Fans at the World Cup

I think Bhoy raises quite a good point. Personally I hope that Munich doesnt draw England for any games, but there is a good chance they will. Especially if we go far in the tournament. But I dont think it is just the enGERlish we need to worry about. Us enGERlish tend to go on a massive drinking spree, then get in to a drunken fight with the local water cannons!!

Personally I think the Italians, Dutch, Turks and even the Germans have just as bad a reputation as we do, its just that our are usually the most covered cos there is no organisation to it.

There has already been complaints from qualifying bations about the lack of tickets available for travelling fans. The English FA will only get 8% and this will go to the official members group(The real fans)..

64% of tickets have gone to sponsors!!
7% go to teams that are not participating in the competition. See, Scotland can still come!!

1,500€ World Cup Tickets?

Personally I believe there is going to be a massive problem a lot of fans, not just the English will be travelling without tickets and I dont believe that the Police here will be able to cope with it.

The last World Cup was a massive success, I dont remember much, if any trouble being reported. If I remember rightly they used a softly, softly approach, didnt antagonise any fans and those that did try to start anything we arrested and deported immeadiately. I cant see that being adopted here.

I hope we only get nice teams like Brazil and Angola in Munich. I agree, actually, that the Italians, Turks, Dutch and Germans are in the same league...
I'm considering adopting a religion for a couple of months, so that I can pray for England being based *anywhere* but here.

The last World Cup was hundreds of thousands of kms away. Not a cheap EasyJet or RyanAir flight that every boyo can afford.

The 7 USA fans in attendance aren't likely to cause much trouble

The English do have a bad reputation, but as you said, so do other countries, I just think they tend to go on a lot more about the English hooligans more than they do about the others (after all, it's not just the English - they 're not fighting on their own - it takes two to tango)

I just hope there will be no (well at least very little) hooliganism this time round.

Italy has problems with clubs. Trouble at away matches involving the national team are unheard of.

EDIT: To be fair to the English though, they deal with a lot of provocation when they go abroad, arguably a lot more than other countries who are known to have a hardcore element that follows the national team.

as far as i know, they will be based near starberg, but where they will play is another matter. and if the do play here, dont forget that as munichs english speaking internet window to the world they'll be a lot more traffic here so we should do our utmost to promote good behaviour umongst all international fans, be they english italian dutch or even the 7 americans (who will ultimatly get the blame for anything!)

and sadly media (and others) schaddenfreudige expectation.

Make that eight...

Although it goes without saying that the English have had problems with hooligans over the years, I do think we have improved a great deal in recent times.

I remember watching the 'friendly' match between England and Spain where a fairly large section of the Spanish fans were making monkey noises every time a black player touched the ball. Or the Turkey vs Slovakia game where the Slovakian players had to take corners under a tunnel of riot shields due to the amount of coins and lighters being thrown at them.

I think in all honesty there will be some problems with the English fans and probably the Dutch as well mainly due to the World Cup being played in Germany and the historical baggage that for some 'football fans' goes along with it.

At the same time I hope that the fans are not antagonised - as often happens. Not that they should then react but sadly this is often the case. And with the media following their every move waiting for even the slightest incident I am sure they will manage to report some trouble.

In some of my more cynical moments I have even wondered whether the press maybe pay certain 'fans' to cause trouble to get a story. Highly unlikely I know but with papers like The Sun I can't help being a bit cynical.

Media induced bad behaviour: It's a fact.

I'll make this as brief as possible.

I was fortunate enough to be visiting Toulouse on business in 98 when England played Rumania in the Cup. Officianados will remember that this game followed the Lens game when English fans caused a fair amount of trouble and media interest was high.

Anyhow, on the morning of the game I awoke early and decided to take a stroll for al fresco cafe. At 07:00 I was sitting outside a bar/cafe in the early morning sunshine when three young tired (but not emotional) brits in England regalia arrived after (I assume) a long overnight coach journey. They quietly came and sat near (but not with) me and ordered breakfast. The oldest was maybe 22 - the youngest perhaps 17.

The is true. I shit you not!

An unmarked transit van drove passed the cafe and returned seconds later, parking directly outside the entrance. A thirty(ish) guy got out and approached the three. In the Queen's own English he asked them where they'd come from? Lens? and how they thought the game might go that evening?
He then left the lads and went into the cafe - soon emerging with the bar owner in tow.

I was just rising to leave when I heard him saying that as a fellow England supporter the 'drinks were on him' (this is 07:20 by now) and that the lads were free to choose their poison. I thought this odd but was leaving so I exited stage left.

About an hour and a half later, following a shower and change at the hotel, I was picked up to go a meeting.

Whilst being driven past the same cafe I saw the three kids - wrecked out of their brains - standing/jumping on tables and chanting their nuts off at anyone who would (or tried not to) listen.

And what of the kindly stranger? He was watching - clip board and big fluffy boom microphone in hand - alongside his CNN film crew who were obviously waiting patiently in the back of the van while the kindly 'producer' was getting the lads rat-arsed.

No doubt by 10:30 the 'English Hooligans hit Toulouse' film was in the can and the film crew were back in their hotel having brunch.

God bless the media.

Ze British are coming

and to quote it...

Die englische Polizei rechnet bei der Fußball-WM im kommenden Jahr in Deutschland mit einer Invasion von bis zu 100.000 Schlachtenbummlern von der Insel.

what sort of language is that? (yea i know german) Schlachtenbummlern.

the original in the gaurdian is as follows

Police and football authorities are preparing for a influx of more than 100,000 English football supporters to Germany next summer after Sven-Goran Eriksson's team qualified for the World Cup.

yep this is the media at its best providing an objective viewpoint and not emotionalising the matter.

fresh from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/i...als/4329606.stm

"Schlachtenbummler" is a standard German term for "external football supporter", i.e. not offensive nor pertaining to the British in particular.

thanks oli, i knew that already i just find it very coincidental that wording has been used dont you? as other news organisations use the word fans and avoid weighting the emotional aspect.

Well, I find the BBC article a lot more offensive:

i generaly find all the reporting offensive. the media seems to want trouble, and i reacon the dutch guy is trying to paint other people in a bad light to cover up for his own fans. i seem to remember the chant to be "we've got our bicycles back". does make you wonder though where this so called experts come from. as far as know from fan circles english fans were mixing with others as much as anybody else. and topless drnking is hardly agressive.

why are you "offended" by it?

I'm not. But it's offensive towards British football fans b/c they're being described as hooligans 1 year before the WC has even started.

I wont be watching TV when the Hooligans World Cup is on-Sorry but the game has a reputation and any games in Munich then I will look to be out of the city.I hope the police are efficient in stopping these so called fans that cause trouble and dont ignore it like the other month with the Dynamo Dresden fans who trashed a Rest area/Service Station!The hype will be ridiculous as well.Soccer as any Sport is a game not life and death as many seem to think.

Dally, The police did not ignore it. They arrived just after the vandals left.

And the life and death thing?

Bill Shankly once quoted "Football is not just a matter of life and death. It is far more important than that"

i dont think he was referring to the fan's behaviour though...

No arrests were made as i understand-despite CCTV.Soccer has a poor reputation with its fans not just in England but in Italy, brazil, Argentina, Serbia, Holland, Australia...Add the stronger German beer to the Mix and i can see problems!

I couldnt give a stuff what some manager quoted.Sports are to enjoy not to get worked up over and trash and wreck other peoples property or evening etc.Soccer is overhyped as there are many other sports just as enjoyable to watch-and cheaper to watch live as well.Many Soccer fans seem to think going on experience that if you dont like Soccer then you are abnormal-Thank god I am abnormal as I wouldnt waste so much money for 90 minutes of watching a 0-0 draw! Those that are going enjoy it tho.

hmmm i seem to recall this being a common trend by english people!! can anyone spot the obvious mistakes? In the first post these BRITS i presume would be english so please call them such. Just as Tim Henman is english unless he is playing in the Davis Cup.

It is almost amusing that Great Britain gets called England by the english until they start talking about English hooligans then suddenly they realise there is abit of land stuck on the side and the top of England, and out comes the tripe of BRITISH hooligans!!
It is pathetic that the only time they use the british word is when they talk about hooligans!!

where exactly were the welsh and the scots in this episode? they certainly would not have gone to Lens to watch England! No we were in St. Etienne where we are STILL welcomed back by the locals because we were so friendly and such good fun!! (thats 7years later, some scots have even married french women they met there during the world cup) And in a Paris bar scottish supporters even stopped a famous swedish tv presenter being beaten up by her boyfriend - Stan Collymore, who just happens to be english!! (not sure why he was in the bar and not the carpark as usual though!!)

rflmfao - oh get a grip of urself for christs sake!! the "Hooligans World Cup" - i mean jeez!! ok so there is too much trouble atttached to many footballl games but to ignore the other side of the world cup and purely concentrate on that aspect is only doing urslef a disservice.


oh and its FOOTBALL not soccer. "Sports are to enjoy not to get worked up over" ok so let me get this straight - if you are to enjoy something you must have some emotion or feeling for the sport but you say it is unacceptable to have a particularily strong emotion for a sport. ok so where do you draw the line? are you allowed to smile as a player scores a try? can you cheer and clap your hands when the conversion goes over? can you talk with your friends about the bad tactics of the coach (this would suggest a lingering emotion after the end of a game) if, as you say, we should not be sad at a result then it is equally not possible to be happy at a result(in other words - to enjoy the sport) so i dont quite understand what you mean. can you explain for me/ us?

For fans to see their team lose and go on the rampage as HAS happened is hardly good.Enjoy means have fun, laugh etc was the angle I was going from.I know Soccer fans have been attacked by visiting games with their kids by opposing fans and in the last 10 years as well!Not to take it too heart and go on the rampage when you lose as some have done in Soccer.

Football/Footy is not exclusive to Association Football.Football/Footy for example is in America isAmerican Football and in the Aussie Rules area (Melbourne/Adelaide)and Rugby League in New South Wales/Queensland area as well as some parts of Yorkshire.Just because Football means Association Football to you doesnt mean it applys to everyone.Football/Footy is Rugby to me.Soccer is Association Football.

what you really think they are fighting because of the football? come on actually use that brain rather than revert back to the stereotypical dumb aussie football player! these are people who happen to enjoy watching football much as you enjoy watching your version of football. However they also like to fight. they like the adrenelin rush when they see a riot. they like it when their endorphins and seritonin levels increase after being hit. these people actually enjoy fighting. For some it gives them the excitment that their normal life lacks, for others they are just nasty people and they like to hurt others and some are just stupid and follow the crowd.

it is common for rival football supporters to have each others mobile numbers and email addresses and they will call one another before the game to arrange where to have the fight. Usually this is arranged a good way away from the ground so that the police will have poor resources in the area that they meet: and so that it takes longer for the cops to get there. often it will be during the actual game - they care more about fighting than watching the team that they affiliate themselves to.

dont be naive and pompous about footballs hooligans. educate urself about it if you want to comment so strongly upon it.

i don't think i've ever met anybody less pompous than Dally M
i reckon you're the pompous one, scots geeza

ive met both and neither are pompous.

ffs scots geeza is a dundee united fan there are few things less pompous than this!!!

There are many decent people who like Soccer or are Soccer fans probably as you are but others arent and whats to stop what you have posted above occuring in the World Cup?I knew a Leeds Utd fan in the mid 90s went to games with Manchester Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool (Top teams who you would normally want to watch) and every time Bus Windows were put through by stones etc or Fans Spat on etc.Rivalry i have no problem with but that is going way too far!These instances occured directly outside the ground!Whats to stop England Hooligans fighting with dutch or German or other Rival hooligans in an area of Munich or another city in Germany? It happened in France easily enough and with little border controls now I can see its alot easier for Dutch, Italian hooligans to make a date so to speak.The English its harder but still manage to cause probs.

Blimey, small world! I think I saw him at an airport once.

topsy - read my posts they aint pompous, they are accurate!! - hmm ok that may have been close now though!!

Dally M - make no mistake there will be riots in germany during the world cup. i wasnt arguing against that, just your purile comments.

i predict -
england v germany
england v holland
england v italy
england v french maybe?
germany v holland
germany v ex yugo states
germany v turkey
holland v italy

the rest should be ok but argentinians might cause some hassle but unlikely, the czechs normal want some action too and cause they are so close this time they might come in big enough numbers to be able to "bring it" this time.

hmmm forgot all about that post of urs Dally. more rubbish continues to flow onto this topic from ur keyboard. "one time at..." yeah we have all seen the film we know what happens next - something about a flute - well the tune ur playing is a poor one. " i once knew a guy who had rocks thrown at his bus. hmm west ham fans - among the worst in england. leeds v man u rivalry - hatred between the towns and teams is massive. yet again these are all people choosing to be involved in violence. this does not mean that football is a bad sport. nor should it mean that people should'nt get excited about it.

in euro 96 in england - scotland holland england and switzerland were all in the same group.

prior to the england holland game there were mass riots
prior to the england scotland game there were mass riots

however prior to the scotland holland game their were parties, in the ground both sets of fans sat together with zero violence

the riots happened because there were people who fitted into all of the categories i mentioned in a previous post and old historical differences and feuds were used as excuses to fight and riot. yet again football was not the cause but was the vehicle that brought these people together. (the dutch and english in one sense and the scots and the dutch in another.)

There is a really wicked and evil side of me which would secretly like to see Germany vs. Turkey

they've played before. no problems. there will probably be some fighting but mass riots (please define) i doubt. the germany is going to be full of police both their own and from other nations. i bet they'll introduce strong boarder patrols and spot checks within the 30 kilometre zone. there wasnt any stress when england played germany here so why sould ther be next time?

I get the impression that some people seem to think that the entire city will be trashed and that the only safe thing to do is leave Munich or live in a nuclear bunker for the duration of the competition.

There will almost definitely be some problems but I don't think there will be thousands of fans rampaging through the city destroying everything in their path. The way some people describe it I think it might be safer to go and spend the World Cup in Baghdad.

You admit there is likely going to be crowd problems in 2006!There is great rivalry between England and most Euro nations-hyped even more by the Xenophobic ENGLISH Press.If you read properly i have said many Soccer fans are normal obedient law obiding citizens but why does Soccer attract these Hooligans like no other Sport?I have been to other sports Events with 95.000 or so other people andno problem and felt safe-I cant say i feel the same about a Soccer World Cup Game!

Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket, Aussie Rules, Baseball, Ice Hockey, Handball all get many thousands of people to their top games and usually very little trouble.You always get one or two idiots as ever.I hope people enjoy the WC next year but I hope the hooligan element stay away and dont spoil it for the true fans.

Does Soccer and the Police work together enough?Should alcohol be banned from stadiums?How do you stop a known thug travelling from Holland, Serbia or Italy here when we have no border controls?It doesnt take Hundreds of fans to cause a problem.Munich is a safe city and the Police are strong but I cant say the same about Berlin, Frankfurt , leipzig, hamburg etc

the engish press isnt that anti foreigner but it knows that cheap shots at foreigners can be taken as jokes and are liked by the mass public. FIFA and interpol and individual governments and police federations work extremely closely together, which you would know if YOU bothered you ass to check it out before posting such drivvle about being scared of the hooligans in the world cup.

my comments about expected fighting between rival fans i would say is accurate. in the last euro championship english fans on the whole did very well at minimising the fighting. so as long as each nations sup[porters does that then it will be an amazing and peaceful world cup.

gideon - i did slightly exaggerate "large groups of people fighting" into "mass riots" - i beg ur forgivness in a most humble manner

you did nothinhg more than the media will do next year.

I ask again how the Police and FIFA are going to stop known Hooligans travelling from Italy, Holland etc to Germany when we have no border controls to even check who is coming into Germany and why.I know the Police and FIFA work together but my question is"Is this enough?" It amazes me that the Hooligans in England still manage to travel and cause so much problem when the Police know who these people are often.
I have seen Soccer Hooligans-20 of them on the rampage in a small town in Northern England-Windows Smashed, Road signs Ripped off and Cars vandalized.They had no opposition but just too much alcohol, energy etc after a game in a semi Pro League.Its a frightening scene as you dont know whats going to happen next.20 or 200 or 2000 it doesnt matter.

DM they will probably bring in the boarder controls agian just for the world cup. i believe belgium/holland did the same for the euros, it is allowed under the shenenegen (sp?) agreement. france has also done it a couple of times. also watchout for increased stopping of cars with rental or foriegn plates - or any mini van full of males - within the 30 kilometre boarder zone patrolled by the bgs.

Good to hear but i havent heard of this.Thanks.Whats the average price anyways for a ticket?I doubt its cheap sadly.Will there be a big screen put up anywhere in munich for fans that dont have a ticket?

DM, getting a ticket is almost impossible, not matter what they cost. There will be big screens up, but the police are very apprehensive about such gatherings as they are not subject to the same security checks as the stadiums and their surroundings and are possibly even more prone to violence due to the easy availability of alcohol and the impossibility of separating the fan groups.

cos england will lose next time and we all know what an english fan in a bad mood is capable of.

The official allocation to participating clubs is between 3 and 5 thousand tickets per game. The England supporters club setup a special membership scheme where they allowed only 25,000 members all of whom were checked to try and eliminate the hooligan element. The allocation goes only to these members.

The majority of the problems will probably be the fans who come over and don't have/can't get hold of tickets.