European stereotypes of the USA

Sorry man , the net was on the blink today at work , I meant to say "subjective instead of objective" , myriad things goin on and got my wires crossed.

Philosophically I would not categorize myself at all , Im a tremendous fan of the Greeks but am also into Kant and Schopenhauer - one of my Italian friends once said to me "life is shit and we are full of life" and that has always stuck with me...

I was not referring to social consistentcy , I was referring to moral consistentcy: questions of right and wrong in particular reference to matters of law.

Jefferson had his finger right on the pulse there no question , and thats as you rightly point out the crux of the matter: the ability to question and in particular the openness to real debate in a society.
I always think that there is nothing more heartening to see than someone who has looked beyond their flag , especially a pwerful metaphor like your own , to look beyond the anthems and the bullshit designed to make people lead and follow and to question "WHY". The sad sad truth is that not enough people will slip through the net and ponder those issues...most are too busy accumulating wealth I imagine. We'll meet soon no doubt.
Rob

shut the f... up

edit: im not in a good mood...just got kicked out of fucking nachtgalerie for wearing an italian soccer jersey... Parnell go take out your agression on the tool with the walkie talkie, army vest, (guy who wishes he was cool)

k, jumping out the window...

whoops ! another oversight - i meant "NOT to question "why" obviously". my bad

@papa_geno

The "solving the world's problems" bit was obviously not serious but then again I didn't take exception to that anyway. It was the "monster intelligence" bit that rubbed me the wrong way. I think you'll find that the majority of the people on this board (and I've met quite a few so I am in a position to say so) would be by most measures considered to be of above average intelligence so it's annoying to hear someone say how smart they think they are. Anyway, if you didn't mean it that way i'll take your word for it and leave it at that.

You must admit however that there are lot of liberals (especially in the U.S.) that equate their liberal beliefs with being "enlightened" while considereing those with more conservative opinions to be morons. I find that attitude especially offensive and condescending regardless of my own personal political opinions, which by the way are not necessarily conservative (depends on the issue).

Anyway, if you'd like, we could always tie up our horses and go in for a Dunkelweiss and discuss things...

K--

Believe me, any time I'm going on about how smart I am, it's a joke. Thanks for taking my word for it. That was an early lesson, learned among the shade-tree mechanics I used to hang out with in Oklahoma--never trust anyone who makes a big deal about your intelligence. There's no surer way to get my bullshit meter pegging red than to start a sentence, 'You're an intelligent man...'--invariably, I'm going to be asked to do something distasteful for free shortly thereafter.

Smart takes a lot of different shapes, and I'll agree that the libs possess their share of self-righteousness vis a vis their 'enlightened' state. I don't trust people who think they have a direct line to god, no matter what their politics, so I'm right there with you on that front. Having said that, the Bush administration does seem to make the same claim.

I don't think anyone's inherently moronic. Bull-headed, fundamentally misguided, self-deluding, yeah, but not inherently stupid. In fact, if I were to cite any single source for the misunderstandings this thread focuses on, I would say it was the difference in media--America's tends to be corporate, thus driven by the interests of corporations--either that or rubbish leftist rags that distort just as badly as anything considered mainstream. I do think American media, as a whole, a bit more conservative, and a bit less willing to do the work journalists are supposed to do, than some of the media I have encountered in other quarters of the world.

Just sayin.

Dunkleweiss is always welcome--maybe we get together at one of those TT events someday--do you go often?

@p_g

Sorry for the late reply, was doing a bit of mountain sliding (some call it skiing ) last week...

I go occasionally depending on my work load. Since i'm only in Munich during the week, I can usually only show up on Tuesday nights. I'm going to make a concerted effort this Tuesday to lift a few though. If you're going to be around then we could raise a glass to Texas/Oklahoma understanding (assuming you're from Oklahoma...)

From, no, but I spent 16 of my first 21 years there, so I might as well be, yeah. Pretty much trained the high southern out of my voice by now, but I can still turn it on when occasion demands. Speaking of which, there's a NY Times writer, I think, who once said that George W. Bush spent his time during Vietnam war defending Texas from Oklahoma. Gotta watch out for those Okies...

& I won't even repeat the old joke about why Oklahoma is so windy, as I'm sure you've heard it before. Bit like Aussies and New Zealanders making fun of each other on the subject of sheep: 'Heh--you fuck sheep.' 'Heh-heh. So do you.' It gets boring quickly.

Anyway, sorry I missed the get-together. Busy time, I'm facing a mountain of work over the next two weeks, but I will be taking a break? long enough to be at Leon's this coming Thursday...and maybe tonight, though I haven't decided. Short of that, I've always wanted to do a TT Tuesday, just hard, what with a working wife and a 6 year old daughter, to negotiate the time. That and I didn't see your message in time...

best to you--p_g