German runners are too damn fast for us

Anyone else out there run?

THL and I just did our first 10K run (Stadtlauf) and well to say the least we were by far the slowest of the group. I had high hopes at first as lot of people handn't run in a while. but then I took a look at the time sheets for the previous weeks run and then we knew we were in trouble.

times 20 to 25 for 5K and 30 to 40 for 10K.

Plus it was a waldluaf so it meant up and down hills so that did us in. We got so far behind that they ask us nicely if we'd like to switch to the 5K. By that point we had already decided that. But we made a personal best at 35 min for 5K, but even at that pace we had several people pass us from the 10K run.

We used the Lauftreff.de - to find this run which was sponsored by the Sport Verein...any ideas how or what we should look for, so that we can participate in future run, but not kill ourselves...

Of course end goal is to get quicker, but this almost killed us!

Suggestions?

Guess you just need to practise a bit more and get the fitness up. My mum is 60 and does a 10k in just under 45 mins.

WOW! That is REALLY impressive...

Yep you are right - definitely need to work on speed! Your mom rocks Keydeck!

Any ideas on races we could try? Or do we just work on speed this year and try them (races) next year?

Found a searchable list here. Doesn't seem to be a lot in Munich in the next weeks but there's a few if you're willing to travel a bit.

i dont know of any races for you, but i'd love to do some too! i like to run, although i'm rather slow and rollypolly
so if you want to seem fast you're welcome to join me anytime!

Excuse me while I repeat myself:

Hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing hashing

Good for slow and fast runners. We could use some more fresh blood too.

They run 10K faster than 5K? Am I missing something?

Either way, the average "not-unfit" person will run about 5 minute kilometres over 10k.. so 20 to 25 minutes for 5k seems about normal to me..

presumably the slower people usually choose the 5 km route.

I guess I should mention that Rob and I do JOG 3 times a week... 2 x 40 minutes and 1 x 60 minutes. We have been doing this faithfully for 3 months now...so I would call myself somewhat fit...

I guess we were just surprised that our times were so poor compared to the next person.

Mind you we have not be working on speed up until now...the purpose was for me to lose weight...(cannot get the last 10 kilo off) even after working out faithfully on an excercise bike etc.

Anyways, long story short, we were "jogging" more than running...wow! Big shock.

40 minutes for 10 K is really fast at least in my books...

opps 30 to 40 for 10K and 20 to 25 for 5K

I've heard of the hashing what exactly is that, a quick search reveals nothing!

You do run faster and harder with a group.

So that would probably be running the 10 in 30 to 40 and the 5 in 20 to 25.

Or is that the 5K in 20 to 25 and the 10K in 30 to 40 ?

Type the word Hash into the search box.

Hash

if your trying to lose weight. don't go for speed. btw. so what if the others are faster? after three months dont expect to be up to the speed of longer trained legs. get rid of the wieght first and then increase your speed work.

I typed in hashing not hash, but will check it out.

I based our times what Canadians would run, my sister in law did 10K in 78 mins and she wasn't the last one in. Jon (her husband age 52) did a half marathon in 1:59. We usually don't join Germans in hikes and such because they are in too fast for us.

We'll stick to 5k for the time being and it does give us an incentive to run. We've signed up for a 5 mile run in Regensburg this Sunday but first we're going to run it to make sure we can do a reasonable time (i.e. less than an hour).

There's a big difference between 'jogging' and 'training'. Jogging will make you feel better, might help you lose weight, and does do your heart and lungs some good, and will get your joints and muscles moving, but depending on how hard you push yourself it may or may not improve your condition significantly. It will definately help, the question is how much?

If you take note of your heart rate and monitor and control it through your exercise, make sure your diet is appropriate for the exercise you are doing, and stick religiously to a schedule of runs of different lengths and other complementary exercises, and record your results, then you are training. This will over time have a significant impact on your performance. Some sports drinks do help your performance and might be worth looking at if you get competetive but there's some discussion about their possible negative side effects and they're expensive. Otherwise pasta the day before is the classic athlete's food, bananas on the day and magnesium in your water.

I suspect that a great many of Muencheners are in serious training, let's face it, 'serious' is the only way many of them do anything round here. As a generalisation Bavarians are quite an active bunch, and I wouldn't feel that ashamed at having to struggle to keep up...

40 min for 10k is fast and especially so if you only started 3 months ago! You need to get yourself up to around 40-50K a week, say 5k a day and then a longish run of 10-15k on the weekend (hour to hour and a half jogging). Once you can do that comfortably, start doing at least one fast session a week, say 4x400m with a rest of a lap very gentle jogging between every lap. If you want to get fast, you have to train fast. Try reading a book on running, Runners World is a good mag and Munich Road Runners Club (www.mrrc.de) has training sessions. Btw, 40min for 10k is sort of the holy grail for most runners. The majority run between 45 to 55min.

Thanks @Ulysses and HellesAngel that makes me feel better...

We still have a bit to go to get to the 40 - 55 range for 10 KM, but it was an interesting experience...

Your advice is really good, will have set up a schedule

One things for sure - we need to get "jogging" faster...

It's a pleasure, one other thing is to build up gradually. Never increase your mileage by more than 10% a week. And listen to your body. If you feel tired and sluggish, don't go. Rest often is worth more than a run. In fact, one should rest at least one day a week. The tendency to overtrain and injure oneself in the beginning is very high. And proper running shoes is also very important.

Excellent advice ...Rob and I take 2 days off a week...

only jog 3 x a week, the other times I am on the excercise bike...pumping my little heart out...

i picked up jogging a few years back so i could go out and run with my ex-bf. even after months of consistent training, my heartrate only got down to an average 145. although i felt better and less tired i never got rid of that pooch cause i know i wasn't in that fat-burning zone. the only way i got my pulse down to 120-125 was by walking! i haven't given jogging up completely, but i got my best weight-reduction results by going to the gym (which i had to give up cause I was on the road so much). maybe i should hire ulysses as my personal trainer.

why did you guys start jogging? what will y'all do in winter?

and i agree with the germans and hikes. some seem to think the destination is all that counts. stop and smell the flowers, i say!

You have to run a lot to lose weight. The sweat-training technique is really a fallacy since you're only losing water and not fat. To lose weight you need to run in the mornings and you need to run at just faster than slow and easy i.e. steady pace. The rough rule of thumb is 1kg for every 10k run per week. Having said that the stomach is the last part that you lose weight on. I find swimming cuts the stomach really well. I also find leg raises - point your feet upwards perpendicular and raise your hips - work really well for the lower abs.

The great thing about exercise though is that it cleans out your system. You may not lose the midriff, but it improves the quality of your life. Little things like walking up stairs, etc. become a lot easier.

Yep thats what we have been doing...we call it "wogging" (jogging a little faster than walking).

Keep our heart rate at 130 - 150 zone...

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Background: Having real difficulty losing the last 10 kilos (lost 37 kilos over 3 years) still chunky looking and trying to lose the last 10 kilo! Man its tttttough!!

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Thought it would be fun to do a race...maybe we will leave it for now...totally group of people (runners)

Alas why you can see our surprise at the race yesterday...

You'll find that most of the runners who are still running right now are the more fanatical types. Most people are getting ready for the first snows to go skiing. I will carry on running through winter although I will do a bit more swimming. You'll see in the Munich Stadtlauf next year that there are a lot more people at your level or less. Spring/summer is when the joggers come out of the woodwork. By then though, you should be doing at least 50min for 10K which will make you a bit more than just a jogger. But it's all about enjoying yourself. Speedwork can be a real bore, but it really does pay off. But go into it very gently and preferably not during winter. Warm up properly too. And run against yourself, not the others.

It was our family in Canada that got us into running, and we both found that we quite enjoyed it. In hindsight I realize that it was "running club" ( they asked us what club we belonged to) and thusly for serious runners. It was also our first group run so wasn't quite sure what to expect. It's a differenct experience running with a group (change that, trying to keep up with the group ) ) than on your own. Its alot of fun. A reasonable goal would be 5k in 30mins not up front but not embarrassingly slow either.

I'm proud you for just getting out there, I know how hard it was for me.

I started running in May because I was unhappy with me and because I was jealous that my boyfriend could run a 10km (last year) without training at all and I wanted to run one too. Odd but true.

So I started going out and running on the gravel trail along the Isar and gradually increasing the number of bridges that I go to and back.

Then I booked us into Dresden for the 10km there as we were out of town for the Munich one. I gave myself the goal of 55 mins and I didn't make it. I did it in 1 hour and 4 mins. I am not happy but I'm coming around a bit. It's a scary thing running a race for the first time. There were 6 000 people there and it's tough to find your pace. The first km alone took almost ten mins because of the crowds etc.

That and I think I may have a heel spur or something that I'm getting checked out next week. Anyway, I reckon that just getting out there is a good start. I'm working on the rest and working on my times and I know it'll come I just have to be careful so that I avoid hurting myself (sound old but have already had knee surgery once and don't want to do it again). That said, who's going to be in Berlin on September 26, 2006? We're going to do the half marathon.

@adriana - WOW!

Really encouraging to hear from you...superb!

Its people like you and Ulysses that help us keep going!

Ok, yesterday was only with about 60 people so we really stood out...but 6000 wow, that would have another set of headaches eh?

Gee...I would love to plan for the half marathon, but still have to make a 10k (was our original plan to run the 10 K yesterday until I saw the expected times- ouch!)

You want to be careful, my Jon (brother in law) broke his personal best in at the Toronto Marathon but also suffered from shin splints at the same time.

this was our first run and we weren't quite sure what to expect, based on Canadian times (which are much much slower than German ones) I figured we'd do OK. Well Jon just did 10K in 55 mins and that would have put him in dead last!

Most important thing is that you run for your own enjoyment, training too hard so you hurt your self isn't fun.

The mean time for the Oktoberfest run in Kitchener was 31 mins for the 5K and 54 minutes for the 10K.

I feel better know!

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm still finding it difficult believing that Canadians run slower than Germans..

Me too. What a load of crap. Sorry.

People should run at their own pace and not worry about how fast or slow everyone else is going. I have run a few races since being in Germany (10k and 1/2 marathons) and find I am in the same spot (pack-wise) as I was in Canada or the US. I think (maybe) the 60 people you ran with may not have been a representative sample of German runners, but even if they were, who cares? Last time I checked, the maximum times allowed for most races are very generous (e.g. 6 hours for a marathon) allowing you to take your time, run at your own pace and enjoy yourself without worrying about injuries or how fast the winners ran.

As far as weight loss goes you can lose weight from running (even in the evenings), you can also change your body type/shape at the same time, and (most importantly) you will get a huge sense of self accomplishment by going out and doing it. If you don't change your eating habits to support your exercise it will take a lot longer to accomplish your goals, and if you run too fast you will just hurt yourself... so why bother? Take your time, enjoy yourself, and stay away from the crullers!

It was a local running club so wit wouldn't have been, do a city run with several hundred people and you'll get a more mixed result. In spite of coming in last it was alot of fun and has given us goals to work towards. Today we did 7,5K in 57mins to Mcdonalds home and back to McDonalds breaksfast and then a cold sore walk back home.

Running is very adictive.

do yourself a favour, lose the watch.

Interesting chat. I did the Great Southern run in Portsmouth two weeks ago. I'm 105 kg and was able to do it in 1 hour and 32 mins for 10 miles - position 5,200 from 13,000 to 16000. I was surprised to see lots of people people who hadn't trained but it looked like most got around some how - next year I'll do a half marathon in Manchester and then do a triatholon.

I use to do atheletics (UK school boy level) when young so know that sports are all about body type. I'm not made to be a speed long distant runner..my sport when I was young was sprint/long jump etc. So you have to put your times and performance into perspective. Skinny types will always beat those of us who carry a little more fat (or muscle if you want to be polite).

PS. I walked back to the train station with a lady of 67 years old who does 10k 16k and 40k runs - if she can do it we can all do it...just find your pace and enjoyment level.

Oh man, this is freaking hilarious.. you are running to try to lose weight and you are wondering why you are running so slow. Then you reveal to us that you are running to McDonalds. No wonder you are running an 8 minute kilometer.


Running or McDonalds? May I make a suggestion, stop eating crap like McDonalds and your goals will be achieved a lot faster.

man! 5k in 20mins means a pace of 15km/h. I really doubt that an average "not-unfit" person can keep that pace for 5k. I consider myself fit (at least fitter than the average "not-unfit" person) and I can hardly do 5k in 20 min. but then again, I was never a good long distance runner..

Yip, every day, for years already. Can't live without it.


THL, why are you running? What is your goal? What's this about using time sheets?

Why do you want to get faster? What is your aim? How old are you? Do you have a normal build? Do you smoke? Do you have an injury? All these things play a role.


Depends on your answers.

I don't think I will ever be either, but it would be nice enough to be fit enough to run in a few races and not always come in dead last. If you can do 5K in 25 to 35 mins that not a bad time. The Kitchener Oktoberfest run the 5 k times ranged from 15 mins (which is an incredible 3 min Kilometre) to over an hour. so I guess the moral is to run with a large enough group (over 700 participants) that you'll fit in somewhere.

If your interested the times are here.

Not true.

Weight Watchers which is one of best diets (other than a bit heavy on carbs) out there, incorporates eating out and junk food into the diet. How else do think you keep the weight off long term? Chris has lost 37 kilos (and keep it off) so I think she knows when she is allow a treat. Secondly OJ and Egg Mcmuffin (egg bacon and toastie) are what I would have eaten at home.

A bit like saying that Sadam is one of the best dictators...

Running - good
McDonalds (as a treat) - good
Healthy eating habits - good
diets - hmmm.

Again, what is the obsession with times? Who cares as long as you feel good doing it? If I run a 10k in 50 minutes and you run it in 57 minutes and that is your personal best, who had a better run? Really, if we go through life comparing ourselves to other people...

You see where I am going.

The definition of a diet is an eating habit. It's only that we've come to think of it as meaning a calorie-reduced eating habit.

Er, when enough people 'come to think of' something in the same way, that usually means we can do away with the B.S. "I'm an English teacher" semantics.

Tim, don't be upset just because I corrected you on when DST is. Your petty attempts to get back at me are sad.

As for running, I agree, throw away the stopwatch and run as it feels good. I also found running according to my pulse to be a pretty good indicator. You have to know your regular pulse rate fairly well, but then it all fell into place.

Go easy girl, maybe check that pulse of yours.

I'd like to agree with both Tim and Showem (to a certain extent), my boyfriend got annoyed hearing about times and what went wrong and and and, and so I started running with an mp3 player, I know where I should be (am not so good with pulse rates) and I'm not panicky because I forget where I should be a lot too as I like the music.

Last week I had one of my best runs ever though. No watch, no mp3 player, just me and the Isar in fall and I ran until it was getting dark and then I came back. No pressure, no training and it was fun again.

Actually, I totally agree with you all...

We need to find a balance between not focusing on time / a way to challenge ourselves (some speed increase) and not alway compare ourselves to others... e.g. did we beat our own personal time. Otherwise we may go to fast too quickly...thus injuring ourselves...

Otherwise TIME becomes an obsession...

So thanks to you all for your help and encouragement...

Totally agree with Showem - Diet is another word for life style where again calories CAN become an obsession...so finding a balance is also a challenge...

BTW McDonalds has wonderful - low cal salads which is why we like going there...(thanks to the movie Super Size Me)

PS. @adriana - I like your way of thinking...

Building up Speed