Germany's World War II heroes

After I finished watching 5 out of the 12 sequels of ‘Band of Brothers’, (a war movie which glorifies the sacrifices of American soldiers during the 2nd world war), I could not help but wonder about the ordinary men of Germany who fought during the war. Not all of them were devious devils; many or most of them would be ordinary men who did what they were told to (or they had to). They loved their country; they fought for their country and died. But none of them are being remembered, honoured for their devotion. They too must have fears and families like the Americans or British soldiers who fought in the war. All in these years here I saw just one War Memorial (Denkmal) near the Neufarhn bahnhof which remembers the German war heroes and mourns their death. Nothing else! I feel it’s injustice in the part of the historians to avoid the world & choices a German soldier had during the war.

Every german village I've ever been in has it's own war memorial.

There is a big memorial for German war dead (civilian and military) near the old Baverian Army Museum (Residenz garten).

It's where the tomb of the unknown soldier is.

Nah every town has one. Understandably they cant really put as much behind it as the allies can "fighting for a good cause / freedom" and all that, but the sacrifices are nevertheless still honoured. WW2 and 1 and usually at the same memorial.

Speaking of that show, there's a part in the final episode where a German officer addresses his men after the latter's capitulation and thanks them for their bravery in impossible odds, among other things, and for being a "band of brothers"...

But from personal/psychological point of view, I have seen or read nothing which details the fears and heroics of a German soldier. What were their motivations? Their apprehensions. Did they wish to go and freeze in Russian winters? How did they feel about the nature of the war they were fighting? How inspired were they? These questions have always intrigued me & kept me curious to find sources where I can dig more in these lines.

Yeah, even Americans learn about the Nazi officer (have forgotten his name now) that wouldn't let them burn down the the big synagogue (Temple?) in Berlin on crystal nacht..

There is an interesting first person account of a German infantryman on the Ostfront that came out a few years ago called Black Edelweiss. Check it out.

There's also The Forgotten Soldier...

And because their stupid generals didn't dare to tell their sacred Führer that attacking Poland would be a bad idea, getting France and England all worked up in the process after they ignored what happend in Czechoslovakia. Those sissie generals shouldn't be commemorated though. The ordinary foot soldier had little or no choice and everybody at home was chearing after their first "victory" over Austria and Czechoslovakia. Pah.

There have been some TV documentries on the German soldiers who fought on the eastern front and were captured as POWs by the Russians and not released till 1955. One of the few German novels I ever read was a book called "das gedueldige Fleisch" about a german troop on the eastern front. Highly recommended for both seeing the German side of things and improving your language.

I think the topic is covered quite a bit in german language books/films etc. Understandably there's less coverage about this sort of stuff in the english language media.

, Don't they deserve to be remembered? Options Rating

Quite frankly no they don`t, they may have looked pretty in their totally inadaqute uniforms but they were all dickheads. This I was told by my Uncle Joe, who done a fair bit of Jerry killing in his time.

My grandfather was hit with shrapnal and died somewhere in Czechoslovakia. We light a candle in his memory once a year on the anniversary of his death. That being said not one member of my family talks about this period of time. My mother was 9 years old when the war ended and says she doesn't remember a thing.

I glad such a qualified source as your uncle Joe has cleared up the whole thing.

i think the nearest you'lll get to it is Das Boot, and the series of books written by the author. its difficult to find such things here, although certain books were written in the 50's and 60's they are long gone out of print. (but tats the same in the uk too) there isnt a market anymore for people who want to relive their experiences and somehow gain back some pride. would also say band of brothers does not glorify war, it depicts it as much as (we can watch without puking) it can from a grunt level. no other real axe to grind in it.

@ER

Was your grandfather a Czechoslovakian or a Jerry? When did he die? 'Cause taking Czechoslovakia was a walk-over, must have been much later..

Maybe not in the mainstream but there is a lot of military history literature that covers this area e.g.

Do a serach for Michael Whitmann, a German tank ace.

There is also quite a few books about the U-Boat war, some are written by actual commanders of the boats.

Military history has a habit of concentrating on how they fought rather than what they were fighting for.

Like I said no one talks about it. He was a German and as far as I know he was killed after the war had technically ended. I don't know and I don't ask.

watch Stalingrad, Der Untergang (only a couple scenes with common soldiers), Das Boot.

granted, you will not see anything near, say, Paton, The Longest Day, or the hundreds (thousands?) of films from the US which glorified "the good war" and the common soldier. then again, who won that one?

ironic part is that with time, the focus of the films (US vs German) has somewhat flipped. only recently could German filmmakers get away with films which do *not* overtly criticize the germans in the war, whereas US films like Thin Red Line and Catch-22 took risks in that they criticized the US in that war.

I always thought Catch 22 was using WWII as an oblique reference to Vietnam or I am getting confused with something else.

that was M*A*S*H (plot was based on Korean War, and the helicopter aspect made the reference to Vietnam very easy)

Catch-22 was definately WWII - bombers targeting cities and all.

Americans learn a lot of shit that isn't true. I've spent years replacing much of my "education" with knowledge. The fact is that the Neue Synagogue wasn't destroyed during Kristallnacht for the simple reason that it was right next to a bunch of apartment buildings which would've caught fire. The place was still desecrated on Kristallnacht though it took Allied bombs to ruin it.

A good friend of mine in college has one picture of her grandfather... in his Nazi uniform. She was chided by any person she let see it, American, German, Indian... everyone. Not me. He didn't have a choice but to join and that's the only picture of him that still exists. Remember your kin, remember your mistakes, honour those who did their best under the circumstances.

Soldiers -- especially those who have been through active combat -- see things a bit differently and you get a efel for it in some of Stephen Ambrose's boks (including Band of Brothers. Remember that in war, enemies are imprisoned while traitors are shot.

edit: Catch-22 was Joseph Heller's book about WWII and the Army Air Corps. It refers to two requirements, each of which was impossible to do without first having done the other.

woof.

A walkover for the germans in '38 but the Germans put up some stiff resistance to the Russians there in '45

It is shitty to tease and taunt people about their family history, most families have a fair share of skelletons in their closets. And name me one country which had never started a war..

New Zealand?

India ( thats what we have been taught in our history books!)

Not just Americans BD.

Good Call...

Panzer Ace

iceland
luxembourg
canada
rep of ireland

Ok, I should have said "a war against other countries or its own native people" as well.. Sorry.

Oops. The Cod Wars of 1953, 1972-73 and 1975-76, each time when Iceland extended it's fishing limits. Granted there wasn't much shooting and there were no POWs but it certainly was war.

woof.

But I don't think Iceland has a military. It was the fishery protection service (or similar) up against the Royal Navy durring the UK/Iceland cod wars.

Cant think what war you might be thinking of.

Allen Dulles put out a book( circa 1950s maybe) about the recruitment of officers against Hitler in the German army. It has some sad references to some of Germany's generals. For a lot of them knew early on Hitler would bring Germany to its doom. Not to vindicate them or anything just trying to be objective. When it come to soldiers I try to remember some thing my father use to say. A quote from Douglas McCarthur "No one hates war more than the soldier, for it is he who has to fight its battles". Well some thing along that line.

Another interesting fact often over looked is the Thaelmann Battalion(sp?). They were German expatriots who fought in the Spanish Civil War against fascism in the International Brigades. They were pitted by chance against the German "volunteers" sent by Hitler to support Franco in a couple of battles there. Sadly after the fascist won the war all expatriots were returned to their native country were most where soon executed.

The tomb actually calls only those who died in the Great War "heroes". The plaque for those fallen in the 2nd World War merely refers to those who fell.

I don't know if I can commemorate the Germans as heroes. Hitler had the support of the German population. If it can be proven to me that the German soldiers went into Poland and the rest of Europe against their will then I will retract my statement.

@KZA

I meant decimating the native population.. not quite war, I agree but still. Doesn't matter.

Correct. Iceland had and still has no military. It was British frigates and tugs versus a couple Icelandic coast guard ships and a bunch of trawlers.

woof.

US Army officer generously gives Indian blanket, laden with small-pox. Many Indians die, white man takes land.
Englishman (NZer) trades musket with Maori. Maori uses gun against one-another. Many Maori die, white man takes land.

Funny how in Help Donald Rumsfeld you were saying:


Still reckon America NZhas a bit to answer for over this whole Iraq Maori thing.

Probably one of the worst examples you can drag up. New Zealanders and Maoris are the same country, or certainly were back then! If you have a beef against the British then call them British! If you have a beef against a certain tribe, then name the tribe! Check out some history before you post.

Hey but the current NZ government, consisting of Maoris and other races, is more than answering for anything illegal that went on, which was basically limited to a bit of land stealing, and broken contracts.

no it wasnt mate. i should know. it was a standoff at the most involving a few naval vessels.

I nominate BadDoggie as the smartest MoFo on TT. No joke.

Well I'm sure they didn't ask for a show of hands at the border... "Who wants to go invade Poland? OK that's Dieter, Helmut, Josef, Heiko..."

Sad but funny

apart from the history of the british deep sea fishing fleet in the northern atlantic

Edit.

Here's another one: NZ fought in the Vietnam War. I remember being accused by a German at the begining of GWII that the US had "started the war in Vietnam." No mention of course of the French, the demarkation of Vietnam at the end of WWII or Ho Chi's support by the Russians, again I digress.

Seems like you and Hazza are cut from the same cloth, I borrow from a previous response to him:
*) if it turns out ok - NZ was a key supporter of the war
*) if it turns out badly - NZ was stronly opposed to the war (or not even involved)

Dear holier than thou's,
Before we all rush to argue how much less militaristic than other countries we are, therefore causing a war between each other. We are all the same loving and murderous mixed human race.
Those countries here who claim not to start wars have at least killed/subjugated the locals or been involved in other peoples wars (NZ/AUS), conducted or condoned terrorism (Eire), been created by invasion and subjugation (India, and I don't mean the Brits here), financed and profited from wars (Switzerland and Sweden), invaded the USA and burnt the 1st Whitehouse down (Canada, OK the Brits etc who went to make up the orig Canadians). As for iceland I am sure they would have been more militaristic if they had anything on the island for anyone to be interested in, apart from Cod.

Sorry clear that up for me, in which war was NZ a key suppporter?
NZ is hardly a key supporter in any war, we can only send about 10 men, 5 sticks, some stones, a bit of wire and 5 million sheep.

Try WW1: Location Dardanelles (sp)

... can't we all just get along?

War is bad
War accomplishes nothing
Humans are inhuman
Humans have always been that way.

Every "society" has had its dark period. No one forgets or forgives, that's the real problem. That and organised religion...

Sorry, just rambling. It's Friday.

German WWII heroes?
Adolf Galland, "Pips" Priller, Werner "Vatti" Mölders, von Richthofen (no not the red baron) and many other Luftwaffe aces.
Günther Prien, who captained the U-Boat which attacked the British Fleet at Scapa Flow.
Rommel, von Mannstein, Bock and many other generals who committed at least one of the two greatest military crimes of WWII, either dailing or disagreeing with the Nazis.

They and many other lesser known or unknown fighters do deserve to be remembered.

Fact is that only in recent times have the Germans felt ready and comfortable to acknowledge their own losses (couldn't have happened before the war came down really). The recent novel by Gunter Grass about the German refugee ship which was sunk by the Russians is a good example.
My former wife's family tree contains a young man who is listed as "vermisst in Russland". The family will never now for sure what happened to him.

Rant over