have to be shot in HDTV technology to be able to broadcast in HDTV.
QUOTE
Sky outlines programmes in HD lineup
Tuesday, November 22 2005, 11:29 GMT -- by Neil Wilkes
[img]http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/satellite/library/160x120_sky_hd_demo20051121.jpg[/img]Sky has revealed more details of the content in its upcoming HDTV lineup at the first live satellite demo of the service.
Although the major details - a firm launch date and pricing - are still to be confirmed, the broadcaster has announced more specifics on what to expect from the HD channel lineup.
Sky Sports HD will be spearheaded by HD coverage of live Premiership football games and Premiership rugby union and will also include Live Test and One-Day international matches played in England.
Sky Movies HD will comprise two channels dedicated to films broadcast in HD. Confirmed movies on the launch slate include Kill Bill: Vol 1, Spider-Man 2 and Big Fish. In addition, "up to ten extra movies a week" will be available in HD via Sky Box Office.
Sky One will be simulcast in HD on the service. Some programmes, mostly US imports, will air in HD where available while others may be upped from the SD format to improve picture quality. Series confirmed for HD include 24, Rescue Me, Bones, Over There, Stargate and Stargate Atlantis, as well as original show Final Chance To Save, which has just been commissioned for a second series.
Similarly, Artsworld will simulcast in HD from launch. Confirmed HD performances for 2006 include The Marriage of Figaro, Othello, The Who Live at the Isle of Wight, Jimi Hendrix Live at the Isle of Wight Festival and Anthony Minghella Directs Madam Butterfly.
Other broadcasters are expected to launch new channels as part of the service; among those planning HD offerings are Discovery, National Geographic and the BBC.
Speaking at the event, sales director Brian Sullivan appeared to contradict previous reports that the HD service would be aimed at a high-end audience, insisting that Sky HD would be a "mass market offering from day one".
With the product likely for an April 2006 launch, rival operator Telewest is now set to get a jump in the HD consumer market. The cable operator, shortly to merge with NTL, will begin rollout of its HD offering in January.
Tuesday, November 22 2005, 11:29 GMT -- by Neil Wilkes
[img]http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/satellite/library/160x120_sky_hd_demo20051121.jpg[/img]Sky has revealed more details of the content in its upcoming HDTV lineup at the first live satellite demo of the service.
Although the major details - a firm launch date and pricing - are still to be confirmed, the broadcaster has announced more specifics on what to expect from the HD channel lineup.
Sky Sports HD will be spearheaded by HD coverage of live Premiership football games and Premiership rugby union and will also include Live Test and One-Day international matches played in England.
Sky Movies HD will comprise two channels dedicated to films broadcast in HD. Confirmed movies on the launch slate include Kill Bill: Vol 1, Spider-Man 2 and Big Fish. In addition, "up to ten extra movies a week" will be available in HD via Sky Box Office.
Sky One will be simulcast in HD on the service. Some programmes, mostly US imports, will air in HD where available while others may be upped from the SD format to improve picture quality. Series confirmed for HD include 24, Rescue Me, Bones, Over There, Stargate and Stargate Atlantis, as well as original show Final Chance To Save, which has just been commissioned for a second series.
Similarly, Artsworld will simulcast in HD from launch. Confirmed HD performances for 2006 include The Marriage of Figaro, Othello, The Who Live at the Isle of Wight, Jimi Hendrix Live at the Isle of Wight Festival and Anthony Minghella Directs Madam Butterfly.
Other broadcasters are expected to launch new channels as part of the service; among those planning HD offerings are Discovery, National Geographic and the BBC.
Speaking at the event, sales director Brian Sullivan appeared to contradict previous reports that the HD service would be aimed at a high-end audience, insisting that Sky HD would be a "mass market offering from day one".
With the product likely for an April 2006 launch, rival operator Telewest is now set to get a jump in the HD consumer market. The cable operator, shortly to merge with NTL, will begin rollout of its HD offering in January.
However, ITV and BBC are more likely to show live Worls Cup game, not Sky.
The BBC are only trialling HDTV next year, so I doubt there will be much content universally available:
QUOTE
BBC to trial HD broadcasts in 2006
Tuesday, November 8 2005, 09:22 GMT -- by Neil Wilkes
[img]http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/library/160x120_bbc_janabennett01.jpg[/img]The BBC will simulcast some of its most popular programmes in the HD format from next year, it was announced today.
Under the plans, "highlights" of BBC One's primetime schedule will air in HD to a limited audience of early adopters.
The twelve month trial will involve all three platforms - satellite, cable and terrestrial - as and when the respective HDTV services launch. Sky is expected to be first off the block with a premium HDTV launch in April while the newly-merged NTL and Telewest will follow at the end of 2006.
The BBC is applying to Ofcom for temporary use of an unused terrestrial frequency currently not allocated to broadcasters and unsuitable for conventional broadcast use in order to trial HDTV via Freeview in the London area.
"From colour and widescreen to digital radio and television, the BBC has always been at the forefront of innovations in broadcasting," said director of television, Jana Bennett, who will unveil details of the trial tonight. "Our promise to our licence payers is to give them the highest quality television, so the time is right for the BBC to get involved in high definition.
"High definition may take time to grow in Britain, but as with the other technologies we helped to build, the BBC wants to prepare now to be able to deliver the benefits of HD to all its licence payers in the long term."
Seetha Kumar, commissioner of the Africa Lives on the BBC season, is overseeing the project.
Tuesday, November 8 2005, 09:22 GMT -- by Neil Wilkes
[img]http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/library/160x120_bbc_janabennett01.jpg[/img]The BBC will simulcast some of its most popular programmes in the HD format from next year, it was announced today.
Under the plans, "highlights" of BBC One's primetime schedule will air in HD to a limited audience of early adopters.
The twelve month trial will involve all three platforms - satellite, cable and terrestrial - as and when the respective HDTV services launch. Sky is expected to be first off the block with a premium HDTV launch in April while the newly-merged NTL and Telewest will follow at the end of 2006.
The BBC is applying to Ofcom for temporary use of an unused terrestrial frequency currently not allocated to broadcasters and unsuitable for conventional broadcast use in order to trial HDTV via Freeview in the London area.
"From colour and widescreen to digital radio and television, the BBC has always been at the forefront of innovations in broadcasting," said director of television, Jana Bennett, who will unveil details of the trial tonight. "Our promise to our licence payers is to give them the highest quality television, so the time is right for the BBC to get involved in high definition.
"High definition may take time to grow in Britain, but as with the other technologies we helped to build, the BBC wants to prepare now to be able to deliver the benefits of HD to all its licence payers in the long term."
Seetha Kumar, commissioner of the Africa Lives on the BBC season, is overseeing the project.
not sure about ITV but they seem to be lacking behind everyone at the moment.
The decisive factor will not really be whether broadcasters are able to broadcast in HDTV but whether ARD/ZDF (iirc), who will be covering the games, will be recording in HDTV, as the matches have to be shot in HDTV technology to be able to broadcast in HDTV.
there will be HDTV broadcasts. this is a prestige product getting massive backing from phillips who are - yet again - leaders in this technology.
I thought that as most pubs with LCD, plama screens or a projector are HD ready then a satellite receiver costing about 200 Euro was hardly a massive outlay for such a massive upgrade in viewing pleasure. I guess most folk who haven't seen HDTV can't imagine the difference in quality. Current Digital TV is worse than analogue for getting texture in a sports picture - next time you watch a football game - get up close and look at the grass - just a furry maze of green...now go into a shop and compare HDTV !!! Most of the problem comes from the fact that the providers (e.g. Sky and Premiere) are compressing too much into each transponder on the satellite - movies are generally OK but sports - forget it.
Cheers,
Dezzz.
Cheers,
Dezzz.
SKY are "requesting" HDTV for the World Cup games from the BBC but do not have permisson granted yet. But the games will indeed be filmed in HDTV for sure.
its not just the reciever the pub needs a new beamer, a better quality screen and if there is too much of a distance from reciever to projector then a booster. few pubs use a flatscreen. it doesnt come cheap. compression rate on sports is usualy very good btw, as suddenmovements need less compression otherwise there are too many artifacts. dont trash digital pictures theres none of that good old fashioned analouge capping of colours which used to destroy picture brightness and conrast. i dont think hdtv is going to move untill the price is down.
excuse me for living in the 19th century but WTF is HDTV?
EDIT: ok I just googled and found out it means high definition television
EDIT: ok I just googled and found out it means high definition television
QUOTE (boomtown_rat @ Dec 5 2005, 4:42 pm) 
excuse me for living in the 19th century but WTF is HDTV?
EDIT: ok I just googled and found out it means high definition television
EDIT: ok I just googled and found out it means high definition television
you are living proof of why it may remain a niche product for the next five years. (i dont mean that badly, most people who can afford the upgrade dont see why they should)
QUOTE
i dont mean that badly
no bad intention assumed. I agree
I only got around to buying a DVD player last week!
I've seen it, it's been in the States for a couple years and my brother has it on his 37 foot television that takes up his entire living room.
I can live without it juuuuust fine.
EDIT: and btw anything I ever bought with the Philips name on it has been utter crap. Never again.
I can live without it juuuuust fine.
EDIT: and btw anything I ever bought with the Philips name on it has been utter crap. Never again.
Good point gideon...that's why we go down to the pub with all the expensive gizmos !!! Everybody pays through the glass ;-)
I will certainly be hunting down the pubs with HDTV for next year irrespective of language broadcast. ARD and ZDF are certainly providing 16:9 and HDTV.
Oh, BTW most new beamers (over the last 24 months) have the necessary HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) connection necessary for HDTV. A top model from Sony (VPL-HS50) or Panasonic (PT-AE900E) runs out at between 1,500 and 2,000 Euros which for a pub is tax deductible. I pesonally will wait until the price of the LCD screens come down AND the quality is up there with the best CRT television (still far better for traditional output than Plasma or LCD) - apart from the fact that I just bought a new TV 18 months ago.
Anyway, I was working down in Austria for the last 6 months and one of the pubs had an interesting sideshow - online betting during the game - brought lots of clientelle in during the Champions league games.
Cheers,
Dezzz.
I will certainly be hunting down the pubs with HDTV for next year irrespective of language broadcast. ARD and ZDF are certainly providing 16:9 and HDTV.
Oh, BTW most new beamers (over the last 24 months) have the necessary HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) connection necessary for HDTV. A top model from Sony (VPL-HS50) or Panasonic (PT-AE900E) runs out at between 1,500 and 2,000 Euros which for a pub is tax deductible. I pesonally will wait until the price of the LCD screens come down AND the quality is up there with the best CRT television (still far better for traditional output than Plasma or LCD) - apart from the fact that I just bought a new TV 18 months ago.
Anyway, I was working down in Austria for the last 6 months and one of the pubs had an interesting sideshow - online betting during the game - brought lots of clientelle in during the Champions league games.
Cheers,
Dezzz.
Ami58 - Phillips - I certainly agree with that - Never again will I buy Phillips !!!
I'm not going to get HDTV for The Arc - even if it is available
Nothing is High definition anyway once you've had too much to drink. Also, I would rather invest in getting another TV or another receiver to show more games, rather than HDTV if I was going to outlay that sort of cash.
Nothing is High definition anyway once you've had too much to drink. Also, I would rather invest in getting another TV or another receiver to show more games, rather than HDTV if I was going to outlay that sort of cash.
QUOTE (ami58 @ Dec 5 2005, 3:54 pm)
- Giant Plasma / LCD televisions. What for? TV is crap anyway. Movies nowadays suck.
They've got these newfangled devices which will play only the movies you like. I've got my heart set on a nice top-loading BetaMax VCR for christmas!
what i know about hdtv and film industry, hdtv is coming. there are still debates within the tv engineers (whatever you call them) and the post production houses but it is expected that in the next 5 yrs all cinemas will be hdtv. the pic quality is amazing and please see it first, then decide whether pic quality does not matter that much. the film making process will be revolutionised as filming with a hd camera is different.
Although I am sure it is great for films, there are so few decent films being made these days that it doesn't matter. Kind of a one plot fits all variety nowadays. Same story, same effects, different overpaid prima donna actor twats.
As for sport, although I am sure it looks better, after 10 bottles of Augustiner I really don't think I'd care anymore. Besides it's the atmosphere that really makes watching sport in pubs so much fun. If I had a choice between a bar with HDTV and a bar with some atmosphere, I'd chose the latter of the 2 any day of the week.
As for sport, although I am sure it looks better, after 10 bottles of Augustiner I really don't think I'd care anymore. Besides it's the atmosphere that really makes watching sport in pubs so much fun. If I had a choice between a bar with HDTV and a bar with some atmosphere, I'd chose the latter of the 2 any day of the week.
Bloody Luddites.
Your parents and grandparents were the ones saying that motor cars/telephone/colour TV/mobile phones/ air travel would never catch on.
HDTV is no cure for cancer. It will not make you happier. It will not make you sexier. It's just a better image so why slag it off? Just embrace change and the fact that they are making things better. Surely it is natural human/consumer/capitalist instinct to improve on the present.
I have seen a bit of HDTV and it is very good.
Or maybe we should have all been happy with 8 Track in our cars?
Your parents and grandparents were the ones saying that motor cars/telephone/colour TV/mobile phones/ air travel would never catch on.
HDTV is no cure for cancer. It will not make you happier. It will not make you sexier. It's just a better image so why slag it off? Just embrace change and the fact that they are making things better. Surely it is natural human/consumer/capitalist instinct to improve on the present.
I have seen a bit of HDTV and it is very good.
Or maybe we should have all been happy with 8 Track in our cars?
QUOTE (Johnny English @ Dec 6 2005, 1:23 pm)
Or maybe we should have all been happy with 8 Track in our cars?
owww that would be cool!
hdtv has been doddering around for years. i saw my first transmition about 8 or nine years ago (janus film production of sir georg solti - if you must know) yep picture is cool. where hdtv does bite the tv industry in the bum is the fact that the picture is too good. productions of events and sports doesnt really make a difference whether SD or HD. but everything else has have cinematic production values and budgets to look good on a HD screen. at the mo a soap oera or drama can have a set which is stuck together with chewing gum, you wont see the shoddyness of it. but in hd you will. films are being now shot digitaly - although not HD but with a greater pixel count. the advantages to the movie business are fucking enourmous. no more film processing and transference (with the corresponding loss of quality), quick multiple masters - ie for dvd standard broadcast etc - and copies (a third of a movies budget can be marketing and film coping), and the ability to transmit film copies to cinemas around the world within an instant. the first digital projection cinemas are already being used/tested. so there are some barriers to the introduction of hdtv. in the states it's done well, but a nstc picture is a piece of doggie do compared to pal. i dont think it will shift fast and well for a couple of years when the price of the equipment comes down.
Don't know about NTSC vs. PAL.
I thought one had a higher frame per second and the other had a higher number of pixels boradcast. It is a give and take for quality. Both have their benefits. And wouldn't HDTV just boost the advantages for NTSC? I know from a quick search that NTSC and PAL will no longer really exist, but the resolutions will be standard, but the frame rate will be either 50 or 60 Hz. Therefore NTSC countries will have the advantage of more frames per second and the same resolution. These are questions, by an admitted novice.
I thought one had a higher frame per second and the other had a higher number of pixels boradcast. It is a give and take for quality. Both have their benefits. And wouldn't HDTV just boost the advantages for NTSC? I know from a quick search that NTSC and PAL will no longer really exist, but the resolutions will be standard, but the frame rate will be either 50 or 60 Hz. Therefore NTSC countries will have the advantage of more frames per second and the same resolution. These are questions, by an admitted novice.
QUOTE (brokenm @ Dec 6 2005, 3:10 pm)
Don't know about NTSC vs. PAL.
I thought one had a higher frame per second and the other had a higher number of pixels boradcast. It is a give and take for quality. Both have their benefits. And wouldn't HDTV just boost the advantages for NTSC? As you will now have a higher resolution than PAL and frame rate? These are questions, by an admitted novice.
I thought one had a higher frame per second and the other had a higher number of pixels boradcast. It is a give and take for quality. Both have their benefits. And wouldn't HDTV just boost the advantages for NTSC? As you will now have a higher resolution than PAL and frame rate? These are questions, by an admitted novice.
ntsc has no benefits. its crap. the frame rate is two high leading to all sorts of problems when dealing with film transference due to drop frame calculations, and its pixel count is shit, especialy in the horizontal. to be honest your eye can not tell the differnce between 29/30 frames a sec and 25 and 24 (ntsc, pal and film). your eye can though see the difference between 640 x 480, 720 x 576, 1920 x 1080 and 3656 x 2664 pixels (again ntsc, pal, hdtv and a film format) your noticable quality comes from the pixels not the frame rate. therefore although the logic is more is more, its really barking up the wrong tree. taking a 24 frame film second and cramming it into 30 causes loss of quality.
Thanks! As I said, I do not know enough on this subject and would like to be better informed.
Interesting site which also describes another important advantage that PAL because of the resolution.
"By all odds, the major difference in performance among NTSC, PAL, and SECAM is the superior horizontal resolution of the latter systems. This arises from two causes: more fundamentally from the wider channels (7 and 8 MHz) used, with correspondingly wider video bandwidths (variously set at 5.5, 6, and 6.5 MHz); less fundamentally from the lower frame rate (25 frames per second) which in turn has the deleterious effect of increasing their susceptibility to flicker problems. These comparisons prompt a strictly personal view of the ways in which the NTSC standards could be improved, if we had it to do over again."
"The most widely used system of color television, PAL, employs a chrominance subcarrier, frequency interleaving of luminance and chrominance components, the constant luniinance principle - all taken from the NTSC scheme. The major differences are that, in PAL, the phase of the color components is reversed from line to line, with corresponding reversal at the receiver, and that simple color-difference signals are used in place of the NTSC I and Q signals. The effect is to achieve more accurate color values in the presence of multipath and some other types of interference and to reduce quadrature crosstalk. "
Interesting site which also describes another important advantage that PAL because of the resolution.
"By all odds, the major difference in performance among NTSC, PAL, and SECAM is the superior horizontal resolution of the latter systems. This arises from two causes: more fundamentally from the wider channels (7 and 8 MHz) used, with correspondingly wider video bandwidths (variously set at 5.5, 6, and 6.5 MHz); less fundamentally from the lower frame rate (25 frames per second) which in turn has the deleterious effect of increasing their susceptibility to flicker problems. These comparisons prompt a strictly personal view of the ways in which the NTSC standards could be improved, if we had it to do over again."
"The most widely used system of color television, PAL, employs a chrominance subcarrier, frequency interleaving of luminance and chrominance components, the constant luniinance principle - all taken from the NTSC scheme. The major differences are that, in PAL, the phase of the color components is reversed from line to line, with corresponding reversal at the receiver, and that simple color-difference signals are used in place of the NTSC I and Q signals. The effect is to achieve more accurate color values in the presence of multipath and some other types of interference and to reduce quadrature crosstalk. "
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