How and where to get a tax number

Hi,

I have secured a job as a freelancer but was told that I need a tax no for my invoices (it has to be stated).

Can someone tell me how I can get this tax no and where the tax dept/office is in Munich?

Thanks,
Sarah

Have you ever paid taxes in Germany? Ever? Perhaps you were previously employed in a permanent position?

If so, you already have the tax number.

Just look on your "Steuerbescheid" or your "Lohnsteuerkarte".

Your tax number is the same, regardless of whether you're a freelancer or a permanent employee.

If you're going to be sending invoices outside of Germany then you need a VAT ID number (MwSt / UmSt). You can get one of those by writing off to the Amt in Saarlouis.

Bundesamt der Finanzen,
Außenstelle Saarlouis,
Industriestr. 6,
66738 Saarlouis

http://www.bff-online.de/ust/useg/UST_IdNr_.html

Link to the Munich Finanzamt.

Hi, thanks for the answers.

I have NEVER paid any taxes in Germany as I have only been here 7 weeks. This is my first job (as a freelancer) in Germany.

I do have the tax card for this year and next year and the tax cards are for full time permanently employed people. That was what I was told by the potential employer. They said I needed to get another tax no to put on my invoice to them.

The invoices will be made to companies in Germany only.

Most of the websites for taxes are in German and I do not speak a word of German yet. Hence, any assistance would be much appreciated.

Thanks again
Sarah

Write a letter to the Finanzamt and ask them for the forms. You only need to write one or two sentences. Just say I need a tax number because I want to start my own business.

They will send you the forms, but if you speak no german you will most likely have to talk to an accountant about it. In fact, you really should talk to an accountant cause you're not going to be about to do it on your own without knowing German. I have a really good English speaking guy, PM me if you want his details.

I actually have a Lohnsteuerkarte 2005 but was told this was not to be used for freelancing.

I did talk to an accountant who wanted Euro1,000 to do it which I found expensive as I will be freelancing part time only and it seems a lot to pay.

That would be for the whole year though, as far as I can make out my accountant bases his fees on turnover, so maybe it wouldn't cost you as much as he said.

Although you may not have known the word for it, if you do a full search for "lohnsteuerkarte" you will get a lot of useful information
Not entirely true. You only need to register for VAT in the fist place if your turnover exceeds certain limits. If you do register for VAT then it's certainly wise to get a Ust-ID-nummer in any case as many of your (even German) suppliers may ask for it as proof of legitimate trading. If you are trading internationally then it is a necessity to avoid VAT on EU supplies and for EU business. The Ust-ID-nummer is not relevant (or even necessary) outside of the EU market.

Is the above true???

It is a couple of simple forms that you fill out with the Finanzamt. They ask the basics and also require you to estimate your income for the coming year and the amount of UmSt that will be paid to you. You get your number a week or two later.

I would suggest that you call Christina Westphal. She is super-helpful, speaks fluent English if you need it and will probably fill out the forms for you for a minimal charge (she helped me with my monthly UmSt reporting forms free of charge).

No, the "above" is not true. You need to get a new number from the Finanzamt.

It's usually true, at least for simple self-employment situations.. A Lohnsteuernummer is simply a reference number for a legal entity (e.g. person) to submit tax submissions to the Finanzamt irrespective of their source of income. A person gets (applies for) the Lohnsteuernummer when he/she first has potentially taxable income, wherever it comes from. They keep it the rest of their income-generating life in Germany. If they are employed, then this number is entered on their Lohnsteuerkarte which their employer completes and is submitted at the end of the year with a tax return as evidence of income and tax deducted at source. If a person has income from self-employment (either in addition to normal employment or as exclusive source of income) then the Lohnstuernummer is the same for the common submission of tax liability. It is possible to start a new company (legal entity) and apply for another Lohnsteuernummer. This is always the case if a partnership (e.g. GbR, AG or GmbH) are founded as these are separate legal entities, and can also be the case if a single person decides to create a separate trading entity (e.g. "Joe Blogs Computer Consultants") for the purposes of self-employment. It's not necessary, however. In this case two tax submissions must be made, one for each Lohnsteuernummer. It would normally be the case here, however that income from the trading entity transfers to the private entity for the evaluation of tax liability, so the submission becomes much more complex.

The Ust-ID-Nummer is a separate tax number, nothing to do with any of the above, and is only optionally provided on application. It is cross referenced inside the FA with the corresponding Lohnsteuernummer.

Note also that anyone can write an invoice, without being "registered" in any way as "self-employed", although there are some limits as to how much income you can generate in this way. All invoices in Germany must include your (Lohn-)Steuernummer as a legal requirement, even if this is the same one you use for permanent employment. This is simply so the FA can backtrack invoices when they check a companies outgoings to check they are not fiddling the books and that whoever wrote the invoice submitted their tax return including this earned income.

A typical example: As an employed person you go on vacation for a week and rent your apartment to some local businessman who is in Munich for a tradeshow. He needs an invoice for his company. You write the invoice as a private person and include your tax number, as is required. As additional income you (should) report it to the taxman (but can offset costs such as apartment rental, cleaning, etc), so in effect you only report your profit made. You therefore pay additional tax over and above that deducted by your employer as a result of this submission. If the company of the person renting is auditted then the taxman may pick up on your invoice, and wil of course check in their system that you reported the income accordingly. No need for any fancy self-employement regiatration for simple and isolated incidents like this...

Bloody hell, this is getting so complicated. I dont want to freelance for long, just until I can find a permanent position.

Anyway, I will try to ask the other freelancers with the company and see whether it is worthwhile.

Thanks a lot for all the clarification and advise!!!

@YL6: As a freelancer, I was assigned a single tax ID number for Einkommen and UmSt.

Correct - MwSt is simply processed using a single (the same) Steuernummer. But this number is not the same as your Ust-ID-nummer which (curiously) is a different and optional number confirming to a European format, and is required for EU trade, and therefore not optional if you are not trading in Europe. It's basically an international number that other countries can use to trace you via the German taxman (back to your Steuernummer).

I recently went freelance myself - not an expert, but here's what I found out. You definitely need a tax number if you haven't got one yet at all. You are only obliged to collect VAT (MWSt/UMSt) in Germany if your turnover exceeds a certain amount - currently €17,500 total for the year you start. But it's often recommended that you do it anyway, partly for credibility reasons in relation to potential customers and partly because you can then reclaim VAT on your own business expenses. Obviously it depends a bit what type of freelancing you do - I'm a translator. It's also a bit more complicated if you start off not collecting VAT and your turnover later exceeds expectations.

In any case, whatever you do, you have to fill in a form. (Surprise!) It is probably better to get a tax advisor to do this for you, as you have to make decisions about how and when you will make various declarations and give estimates of your income, expenses and turnover - whether or not you collect VAT. You're likely to need the form as proof of income for various purposes - especially insurance contributions - so it's worth having it filled in correctly. There are various limits that affect how much tax you pay and when, and a tax advisor will be able to talk you through this when making your estimates. They also tend to get much quicker results from the Finanzamt!

I'm not very happy with my tax advisor, so won't recommend her - but she certainly didn't charge anything like €1000. If you'd like any more help just let me know, but I wouldn't feel qualified to fill in that form!

As far as I understood while registering last January if you are VAT exemt like myself you have to do the tax declaration once a year and that's it. If not exempted from VAT, you have to collect it and pay to state every month AND complete the tax declaration. So I ticked that little thing on Kleinunternehmenregelung according to which I'm exempted from VAT. This Kleinunternehmenregelung is stating the limit - 17,500€ as has been correctly said above.

I was really surprised that it was ONLY one A4 form, as compared to 12-page-from for Kindergeld.

You do have to complete the VAT form ("Vorsteueranmeldung") every month in your first trading year (it has to be submitted electronically before the 10th of the month following), but it's no big deal to do. Three lines - turnover on the month with VAT income (16% of turnover), VAT paid to suppliers and the difference between the two resulting in payment or refund. If you've kept a reasonable log of income and outgoings (even an Excel spreadsheet will do) then this is very straightforward. In the early months your outgoings are often higher than income, so you end up getting money back, which is always useful. After the first year, depending on your turnover you may onl yneed to complete this same form annually or quarterly...

YL6

Sorry, the form I meant is the one you have to complete initially when you start any kind of new business. That's the first thing Sarah would have to do once she's got her tax number. Obviously if you do collect VAT, you have to fill in the monthly form for that too, but I agree with YL6 that it's really easy - I do it myself no problem.

Hi guys and gals

Thanks a lot for your responses and advice. I guess filling in the form would be easy if one knows German. I for one, know NONE...yet.

Can anyone tell me where to find the tax office in Unterhaching? I live there and am registered there.

Any advice on what documents would be required?

Thanks again and cheers!

Sarah

There isn't one in Unterhaching. The area "München Land" where Unterhaching is is covered by the Munich Finanzamts. Which one you need to contact depends on your surname:

München I A - E Karlstraße 9 80276 München 0 89 / 12 52 - 0
München II F - I Deroystraße 20 80335 München 0 89 / 12 52 - 0 (also the service centre for general enquiries)
München III J - M Deroystraße 18 80335 München 0 89 / 12 52 - 0
München IV N - S Deroystraße 4 80335 München 0 89 / 12 52 - 0
München V Sch, T - Z Deroystraße 4 / II 80335 München 0 89 / 12 52 - 0

You'll note, however, that the phone number is the same in all cases. These numbers, along with many others in the Unterhaching area can be found in The Unterhaching A-Z

Documents required will depend on what you are doing there and your current tax status. Better to ask them (or the service centre) first.

YL6

If anyone is still looking for someone to do their taxes, I would suggest calling Thomas Zitzelsberger.
His English is great and he is a pleasure to do business with.
David

is there a min amount you need to earn before you have to pay tax? or do you need to pay/do your taxes even if you earn a few hundred Euro p.a. freelance?

It depends on your circumstances and income. Typically a single person can earn around €7000 per year before any tax starts to be come due. A married/living together couple can earn twice that if only one of them works before they pay tax. If you already have income from another (salaried job) then you are almost certainly being taxed ("PAYE") through that. Any additional (e.g. freelance) income would be taxed from the first Euro, as all your allowances are consumed and taken into account in your salary calculation. The only exception is the so-called and rahter strange "mini-job" designation. Here you can earn up to €400 per month in addition without tax. This is not the same as freelancing, however, and the company paying it has additional social and health insurance costs to pay over and above the €400 they pay out to you. The intention here is that the mini-job is a longer term low-income side-occupation for example as a shop assistant or part-time secretary.

YL6

Hi, just wanted to say something nice about Germany for a change. I was finally able to go to the Finanzsentrum in Munich this morning and I must say I was very pleased with the service I received there.

The staff were polite and despite their limited English, they managed to help me and I should get my tax no for freelancing in 2 weeks. A huge change compared to the rudeness I received at HBF.

Thanks for all the advice and information!

excuse my ignorance, but WHERE is our tax number on the lohnsteuerkarte?

I don't see anything other than my name, address, date of birth and the date of issue...then theres AGS (!?) and a number beginning in "IV" followed by 4 numbers...(doesnt seem right...)

The Lohnsteuerkarte has nothing to do with your Steuernummer, so doesn't include it. The Lohnsteuerkarte is issued by the council in the area you reside and essentially establishes you as a taxable entity in their region, so they get a cut of the tax you pay into their coffers. A Steuernummer (Tax number) is issued to a taxable entity, which can be a person, a family, or a company. Multiple persons in a family can (optionally) share the same tax number, even though they have separate tax cards.

ok, so would i have any document with it actually on it? payslip has some numbers but don't know which one it might be...

thanks for ur help by the way...

Pretty much ANY communication with the Finanzamt. They are the only people that need it. It's not going to be on any payslip for the same reason it's not on the Lohnsteuerkarte...

Exactly what is it and where can I obtain a Steuernummer, and how long does the process take? Oh and how much does it cost? Any leads will be much appreciated. thanks

Topics merged by admin

You need to get a Lohnsteuerkarte from your local Ausländerbehörde. That would be from the KVR in Munich. It doesn't cost anything and it takes just a few minutes. You need to be properly angemeldet and need to have a valid residence permit. If you search here in TT for Taxes or related keywords you shall obtain more information. Also you could search for steuer in muenchen.de and it will lead you to some more specific KVR information.
In general it's an easy and straightforward procedure.

You live in Munich? Go to the dreaded KVR and you'll get one instantly at the Anmeldestelle.

You cand get the Lohnsteuerkarte at the KVR, but you usually won't get a Steuernummer, until you first file taxes.
There is usually a little "Im a new filer" on the top of the tax forms. After your 1st filing they will issue your a Steuernummer.

Hey
I´m just wondering where I go to get a german tax/social security number. Im an EU citizen and have a job lined up its just that I don´t have a clue what numbers etc I need and where to get them. Will my Irish social security number do here? Any advice,addresses or links etc would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading this
Vince

Topics merged by admin

At least in Berlin, allow a month to get your number. It's been four weeks since I applied and I'm still waiting, and I know people who've had to wait six weeks.

Hi Munich! hows it going?

I am currently having a go at doing my 2007 taxes but live abroad now ( We lived in Munich in 2007 and before) and I am stuck at the tax number or 'TIN'. On our old finanzamt letters, we have a steuernummer but I think the format for this number has been changed now.

The formats available to me are:

My old one from my Bescheid fuer 2006 - xxx/xxx/xxxxx
This one is also on my my most recent letter from them in November 2007

Then we have the eTIN on our ausdruck der elektronischen tax card for 2007 - XXXXYYYYZZZZZZ
Where X represents last name, Y represents first name and Z is arbritary

Then I have the steuernummer field in the WISO software that none of the above numbers fit into - 147/xxx/xxxxx
147 is apparently fixed for the particular finanzamt we use.

There is also a TIN filed that wants xx/xxx/xxx/xxx - Our old number has the same number of digits, but the slashes are in different places.

Any ideas how to derive the new version of our tax number from the old? What to do, oh what to do.

Cheers,

Tom...

Nope? Nobody? Maybe it was too 'stupid-o'clock' when I posted

Guess it was.

Tom you don't have to derive the new number from the old. The covering letter that was sent out with the forms stated explicitly that you can still use the old tax number this year. That's what I did and they haven't complained yet.

And the Steuernummerfeld in the WISO software does fit the old tax number...

I didn't know that, but just had a look at the Steuererklärung forms, and yes: Apart from the "old" Steuernummer (as can be found on the Einkommensteuerbescheid)) and the "relatively new" eTIN number (on the elektronische Lohnsteuerbescheinigung), a third number, the Identifikationsnummer, is currently being issued to every tax payer (so you don't have to derive it yourself). On the forms it says "Identifikationsnummer, soweit schon erhalten". I haven't been given one yet.

The new number will only be deleted 20 years after the taxpayer's death, so lifelong control and interchangeability of data between different authorities is ensured:
Steuer-Identifikationsnummer, Focus Online.

Thanks for the tips.

Jeeves, my old tax number won't fit in the steuernummer feld as the first 3 digits are hard coded to my finanzamt so I can't put my old number in fully. I didn't get any covering letter either, I just bought the WISO software before we left Germany...

Tom...

OK I'm trying to get paid and I am told I need a steuernummer and that I probably need to go to the finanzamt to get one. However the Bundeszemtralamt fur Steuern have already sent me an eleven digit Identifikationsnummer in the mail. Is this one and the same number?