TT book reading and discussion club

@saan -- if you read the book and we circulate the copies of it around then I am sure we can have a day to discuss it. I will happily read it myself and meet to discuss it, but it is difficult to get hold of, and Shocklines only seems to send to the states, so wasn't so useful for us eurokids.

Actually, they will send it to Europe, for an extra 12 Euros, I emailed them to ask. But honestly, we were all a bit leery of the effort it required to obtain it, and you weren't there to give us a push, so we've left it for another month. MizBunce has a copy and will read it, and if she thinks it would be good to discuss, we'll read it.

Just for an aside. I just read Haruki Murakami's, "Kafka on the shore". The reviews say this is his worst book. If that is the case, you should take the advice and read for the next month his bird book. He is an outstanding author. Highly recommend.

No one should base a decision on whether to read a book on the opinion of a professional reviewer. The best thing to do is to read a book and THEN read the reviews to see just how wrong-headed or self-indulgent or just plain goofy the reviewers' opinions are. The best way to decide whether or not to read a book is to read a few pages of it at a library or in a shop or online at the various sites that now make excerpts available. To take a reviewer's word for it is downright silly and grossly unfair to the writer. The best quote on this subject is from George Jean Nathan, a great early-20th century American writer and editor:

"Criticism is the art wherewith the critic tries to guess himself into a share of the artist's fame."

Nice quote. Now I will give you mine. A friend told me this and I love it. Art critics are want to be philosphers..they love the sound of their own voice.

Well, I agree to an extent, but since there are so many books in the world still to be read, then I'll definitely check out the reviews of a book before I buy the thing and then set off on a journey that might be 600-odd pages long.
And if all the reviews I read from newspapers I trust give the book a unanimous slating, then it might be a good idea to pick another book by that author. Which is what has happened in this instance

That was not my point. My point was I have only read this book of his. The reviewers rated it fairly well, but compared it to his other books. They intimated that the other books were better. My point was that this book was excellent thus the other books should be excellent as well.

I won't be able to make it on the 9th! Damn! Is there any chance of chatting about the books online instead? That would be really interesting and perhaps less "captious" ?

Excellent.

And movie critics! The easy way to eliminate over 95% of them from serious consideration is to see, after reading their reviews, whether the answer to the following question is "Yes."

Can this review be summed up as: "The plot (or characters or screenplay or editing or pacing) was not what I expected or wanted or would have filmed had I the talent."?

It's amazing how very few reviewers deviate from this non-criticism approach...

So your saying in your critism of critics that you would prefer them to criticize differently?
No I agree with you to an extent. I find a few "trusted" critics or friends who I share a similar taste with. I use their opinions as a framework to guide me to some of the books I read.

No, my criticism of movie critics is that most of the time they offer no critique at all. For example, the recent movie "Syriana" was roundly criticized for being difficult to follow. This means that the critics were out of their depth; a degree of attention was demanded from them that they couldn't summon up, and so, naturally, they treated this as a negative aspect of the film rather than as a defect in their own ability to discern. Decoded, their critique was as follows: the movie was not what we wanted. Unsaid of course is that what they wanted was a simpler movie, less subtle, with more obvious transitions and connections. In other words, a different movie entirely, one made more the way they would have made it, had they the talent to make a lesser movie than the one they found so troublesome.

really? where were you reading the reviews for Syriana?
The Sun? The Beano?

In the NY Times, Chicago Sun, Guardian, BBC to name but 4 there were very positive reviews. They said that the plot was complex and difficult to follow, but that it was absolutely worth seeing and worth scratching your head over. Did you actually see the film?
I did, and I thought the reviews were very accurate. They encouraged me to go see the film, in fact.

for movie reviews try http://www.rottentomatoes.com/ -- they collect the reviews and average them, weighted towards respected critics, with quotes from all the reviews and links to the full review. Very useful. Good to find a critic whose opinion correlates with yours and stick with it.

I posted a link TT book reading and discussion club, to that Japanese guy's short story in the New Yorker -- he's been in a couple times. Quite liked the short stories. Dunno if I'll make April 9.

Just read Curious Dog Incident at Night in the hospital, liked it ok, am not quite finished now with Life of Pi which I think is fabulous.

I don't want to discuss books online though, I spend enough time on the computer as it is and prefer to have more outlets for meeting people in person. But that's me of course.

[There's some problem with the "Quote" function; this is a reply to Topsy]

I googled: "syriana" +reviews and these came up on the first page. Generally, as a result of the vast majority of reviews, this is how the picture has been characterized.

killermovies.com:

For as much as the film's marketing blitz promotes the "thrilling" parts of the film, Syriana, for the most part, is slow-moving. In fact, the first half of the film doesn't even lay out a discernible plotline.

reeltalkreviews.com:

The road to making an incomprehensible movie is paved with good intentions. Take Syriana, for example.

www.reviewcenter.com:

I found myself struggling at times to figure out who certain people were and what role they played in the proceedings.

And yes, I saw the picture. I thought it was superb; I had no trouble at all following the plot or understanding who the characters were, their motivations, and what their relationships were to each other. After the movie, as is my wont, I surfed the Net to see other opinions and was depressed (once again) to see the preponderance of reviews like the ones above. After a very little while, as they permeate the collective cultural consciousness, they morph into a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby people ANTICIPATE being confused and therefore become so. Crappy criticism is viral; it's the bird flu of the creative world.

Check out the rottentomatoes link that gen posted.
Or go to IMDB.com and pick out the reviews from some critics you respect.
NY Times is always good (although I still miss Elvis Mitchell) and I read the guy from the Chicago Sun (I think that's the name) a lot. And obv the Guardian. They all liked Syriana.
I loved it. There were points in the film where I wasn't totally sure who was what, but it all came together in the end. I'd rather have seen that nominated for best film than Munich (for instance).

edit - @ upquark - that's the bloke: Roger Ebert. I like his reviews.
Never used the Onion for film reviews, but i guess I'll give it a go.

Just for the record, the paper is the Chicago Sun-Times and the guy is Roger Ebert. He's a fantastic critic and very often entertaining. I think he's a bit too forgiving at times, but he's always an interesting read. For me, film criticism doesn't get much more enjoyable than The Onion. Insightful and incredibly funny.

bookman - I'm not terribly familiar with those sites, but if they're internet film review sites, bear in mind that they're little better than blogs. The web is littered with amateur critics who lack the sophistication, background or- let's face it- taste or intelligence to be taken seriously.

what happened to Elvis Mitchell? He still comments on NPR too doesn't he? too lazy to look myself.

don't know what NPR is and too lazy to look it up
he doesn't review for NYT any more, hasn't done for over a year

NPR: National Public Radio. Fantastic news and such. There's a special place in hell for people like me who've listened to it for years, but never donated money. To all those people who gripe about my lack of an accent, please note that Bob Edwards and his soothing midwest baritone grew up in the same city I did.

hmm.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5233387


I do give to NPR. Well I did when I lived in the US anyway, and I should give again now that I've subscribed to... eight of their podcasts. Looks like they didn't get the news of Mitchell's leaving though:

http://movies.nytimes.com/ref/movies/revie..._auth_mitchell/
http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/m...s/media/n_1335/

OK, I just looked it up - Elvis Mitchell left the NY Times at the end of April 2004

um, that's the exact link I posted right above yours.

So Elvis really has left the building ?

NPR rocks! I used to both donate and volunteer to take phone calls at my local station during pledge drives.

I quit, though, when A Prairie Home Companion came to town, and the station didn't think to offer volunteers first crack at tickets. We got thrown in the lottery with everyone else, and I didn't get tickets.

I love Garrison Keiler!

I am the one who was against the choice of Murakami, but that is not because I am a Chinese. I like many things about Japan, and I can also speak some Japanese. I started reading Japanese literature when I was still in high school, but except for a few that I like, all of them are so depressing, sometimes even sick. (As a side note, most of the modern Chinese literature is the same.) Since then I have got this negative image about Japanese writers and never touched them any more. Besides I just realized that I will be in Hamburg for business trip until 10th of April, so I would be happy to skip the reading and discussion this time.

Me, too, although his weekly columns on salon.com are a bit uneven. Who else could make a person proud to have roots in the upper Midwest?

I have seen PHC live twice, so I already knew what I was missing when the pledge drive volunteers didn't get priority on tickets.

thread hijack warning!!!
maybe some of this stuff could be discussed on a review review thread?

Agreed. That old fart knows to get my attention, and that is hard to do. He should be in what to do when stoned thread.

Just finished reading "The catcher in the rye" and loved it. The only thing I didn't quite get is why Holden changed his mind suddenly not to run away from his home. Anyone has an idea and share it with me? Thanks.

I just finished this month's book (at least I think it is this month's book) "The Wind Up Bird Chronicle". Anyway, I won't be able to make it to the meeting to discuss the book. If anyone wants to borrow my copy, feel free to PM me. If you are quick, there's still time to finish it before the meeting.

I've read The Wind-up Bird Chronicle, too, and am planning on coming to discuss it (unless stuck in the bottom of a well somewhere). Are we still meeting at the Twisted Bavarian? Is it still open?

I am in the middle of the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and I'm finding it surprisingly entertaining, in case there's anyone out there hesitating whether to read it and come out to the discussion or not! There's still time!

I say surprisingly, because although you see his books everywhere these days, I was not familiar with Murakami's work before now. And probably would not have tried it if not for this discussion group.

The rest I'll save for the discussion.

I am planning to come next week also -- just got the book on Friday but I am hopeful that I'll be able to finish it. So far my response is similar to Cinzia's.

A Canadian friend of mine was over on Friday and saw the book sitting on my kitchen table. She raved about the author, saying he was one of her favorites, so I encouraged her to come along also...

Sorry guys, I am off for a work trip to Boston and won't make the meeting. I will read the book though, and might be able to discuss it afterwards anyway

I am still sadly in the begining of the book. I actually look for reasons to take public transportation with the hopes of finishing.

The Twisted Bavarian is still open, but I am going to opt for different location based upon weather. If sunny, how about meeting in the Englisher Garten with our fluffy blankets and pic nic baskets. I'm thinkin' red wine, brie, fruit and some bread. any takers?

I'm always in favor of a beer garden (weather permitting), but will that makes us hard to find? I'm in favor of sticking with the original location unless there are many strong objections.

I am still on page 134 of Middlesex, and haven't started the new one yet.
I'm afraid I'm not a very good book club member, soz...

Well, I'm only on page 76 ish...

too little time, blah, blah blah... anyhoo, we are opening the back up just for you kids. I am NOT attending as I got home at 7:00 AM due to Kiki & Anne deciding their birthday party should cover the 8th and the 9th on the calendar... sleep is a good thing.

happy book talk kids.

The book club will be meeting next on Sunday, 7 May at 5:00. Location will likely be the Twisted Bavarian, unless it's really nice outside or something. Note that this day is a slight deviation from our recently resolved practice of meeting the 2nd Sunday of every month. The book will be Lolita by Vladimir Nabakov. You can expect The Police's "Don't Stand So Close to Me" (or perhaps the Stones "Stray Cat Blues") to be played.

Oh - a classic. Too bad I will be busy

ooo, i'd quite like to read that, I've never read it
does anyone have a copy they can lend me?
in return for a helles / spezi, obv

Can I have it afterwards (or if there is an extra copy) I might not be throwing a kids party that day . or I might... but just in case...

Hey, guys, I wasn't in the meeting last Sunday, how was it? Was the discussion interesting? Anyone liked the book?

I hated the book and said so. To be fair, I only made it through 100 pages, but they were some of the most miserable pages I've ever forced my eyes to stare at. I'm going to give it another shot and maybe try another hundred pages one of these days and we'll see if my opinion changes. The discussion was interesting, but did little to alter how I felt about the book. This is, of course, not a reflection of the caliber of the analysis, more indicative that Murakami clearly isn't my bowl of cereal. Or, to use a more Murakami-esque metaphor, his writing is like some sour-smelling, alien mass growing in the pit of my stomach. Two pages later, we learn that this same feeling can be likened to having been force-fed a clump of foul-smelling bugs (which, presumably, find their way to your stomach, though possibly not the pit). Everybody get that? Aliens masses smell sour, but clumps of bugs smell foul.

Anyhoo. The others can feel free to weigh in on this. Mine was a minority opinion.

I'll join you for this one.

Sorry I missed the discussion. I was 100 pages or so from the end on Sunday with no time to finish before the meeting. Glad I didn't try to discuss till I finished the book; the end was a doozy!

As posted a couple of weeks ago, I really enjoyed the book. Somehow I was able to suspend my disbelief enough to just go with the story and take things as they came, no matter how improbable the plot was.

I finally finished last night, and now I feel I should have gotten something meaningful out of the book that I missed out on. Symbols misunderstood, that kind of thing. What did it all mean, etc.? I guess I thought that in the end, some kind of sense would come out, but if anything, it got even stranger.

Same way I felt after seeing the film The Royal Tanenbaums.

One advantage of doing a "classic" -- I just checked Lolita out from my branch library in Moosach. Probably other branches have it too... (although I must admit my library has Middlesex as well!)

just finished WUBC last night, and it was also a bit hard to see the message. Wish I got to the meeting but was in Boston.

Naughty Greg was logged in as me. He finished it, not I. I couldn't get started, but I was sick and with a very short attention span at the time. I'll give it another shot.