Life as an Asian in Germany

Hello!

Are German's tolerant of asians living in Geramany? My wife is asian and I am caucasian. Her college German professor indicated that she may stick out like a sore thumb, and that her and my two young children may experience intolerance to some degree.. He did say that most of the racism/intolerance would be in the east, and possibly in smaller towns. He also said he would not take his wife to life in Germany (his wife is asian). I know he has good intentions and wouldn't try to purposely scare her, which is why I am now concerned.

My wife and I are seriously considering moving to Germany to both obtain graduate degrees. We are both still young, and have two babies. She is asian, and since speaking with her college German language professor, she is now quite concerned about moving to Germany for her sake and our children's sakes.

I am quite surprised by those assertions, because it was my impression that many (not all) Germans go out of their way to portray that they are tolerant of foreigners possibly due to war guilt(?). Furthermore, my family and I visited Germany twice in the past two years and not once did we ever detect any hint of racism. Even in the former East Germany, in places such as Liepzip and Dresden. I know visiting Germany is different than living there, which is why I am posing this question.

We both live in Southern California (USA), and there is a fairly large asian population here. Im not asking whether or not there is any racism... obviously, there are always going to be intolerant individuals in every culture (i know some asians who hate white people); however, I am asking if an asian person living in Munich or any other large city in West Germany can expect to live a relatively peaceful and fruitful life, or if its just a bad idea in general for a person of asian decent to move to Germany?

gururise

Germany seems to be fairly open to Asians, but as I am a caucasian, I can only say that second hand by the students that I have that are Asian and there have been many.

asia what:

brown : indians, pakis, srilankans etc
skeweyed: chinese, japenese, koreans, etc
fatnosed: indonesians, malaysians

??

Obviously not a German and working hard at not being a human!

hi, im indonesian living in munich for more than a year now and have to say that im having a good time here so far.There are many asians in munich and i can even buy asian /indonesian stuff easily cos there are quite many asian shops too here So far i never experienced, heard or seen any racism or intolerance acts against asians , so ... yea im quite happy here

@ orgasm : indonesians and malaysians are fatnosed???

I am Malaysian Chinese, IMHO, Germans (especially old german lady) are much much more hostile to us compare to US or UK. I think thing get worst if you have kids :-( This comment is based on my own experience living in Munich for merely 8 months...

Kongweng, Germans seem much more hostile to everyone, not just Asians. It's the way they interact with people, it's not necessarily racism.

As a Chinese (born Canadian), my first year in Germany was full of a combination of blunt staring, and weird strangers "attacking" me to take me out for a cappucino(for some reason it was always cappucino?).
Eventually, I learned its not me...its them...they are just like that. Somehow, blunt staring is a hobby of their's and I have learn that giving them the once over (the head to toe scan - the "what the fuck are you wearing look") stops the staring pretty quick and makes them feel humilated.
I have never been attacked racially here in Munich, (only in Berlin), or discriminated against. Bi-racial relationships are sort of rare, but not uncommon. The only concern is that there are a lot of mail order brides in Germany, and hopefully people will not judge her at first glance.
Honestly I thought i hated this country, but its grown on me day by day. Its a great place to raise a family, and the quality of living is very comfortable. Its quiet, small, and VERY safe (safe enough for a girl to walk around town at 3am without any fear)

Good luck.

Say... do you want a cappucino!?

I think a lot of what might be considered discrimination elsewhere is just is naïve clumsiness here. I had an argument with an (east) German once, she said that she would find nothing wrong with going up to a black person at a party and telling them she really liked the particular tone of his skin. They sure are big gawpers, I notice it and I don’t look dramatically different from anyone else on the street so I think staring/being stared at is normal here, sometimes the look is so intense that I have the feeling the other person must know me from somewhere. On the other hand, German women have told me that staring is the German form of annoying public harassment from guys so maybe it depends what sort of gawping it is. In any case, it doesn’t seem to go much further than that.

I can't speak for Munich, but I commute between the US and Hamburg. Speaking as an American male of East Asian descent, I think your wife will have it easier on the aggressive staring thing that I do. You should see the looks I get when I walk around town with my blonde German girlfriend. There's still more of a gut-level reaction towards minority male - white female relationships than the other way around in my opinion.

For example, the movie Hitch with Will Smith was cast with a white female romantic lead, until the studios killed the idea saying it would turn off the American audience. They got a latina instead to fill the role.

The really interesting looks we get are from other German women, whose eyes seem to glitter in interest for some odd reason, like they're watching some kind of interracial porno in real life.

On the men's parts, it's mostly curiousity. Once in a while, you'll get really angry/disgusted body language from an older German.

That's the day to day stuff. I've also had problems renting on my own from German landlords (I always end up renting from other foreigners for some reason ) and the like, but since I'm not a full-time everyday in Germany ex-pat, I can't really tell you what it would be like to grind it out everyday in the country.

I saw 2 tiny Asian women sitting on a big fat German's lap at a "county fair" once. And this is not in Phuket but in Germany, somewhere near Frankfurt. So, the general view of (south-eastern) Asians are the mail-order brides which I connect with the stares I get ALL the time. It is worse when I am walking next to a Caucasian, like the time I went to a garden show with a German friend's mother. She felt the stares and said that these people must be thinking that I'm a maid! It annoys me but I tell myself that if people are ignorant, let them be, there's nothing I can do. Nowadays, it's slightly better because I don't make eye-contact anymore, I don't know/care if they are staring (actually, more like ogling).

Here, I will ALWAYS be treated as a foreigner; in UK or US, at least I felt I "belong", even in France because of the high number of Vietnamese immigrants (??) At the end of the day, home IS the only place where you will always be a first-class citizen!

Being a native German with Indian ancestry, I can say I've had absolutely no problems here. As an Asian looking person I've encountered more racial problems in the UK than in Germany.

It does, however, have a lot to do with the language, imho. Obviously I speak fluent, accent-free German, and once I open my mouth people forget what I look like. Not sure though how people here would react if you don't speak a word of German.

I have a female friend whose parents are Korean but she herself was born & grew up in Germany. She speaks PERFECT no-accent German but she gets stares/hassles too! I think Asian women get more "hassles" here.

Is she hot?

Seriously, perhaps she's interpreting something that isn't there – pretty girls are always nice to look at, regardless brown/black/white/yellow…

Amen to that!

"look at" and "stare at" are VERY different

Gururise
Like you say there are racists in every country.
Try not to worry about it. Because if you look for racism (in any country) you will surely find it.
It sounds to me like you have your head screwed on right. I do hope your wife gets past her concerns. Give Germany a go its great.
And yes you will be stared at because in Germany and much of continental Europe people stare. At everyone! Its not personal and you get used to it. Just stare back, smile wildly or ignore it.

I'm a girl of eastern background myself (S.Korean) and I plan on moving to Germany in the hopes of learning the language in near future. Which city/area in Germany would you say is most tolerant of different racial backgrounds? I will be studying alone and I am 21, FYI.

Basically, there are two kinds of germans.

One who have visited foreign countries.
They are mostly(!) generous and open to other races. Probably, they know how it feels to be a foreigner in a different country. They tend to be more friendly and see people from other races as fellow beings.

And the others who have never gone beyond german speaking boundary.
These people are generaly hostile and donot think that others are human beings. They tend to be more rigid and its quite obvious just in case you happen to make eye contacts with them.

But, Germans are very conservative and have a closed circle, which is not easy to penetrate.

And it could prove nightmarish, if you try knocking at the pubs and discos in Munich.

I was trying to find the old posts of such experiences, but could not trace them.

I've noticed that people stare here a lot too. I'm white, ordinary looking but I've noticed stares a few times. One time in particular a guy outside the opera was staring at me for at least a minute. As I was on my own and waiting for someone, I noticed. The guy looked my down and then up again so slowly and blatantly that I looked directly at his face and waited for his eyes to meet mine with a furious, what do you think you're doing, look. He looked surprised but not embarrassed and nonchalantly looked away.

I've noticed people I know and am with staring at people too. Seems like it's just not considered rude here.

what I have experienced are something more than staring, I would say bullying and threatening
We were forced to move out from the apartment, preventing to move freely and etc, police has been called twice but was told that they can only act if someone get hurt, I know I could exercise my legal right to seek assistance from laywer but what for, I would rather spend my time and energy to seek opportunity elsewhere so that I could Germany

My Racist experience...

1) Few years ago in Karlsplatz an old lady stalking me. At first i thought perhaps she would like to tell me how she love asia after visiting blah blah but instead while i was queueing at the apotheke cashier she hurriedly rush in and said to me " This is Germany...We dont welcome asian LEAVE NOW!!!" I was so pissed off then since no one is willing to do anything as everyone in the apotheke heard that. At last i told her YOU ARE CRAZY and left the place.

2) My yugoslovakian neighbour who has been staying in my neighbour seems to have a problem with Asians. After staying in the area for 3 years, one of my neighbour introduce me to her and i couldnt believe what came out of her hole for our first conversation. She said "YOu chinese eat dogs" and immediately i asked her how did she know. She said i saw it from the TV and i replied ahhh you are TV frau!!! My neighbour and my partner were there and had helped saying that i have a silky terrier in singapore and she was with me for the entire 16 years. I love dogs and cats!!! However i know that even now after half a year , whenever she is walking with her dog and if her dog gets to me. She would yell so loud as though her dog is approaching a monster.

There are nice and rotten people everywhere in this world. I am just glad that up to now i have met more nice germans or foreigners than rotten ones.

Yeah, everyone knows it's the Koreans who eat dogs

I have actually heared the most racist comments towards Asians coming from Asians themselves! Indian people saying racist things about Chinese people, Chinese people saying racist things about Japanese, Japanese saying racist things about Koreans and Caucasians, Koreans about Japanese.. I don't know a single European who has any problems with Asians. You must have just had exceptionally bad luck. My advice to you is to just ignore it, most people here are very interested in Asia and its people.

@MB

You don't know any Europeans who are racist towards Asians? Which bubble are you living in? Heard about the Turks here in Germany? They're at least 95% Asian!

*sigh* My daily fight with Ulysses. I'm getting too old for this, you know..
I meant Asia-Pacific and South Asia. As far as I know Turkey is part of Europe as much as Georgia and the Ukraine. It's bloody obvious what I meant I would say. If there were as many Chinese people as Turkish people working and living in Germany , you would have the same problem. Turkey is an European neighbour, hence the resentments of a few. Not to mention fear of loosing something, let it be the Überfremdung, a job, the religion..

@MB

So, once there're as many Indians and Chinese as Turks in Germany it would eb a problem? I think you've just proven my point.

Btw, Europe ends at the Bosporus. Seeing as 95% of Turkey is on the other side of that, it is considered part of Asia. Only a handful of industrialists looking for cheap labour and another market and the US for political reasons see it otherwise.

@MB

Criticising and racism are two different thing. I know english that speak ill of germans or germans speak ill of french. Those situations that i had experienced as shown above are purely racism.

Om Suasti Astu

What point, Ulysses? That people become racist towards nationalities that start posing a threat to them because of their large numbers? I didn't read that in your response, if you meant that I have to agree with you. A Vietnamese guy here in Munich I got to know kept going on about the sh*tty Ausländer and how Bavaria should put up more restrictions agains foreigners and when I complained and ask what the hell his problem is, he replied:"Jeder hat doch Angst um sein Hab und Gut". (..)

@Andi101

I just wrote to Ulysses and mentioned a guy from Vietnam I got to know here at the Munich Marathon. He got adopted at the age of 12 by a Bavarian family, he was a boat refugee. His whole family came to Bavaria and are living here today. I have never heared so many racist comments towards Asian people as I did coming from him. An Indian friend of mine has nothing good to say about Chinese people, in fact he actually went and reported the boyfriend of a Chinese girl living illegally in their hostel to the authorities. A Chinese girl I know doesn't even want to take the word Japan in her mouth.. I could go on and on.

I am really sorry for what had happend to you, but just ignore it! Come to a TT event and you will see that people - most of them Europeans - will accept you and welcome you with open arms! I have a white skin and have also had to deal with terrible racism here in Germany. My "mistake" was not being German. It can really happen to anybody. Chin up!

Edit:

What does this mean?

Om Suasti Astu" - a Balinese Hindu greeting, "Peace In Your Heart, And In The World." From Sanskrit "Om Swasti Astu"

Nice.

@, majorbummer

What happened to your plans to move & live in India. Are they heading somewhere?

Come again?

Andy101: Huh?


Andy101: Gosh, you really do have a way with words...

As to the original OP: I can't really comment on what life in Germany is like for Asians. As others have pointed out, Germans do tend to stare. However, this is not something reserved for Asians. I'm white and usually blend in but the staring starts as soon as I open my mouth. It seems that people here were never taught it's rude to stare -- and like to get a good look when they see someone who is not just like them.
Having said all that, as a white woman I remember getting stared at a hell of a lot in Asia...

dont think that the racisim topic is quite valid in munich cant speak about the rest of germany, but it is no different from other countries. you will meet the odd jerk here and there, but the majority are fine with it i feel.

of course staring and the sort cannot be helped if you dont look like them and stick out, this is not specific to germany. anywhere in the world i feel if you dont look like the native populance you are bound to get the once over or so.

Most importantly i would like to point out that anyone can give instances of racisim, but they are the only one or two instances that should not sour their or your entire 2,3,4 .. years that you might plan to live here, merely a drop in the ocean

Staring is a very very minute subset of a life in a country. The treatment is what it matters. Probably a white male/female in a country like India gets a lot of stare, But are they never undertreat you, if not royally.

i am a 24year old, Indian, female n been here for 2 and a half years from a student to a waitress to an employee...i didnt see any inclination of racism of any sort all along. sure u get people stare at u but what harm could that do!
If u r conscious of a couple of jokes that people make..mostly through an honest mistake..then it will affect u but if u joke along with it or are witty enough to snap back then Munichs the place to be!! U will love it here.

The plans are only for in a couple of years. First move will be to go over to have a look at India first. But yes, they are definitely still there! I am eating curry 4 days a week already.

@Majorbummer.

"A Chinese girl I know doesn't even want to take the word Japan in her mouth" I believe you understand what happen during WWI in China and South East Asia.

As for the Indian that hate the chinese, i believe he was being rejected by a chinese lady. (Jealousy)

Don't feel sorry about me Majorbummer, i am just contributing this since someone ask about how WE asian feel about living here. Thanks for the TT invitation since i am not a clubbing person For sure I am always proud being an asian. My maternal side i am peranakan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peranakan and paternal side my grandfather is from Guangzhou china. Infact my partner is caucasian German.

@Kay- oops i mean Yugoslavian but have been living here for 25 years or more.

@Anemone-thanks for bringing that to my attention. "who has been staying in my neighbour" I mean Who happen to be staying in my neighbourhood.

"i couldnt believe what came out of her hole" i am not using british english here and since she is such a Nazi bitch using hole suits her best!

"Having said all that, as a white woman I remember getting stared at a hell of a lot in Asia..." mhh perhaps you are attracted to asian men! anyway staring is rude regardless of nationalities, race and religion.

Om Suasti Astu

Thank you for all the responses! Based upon what you all have been saying, things dont seem too different than the USA. Some really good comments. I understand that no matter where you go, there will be jerks. There are jerks here in the USA too, and I have experienced them.

I have another question. My wife's German language professor said that right after the fall of the Berlin wall, there was alot of crime and anger directed towards minorities in the former East. He said it was really bad... so bad that many homes were burned down and crimes committed. He made it sound like it was very widespread anger directed towards minorities in the East after the wall fell.

Again, I am quite surprised by this, because I never heard of any such events occuring. I have only heard that many Jewish people from the former USSR migrated to Germany after the fall of communism to avoid persecution in the former USSR. Does anyone remember these events or do you have any pointers to news coverage of these events? Were they as widespread and directed as indicated?

After the fall of the wall there were indeed many many many such atrocious attacks, in the former East especially against the Vietnamese (I remember one incident when a whole block of flats was surrounded by Eastern neo-nazis/thugs/skinheads/hooligans and set alight with hundreds of Vietnamese inside, scared of losing their lives. Hundreds of locals were watching and chanting songs encouraging the assaulters and the police didn't seem to want to get involved either) and in the former West against anyone from behind the falled iron curtain. There will always be a stupid minority of brainless individuals who will use any oppurtunity to let out their anger at belonging to the bottom of society instead of doing something to change their own fate. But you should also keep in mind that the vast majority of Germans had tears in their eyes and were lining up the streets to watch as the thousands of east Germans poured down the streets in their Trabis (East German cars). There were thousands of cars parking in the area I lived in and all of them had bags full of food and champagne attached to the mirrors as welcome gifts. This country is as safe as anywhere else, if not safer.

oops, fallen not falled...

I was surprised with the way I was able to mix with several germans despite the fact that I cannot speak the language. Natually you are going to get idiots especially bouncers who wont let you into certain clubs.

I have a couple of good german friends who took me for who I am as a person hence the reason why I often come back to visit.

Ravski, Probably you look like a german!
Btw are you back in town?

I came across this while browsing about Life in Germany. I am a Malaysian Chinese moving to Munich with my British husband next week.

I think racism exists in every country, not only in Germany. I have lived in Thailand, Canada, Australia and many other SEA countries.

For Germans to dislike Asians is a "laugh" to me as tons of Germans who go over to Thailand to look for women every year.

I personally find that a person is usually racist if they have never been out of their motherland before. Those who are educated, more open minded (modern thinking) and well travelled tend to be less biaised.

Pardon me, but how does one look German? My husband is British but has been mistaken for German many times.

If any of you are not racist, I would not mind meeting some of you to socialise and broaden my circle of friends.

I am not sure about the racism bit...but yeah, I do get a lot of stares!! (i am of Indian origin)..Firsty it used to bother me a bit but then I decided to do one of the following 1)stare back and smile if he is reaaaly good looking ... hehe or 2) give a strange look for a second and then completely ignore by looking away!...
oh, its only in germany that ive seen more women stare at me than men...arrgggg...gives me the creeps...

Oh my! You make it sound like you are expecting 95 % of the people on this site to be "racist", but hoping for a few that are not...