Buying a used car from a private party

I've been shopping for a cheap used car lately (lurking around Landsbergerstrasse and reading Autoscout24, etc) and today I'm going to check out two VW Golfs offered for sale by private sellers in Munich. The thing is that both of these sellers have removed the plates from their cars, which means that I can't test drive them. Is this normal? Or a not-so-subtle way to keep buyers from learning that the car doesn't run? How do buyers test out cars when they buy from private owners?

Does anyone have experience with "boilerplate contracts" in private car sales? Where can you get such things?

I know there are all kinds of advantages to buying from dealers - but in my price range, the Landsberstrasse cars are suspicious rust-buckets. I thought I might have more luck in finding an honest little car (and car seller) on the private market...

Hell - just borrow someone else's plates and go for a quick spin. Try harder than usual not to crash.

I definitely would not buy a car that I haven't been able to test drive before. Buying from a private party is fine, as long as the car is still registered.

I bought my car from a Toytowner. I was not able to test drive it, as her insurance covered only her. I thought this was the craziest thing I had ever heard, but my German boyfriend told me that it is very rare when buying a used car from a private person to be able to test drive it. In our case, we know a bit about cars, and she took us for a test drive, and we did some looking down on our hands and knees and ended up with a good car. But of course not everyone is so lucky. Good luck. Them having the license plates off the car and not even taking you for a spin sounds really fishy to me.

Tina

Not having license plates on the car is very suspicious, and not common for a private sale. Ask to see the Fahrzeugbrief (not Fahrzeugschein) to see the owner history, check the last owner is the guy you are speaking to and when it was de-registered before proceeding with any negotiations. If there are no plates, and you can't get to see the Brief you may be talking to a proefessional (or amateur) dealer.

I'd say a test drive is an absolute necessity. Not just that, but a decent drive too, city, country and autobahn. Anyone who tells you their (German) insurance does not cover you for a test drive is lying. German insurance does not restrict driver so long as his/her driving license is valid (although may restrict cover to the legal minimum for non-approved drivers or drivers below a certain age).

YL6

My boyfriend and I just sold our 2002 BMW Z4. The woman who bought it said she was going to look at 2 different Z4s. Both were black with Tan interior. Ours was a 3.0 engine with 15000 km on it. The other was a dealerships 2.2 liter engine with 25000 km on it. Well, the dealership's car was 3000€ more expensive! She bought ours.

But, the point is, she drove our car as did other people who came to look at it. We have sold 3 other BMWs in the last year and each one was test driven by the prospective buyer. Don't buy it unless you drive it.

if you want to test drive a de-registered car, just get red plates from the Kfz-Zulassungsstelle. They are not expensive and include third party insurance.

The ADAC will have boilerplate contracts. There's also one available here, with some more tips in German here.

A test drive gives you only so much info, you'd be better off going to Deckra for an inspection, costs about 75€ is similar to the Tüv. GebrauchtUntersuchungs I think. Can someone correct that for me.

I did that with our car and they confirmed what I already new, that it had been painted, and not in a accident.

We also sold our car privately for cash and used a boiler plate sales agreement, more to protect our selves than anything.

Which brings up an interesting point, was watching the Auto Show the other day and they had a guy going around checking cars to see if they were insured or not, if they weren't the Dekra stickers on the front were removed meaning you couldn't drive. My question was, how do they know? [quote]

Dekra

Wrong. The standard is for all drivers (over a certain age/meeting certain criteria) to be insured, but you can also get insurance for named drivers only, which is slightly cheaper. Maybe not all insurers do it, but it definitely does exist.

As for the plates being off - not that unusual. Just means that they've done the abmeldung, which then allows you to show your insurance company that the car is no longer on the road, after which they issue the proper papers for the new car (not just the Doppelkarte).

I bought my car from friends without taking it for a test drive (it had been abmeld-ed for 2 months). I had to change the brake discs before I could get it home (old anyway and standing still too long they'd rusted to bits), and the alternator conked out a couple of weeks ago on the A24, but that's the kind of thing that you can't check easily and could happen anytime... I don't think I'd have bought the car 2nd hand from strangers though, certainly not without taking it for a test drive, but from friends who I knew had maintained it well it seemed like a good deal (and despite having forked out the best part of 400€ in the month since buying it, I'm still happy with it!)

Even if you have a named driver policy it's usually not a problem for a driver not on the policy to take the car for a test drive.

If the worst happens and a driver not on the policy has an accident during a test drive you may have to pay the difference between your named driver premium and a normal premium, but your insurance cover is still valid.

That's exactly right. A German-registered car is always insured (Haftpflicht) regardless of who is driving, legally or illegally, i.e. even if it was stolen and the thief is involved in an accident.

Oli, are you suggesting it's okay to steal a vehicle for a "test drive" ?

And to think I just bought a MVV Wochenkarte.

Well, you'd at least be insured, but not sure if you might face some other problems.

I would never buy a car without being able to test drive it, and if someone is trying to sell you a car like that they have something to hide. You can always get a Tageszulassung (you could offer to split the cost with them or something) and test drive it that way - straight to a garage to have it checked out by a qualified third-party mechanic. If you did that and everything seemed fine there wouldn't really be a reason to not buy. You'd probably save a few €€s.

In general there's nothing wrong with buying a car from a private party, if someone refused to let me test drive the car, I'd get really suspicious.
Best thing is to take the car for a brief spin to get a general idea and then follow THM's advice and get it checked by DEKRA. The €75 you pay can save you a lot of trouble.

Not wrong. Read my post carefully. Anyone is insured who is driving with the owners permission (and has a valid driving license), but maybe not for the full level of insurance the car owner bought. They have minimum (Haftpflichtverischerung) insurance whatever the circumstances... Sure some insurance providers reduce premiums if you "restrict" drivers to certain people or age groups, but this restriction is does not apply to the minimum level of legal insurance...

This would be most unusual, as an "Anmeldung" must immediately follow an "Abmeldung" or the registration is in limbo and the car has no formal owner. Normally if a car was off the road for a short period of time prior to selling it would be "Stillgelegt" (registration suspended) as it still formally belongs to the previous owner, who is not using it on the road. The insurance is similarly suspended until the car is formally disposed of. If the owner wants to re-start the registration, e.g. if he doesn't sell the vehicle, then this is a simple formallity...

YL6

I stand corrected, and will go and carefully pore over my car insurance documents at the first opportunity!


it didn't seem to be unusual to the friends I bought the car off, or the Anmeldungstelle... they weren't wanting to suspend the insurance, but transfer it to their new car

I think you are just using the wrong words. Firstly, all this is done at the "Zulassungsstelle", not the "Anmeldungstelle"

You can only "Abmeld" a vehicle for 3 reasons - you are scrapping it, you are exporting it, or for "special" reasons (which need special approval and application). Abmeldung is essentially a definitive deletion of the vehicle identity.

You can register a vehicle for "Vorübergehende Stilllegung" - this is a suspension of the registration. You must hand in the plates. The vehicle is no longer subject to road-tax ("Kraftfahrzeugsteuer") or insurance (both Finanzamt and Insurance company are informed automatically). The vehicle can not be used, parked or stored on public ground or street. The insurance company will suspend the policy, some will provide (often for free) a basic continuing insurance against theft or fire. You can cancel your insurance if you wish. A vehicle can be kept in this suspended state for as long as you wish, but if it is longer than 18 months it will need a special technical check ("Gutachten nach § 21 StVZO") and a new registration document ("Fahrzeugbrief") before you can re-register it.

The owner of a newly purchased vehicle simply needs to register ("Anmeld") it in his/her name. This automatically implies in effect de-registration ("Abmeldung") from the previous owner, who has either been using it up to the point of sale, or has had the vehicle registration suspended (above). It is recommended that the previous owner advises the Zulassungstelle ("Mitteilung über den Verkauf eines Kraftfahrzeugs"), especially if the vehicle is sold to a stranger. This requires a copy of the contract of sale signed by both parties, including date and time of sale and absolves the previous owner of any more responsibility for the vehicle, or for car-tax and advises his insurance that the vehicle has been disposed of such that insurance will automatically terminate. The new owner should re-register (or re-register and immediately suspend) the vehicle within 7 days... In this intervening time the previous insurance (albeit in reduced form) remains in force. It's not actually unusual for the same insurance policy to apply to two vehicles, but only for a limited time, the crossover period when the seller has bought (and insured) a new vehicle, but the buyer has not got around to completing the transfer at the Zulassungsstelle.

YL6

Go buy a Golf from Sixt in Garching. You can test drive their cars and the car should come with a recent tuv.

I wouldn't buy a car from Sixt again. We got a car that had been repainted in several places (we couldn't see the difference but the dealership we sold it to later on showed us with their high-tech equipment) because of small accidents that were supposedly under the declarable amount - €1000 damage. This meant that we lost A LOT of the resale value. I realize they don't have to declare this but there was a significant amount of damage.

Damage is the downside of buying an ex-rental car, but the upside is price, usually a good service record, recently new, albeit high mileage.

Just curious - did you ask them at the time what repair work had been carried out? I asked and a minor repair was pointed out to me. Price was good-ish, service record complete and mileage fairly low.

Sixt also told me that it wasn't ex rental, rather it was an ex company car - it started it's life in Holland once it got out of Wolfsburg.

Considering the way 95% of people (including myself) probably drive rental cars I don't think I'ld buy a secondhand one.

And have had no problems to date, 1 year on.

I was persuaded to bya an ex-Avis car some years ago by an ADAC engineer who I'd called to check it over pre-purchase. He told me that in his opinion ex-rental cars were usually technically VERY sound and engine-wise well looked after, as they need to be reliable. They are usually high-mileage low-age, and reasonably priced so you get a recent model at a commensurate price. He warned to look for damage, as when it has occurred it's often badly repaired (if at all). His recommendation was also more powerful vehicles, as they are built more to the hammering of a heavy footed rental customer. I've since recommended ex-rentals to others, who taking his warnings into account (re. damage especially) have been very happy.

One other way to save money on a used car is to buy either an EU import or a brand that is less popular with Germans, ie Japaneses cars for example. We did both bought a Mazda Premcy imported form Italy. Plus cheap 10.000 under list price for new 12,500 vs 22.000 new. Negative, was in rougher shape, no hubcaps or alloy rims, small tear in the seat some stains on the floor etc.

200 bucks for a car cleaning and hub caps and it was looking new. Mind you it didn't stay long that way.

Unfortunately no matter what way you cut it, cars cost loads of money, if your lucky it won't break down much.

Thanks for all the advice here! Since posting I've gotten the boilerplate contracts lined up, joined the ADAC, mapped out the route to the nearest used car check station... still no car, but I'll check out a few more this weekend.

One note on the red plates with third-party insurance included: apparently they're no longer offered, but my understanding is that you can buy temporary insurance separately and then get a 2-week permit (23 euros) that lets you test-drive unregistered cars. Still daunting for those of us who are German-challenged, but it's good to know the option is there.