Online paedophiles

I was watching a piece on Nightline (a 60 minutes knockoff) about online predators.

They were covering group called "perverted justice", that seeks to draw out onlines pervs and then set them up when they make arrangements to meet these kids. They then use the footage to "out" the people in their community and name and shame them. Thus basically ruining their lives.

These pervs all thought they were meeting 12, 13, & 14 year olds. There was an ER doctor, a school teacher and a rabbi, among others. No profiling necessary, as they came in from all ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.

It was fascinating (in a morbid way) to watch as they walked into the house thinking they were going to get lucky, and then have reality set in that they were nailed, and in big dog doodie.

Almost all reacted the same way by either stating they were being a "good samaritan", as they were worried the child was home alone (yes most 40 year old men go to babysit 13 year old girls), or they claimed it was their first time and had never done this before.

What was the most disturbing is they lured over 25 men to the home in only 72 hours. Frightening.

There is controversy regarding this "vigilante" group, but they claim that there are too many out there for the police to deal with. As someone with some training in sexual predators, I agree, though the group doesn't sit totally right with me either. The head guy looked a bit shady to me too.

Though in many ways it offers little protection to any youngins on this board, and I'm sure we get some underaged ones hitting the sex topics, I am glad it is a moderated board.

Thoughts?

Out them, shame them, lock them up. I was abused once when I was 6 by my best friend's 16 year old neighbor and then for 5 years from the age of 8 until 13 by my step-father. When I finally realized what had happened I felt as if part of me had been murdered. If anything can be done to prevent other kids, no matter which sex, going through what I have suffered (and survived) I am all for it.

Holy shit, that is really fucked up

Sarabyrd: I am humbled by your strength and honesty, and look forward to meeting you tomorrow.

Can someone who is more computer savy than me put a link to their site up.

The Internet has made everything easier - not only in a good but also in a bad sense.

Some cities have banned registered sex offenders from living in their towns or only in a designated section...like the industrial section, that is not near to schools.

I kinda doubt it does any good, as they will go to where they need to.

A known sex offender just moved two doors down from my sister. Terrifying. They got another dog.

Perverted Justice

Sarabyrd - I'm not quite sure what to say, other than I'm impressed by your honesty.

I do know of people in similar situations, although I am fortunate enough to have never suffered like this, and I agree that these people that commit these crimes need to be stopped somehow.

Thanks 3 lions. I went on their site...and another one is from Charlottesville. AAGGHH!!!

I think it's not so much honesty as rage that has been building up for 30-odd years. But the only way to help others out of their suffocating silence is to talk about it.

I think it would be incomprehensable to people if they found out how prevalent this is.

I also think many victims are boys, and culturally this is not as discussed as with girls.

On my 10th birthday, I was on my way back from our little downtown area with my Dad's newspaper. Some pedophile tried to trap me in an alley and pulled down my pants. I screamed my bloody head off and fought...he ran. But had he been stronger, or me weaker, or incapacitated by fear, I could have been violated even worse or dead.

Big fan of martial arts now.

Hooray for being able to hit back/fight.

@ sarabyrd. Shedfulls of admiration for your courage in dealing with an awful experience.

Sara, I was pretty stunned by your post. Not that it hapenned to you, but that you could type so matter of factly about it.

If you need any more proof that you have survived it, the proof is that you can be so open about it. Most people feel guilty deep down convinced that somehow it was their fault.

Ever since I told my Ma four years ago I've been on a mission. Seems the unspeakable bastard had abused his own little sister when he was 12 and she was 5, and she never knew why she was so messed up. My speaking out saved her sanity, so she insists. Once you realize you are the victim and not the criminal you can deal with it much more openly and aggressively. And prevention is the best protection. That's why I am totally with these guys who expose potential pedophiles.

Lock them up? No way. Costs money. There are as far as I currently beleive, 2 unforgivable crimes - rape, and kiddie fiddling. Never an excuse. Murder is sometimes understandable, those two are not.
Serious, Roman style violence is a good punishment, as is handing over offenders to the family of the victim to do with what they please. Utterly, utterly vile. Some sick son of a so and so attacked me and a mate when we were kids; fortunately, we got away. Unfotunately, the police got him before my family did - literally by minutes. Gutted. Justice was not done. OK, we got away, but he was sick enough to have intent, so should have been executed for the good of society, or put in a work camp until I was big enough to decide upon his fate myself.

Lock them up, but not in solitary. They don't last long among the "decent" jailbirds. Look at that Dummer guy in the US, raped to death with a broomstick.

when I exposed my abuser it turns out I wasn't the only one he'd been abusing. I take my hat off to you;I think it's great you can deal with your abuse so openly. I've got past mine...it lasted for 14 years in total my whole childhood was spent in fear and confusion (my abuser died that was a great relief I abhorred him)...and am no longer messed up about it...though it has taken a long time. it's something I can only talk to close friends about though, mostly for the reason the abuser was a family member and a respected member of our community.

I don't believe child abusers/paedophiles can be rehabiltiated to be valuable members of communities...they are attracted to children; that can't just be 'switched off'.

I agree with the don, prison is to good for these scumbags. I know that if anybody ever messed with my kids I would exact my own justice on him rather than allow the system to punish him.

@SiM: If it were only me concerned, I would go to this guy's work and shoot him like the dog he is. But he's my brothers' father (alienated, of course). It just can't be done.

I completely agree. One predator even asked to be castrated to stop himself and it didn't do a damn bit of good, he still was caught abusing.

However, the DR approach, as much as I may agree, just won't happen. But it maddens me to no end that these criminals get such light sentences.

As this doesn't get cured...lock them up for life...no parole. Why does someone who commits a sexual act on a child get a slap on the wrist of a few years. And then whine about having served their time and being discriminated against when they have to register as a sex offender.

Do other countries outside the U.S. have the equvalent of the Sexual offender Registration?

Locking them up for life? Waste of resources and tax-payers money.. Sorry. The Don has it spot on. Hand them over to the families and let them dispense whatever justice they feel is necessary...

Hopefully Gary Glitter will now get what he deserves but unfortunately it will probably not be the firing squad as his lawyer is expecting the charge to be lowered. Bastard

Crawlie - Think about it this way though, he wont be doing a cushy 3 month stretch in a protected wing. Our prisons are the Ritz compared to anything in Vietnam and he'll be in with the rest of them. I fully expect if he is jailed that he will die in prison.

Any prison is the Ritz compared to the type of justice that I believe should be dished up. Sadly, people cry "human rights" even when we are talking about castrating kiddie fiddlers with rusty old penknives.

This got me thinking the other day what was the UK government doing giving the swine a passport since it was clear he was going to make straight for somewhere where his money would allow ti carry in doing what he wanted.

Far too many women I dated told me about some kind of physical abuse or sexual abuse in their past. Father-in-law, boyfriend, now-ex-husband. I don't want to consider what % of women it is, but it adds up to a lot of guys that should be locked up or castrated.

Anywhere from 25% to 35% of all girls experience some kind of sexual abuse. 30% of these cases are within the immediate family, only 10% are committed by strangers. There are too many of us. Try speaking about abuse with your family members, male and female, and take a strong stand. You will be surprised who all will confirm, yes, I too was a victim. And you may be appalled by other reactions, what with people claiming that children enjoy this kind of attention and the sooner they learn to "appreciate" their own and other bodies the better.

Jesus, they're scary figures. Do they refer to girls/women being abused before they reach the age of 18?

And, to both Sarabyrd and Thunderpants, full respect for your courage and honesty.

The figures refer to girls between newly-born and 18. After the age of 18 abuse is considered as rape, at least in Germany. For boys the figures are every 7th or 8th.

If we accept that paedophilia is "natural" or "innate" and therefore not learned behaviour then it seems to me be unfair to exact a kind of revenge on its "practicers". This doesnt mean that i think they should be allowed to roam free and as gemini has mentioned pilot chemical castration schemes have proven to be failures - probably because abuse itself is in the mind and not in the pants.

So work camps which generate money for victims seem like the most humane way to solve the problem - but then again I think most criminals should be generating money for their victims.

@SIM

I had said if anyone hurts my child that way I would kill them too, but when it happens it is the child who needs you more than a prison cell. Guilt over not killing him actually haunted me for awhile, thinking that in years to come when my son remembers what happened to him that he would be mad that I didn't do enough, especially when the guy only got probabation and sex offender counselling. One good thing is he got put on the sex offender registry in Canada so we always know where he is.

editted...
had to take out incriminating statements

I don't know anyone who accepts anything "natural" or "innate" about pedophilia. It is a cultural taboo across the board (though the age at when it becomes unacceptable varies from culture to culture). (now I am sure you will come up with some obscure cultural or biblical reference, but try to accept the modern day cultural context)

I took a three week intensive seminar for my job on sex offenders, and they described common "stranger" pedophile profile as someone who is socially and sexually inept with their peers, often abused themselves, who uses their position of power or trust to prey on those they can. This person is often the guy (and I am only using guys because it is more common) on the block kids "love" or think is "so cool", because they may have lots of toys, candy or bestow a lot of attention on them. Parents may think this person is " great with kids", but most "normal non saint-like" adults can generally only take so much of other people kids.

What does bother me is what do we do with these people, as it is immensly prevalent (agree with SB statistic of 1 in 4 girls, this is what I learned too). Is this a reflection of our society? I wonder is this crime is more common in the West than other cultures (I have no knowledge on this).

Personally, I would like a separate geographical child free area where sex offenders live. Perhaps have an electronic bracelet on so that they can not "leave" this large area, but are not surrounded by walls. Let them stay devoid of child triggers. And yes, work and pay back society. The can prey on themselves all they want just keep the children safe.

At first I wasn't going to read this thread as I find the topic really disturbing. But after I was told some of the content from others I did. It brought back some memories that still bother me. I personally was never sexually abuse by a family member, but a older boy on the street. I was too young to understand it really. I never told anyone, as it stopped after about a month, and I felt like I did something to make him touch me to. I just become shyer and more withdrawn.
Then as an adult I become very good friends with a women, who was very open about her sexual abuse from her uncle. Her outing him at a family christmas dinner divided the family in half, with the one half accusing her of lying and not understand his touches. Took her a long time to get over that, and she needed alot of time in therapy afterwards. Had become quite well, she slept around alot! She carried guilt that she lead him on. It took along time for her to realize that at 9, you cannot lead an older man on. Since then this uncle has been outed again, as he had done the same to 2 other cousins. Saddest part, not one of the people that accused her of bad things has apologized to her. She had moved on with her life. Even though at 23 she was told because of the abuse, she most likely would not beable to have children, never fully understood why, but she did marry, and low and behold was shocked as hell at 30 to find out she was pregnant (after 7 years marriage, and never had birthcontrol). She is a teacher in a small town, with 5 children now, and has moved on. She is very happy, and I am proud to say she is a friend. She only hopes that her uncle gets the treatment he needs. If that is jail time, therapy, castration, or whatever... anything to make him stop attacking 9 year old girls.

Let me put this plainly: The perpetrators are not the victims!!!
Carm, it is so sad that your friend was not believed. I was very lucky in that respect, my step-father is getting the treatment he deserves: His own family has disowned him, people who used to be his friends now shun him and tell him why. I can NOT see any kind of illness which generates pity behind what he did to me and at least one other person, I can only see his selfish, egotistical and merciless determination to fulfill his physical lust. Waste tax money treating these guys? NO. As far as I know (this applies to Germany), their victims do not receive tax-funded help, it's all provided by registered associations who rely on volunteer work and donations. Health insurance only covers a certain number of sittings with psychotherapists.

Disturbing...

Paedophilia occurs amongst bonobos ... http://www.g0lem.net/PhpWiki/index.php/ChimpOrChump

As for taboos ... didnt that apply to homosexuality not so long ago ? I remember in my late teens hearing Gay Burn (very famous former radio talk show host) interviewing a paedophile live on air and agreeing with the man that the revulsion with which was being expressed on the phone was very similar to that which homosexuals were treated with 20 years hither.

I agree with you - it seems to be immensely prevalent ... I also agree that innocents should be protected by whatever means neccessary - I just think that these are human beings as well. If we decide that they cannot be rehabilitated then if we go down the course of execution then it should be painless - retribution is abuse itself.

Somehow, I don''t think a rational discussion of the issues surrounding pedophilia is possible on an internet forum. Call me crazy.

just arrived back home after a week away on holiday feeling great and have to say this is the most disturbing thing i have ever read

if 1 in 4 women have suffered this kind of abuse then it logically follows that we all know someone who has done this . . .

all respect to sb for such honesty and moreso for not becoming an emotional cripple for life from it

Thank you all for your support, I have been through the phases as victim and survivor and have now become a warrior (which accounts for all the aggressiveness I have shown here). I am speaking for those who have not found their voices yet and possibly never will.

I agree the issue is far too prevalent, I'd even hazard that about 75% of my female friends and 25% of my male friends have admitted to some sort of sexual abuse as a minor.

Still, I do NOT agree with the methods used by that group. Laws exist for a reason, if you don't find them effective enough use your energy to lobby for change. There is a lot of room for error and abuse in these vigilante methods and I don't agree that lay people who don't have to be accountable for their actions should be given that much power.

But many are!...

G

Crazy.

With regard to the outing at a party of an abuser, there is a great movie which was the first of the dogme95. It is called Festen or The Celebration. The plot centers on a man who is upset with his father because his twin sister committed suicide due to his abuse. He outed him at a party and it is well done with the responses from this knowledge.

I also agree that using these methods are not a reasonable manner in which to catch these horrible people. Who knows what they write to get the people to come and meetup. They could be saying that they are home alone and scared to be alone and would the person come and help. You never know the reasons and they also might stimulate latent desires in people who may have this feeling to abuse, but never would act on it. And this may cause them to go on and abuse other children.

@ER - Do you mean 'perverted justice' - I must admit, I thought at first their intentions, no matter how good they are, were a little misguided. However, reading a bit more, they have had 38 convictions, that doesnt seem a lot and for the rest, all the people named on this sight have a right of reply and if they admit their wrong doings and prove they are seeking professional help, then they can have their details removed from the site.

What bothers me is the amount of children that knowingly chat to adults online?

I actually disagree with the way papers like the Sun stoke up hysteric campaigns to be honest (which last time ended up with a paediatricians house being attacked by ignorant Sun readers if I recall correctly)

@BR - Not forgetting the News of the World campaign that ended up with some poor guy who happened to look like someone they had named & shamed and had his house attacked by an angry mob, even when the Police tried to break the crowd up by telling them that he wasnt the guy in the paper, they still wouldnt accept it.

I'd just like to flag up the excellent work done by the Munich charity Power-Child. Set up in April 2002 under the patronage of Veronica Ferres, the charity offers workshops and tools to enable kids to be confident, to recognise bad situations and to be able to get help to prevent assaults.
Another project worth mentioning is this one:

"Do you love children more than you should?"
From the Ärzteblatt

This is the first ever campaign to reach out to those who have not yet offended but are at risk of doing so.
Supported by the Volkswagen-Stiftung, this campaign provides free therapy places to those seeking help.
Welt.de

@Brokenm

The movie you refered to is actually called "Das Fest" and I agree with you - it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. I am still planning to buy the DVD. The Süddeutsche Zeitung has it in their movie-library at the moment.

i don't think they (all) do. some pretend they are preteens too.

Bollocks of the highest order. Anyone who realises that they fancy little kids still has to make the decision to act upon it. Fucked up in the head? Bizzarre fantasies? Thats one thing. Abusing some kid to get your kicks? Thats another thing entirely. Premeditated, and evil. The "I can't help it, its the way I am" line just does not come into play atall.
Comparing attitudes towards paedophiles to attitudes towards homosexuality is a bit of a dud argument for me - consent being the matter of importance. Lets face it, most hetero males consider the nuts and bolts logistics of homosexuality to be pretty gross, but so is shitting and pissing on each other. If thats what people wanna do though, then hey ho, let 'em. Consent. Simple.

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